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So I read this article about 'Hurtcore' on Vice. According to the article:

Hurtcore is a fetish for people who get aroused by the infliction of pain, or even torture, on another person who is not a willing participant

It's mainly CSAM but adults can also be subject to the production of hurtcore material. The article focuses on the perpetrator Matthew Falder:

Falder's main drive was to cause suffering and humiliation in others

Among the many cases he was involved in, he contacted a girl, managed to get her to send nudes to him and used that to extort more and more extreme CSAM from her until she ended up in hospital from an overdose.

The article further states that Falder's "particular preference was for seeing children in positions of degradation and pain".

The main difference between this hurtcore, that dwells on the dark web, and the violent and degrading porn that is on the clearnet is one of degree only in my eyes. You still get CSAM on the regular porn channels. The point is still to arouse the viewer through degrading and by inflicting pain, and sometimes torture, on women on the regular porn channels. Both the victims of Falder and the victims in 'regular' pornography are not willing participants as they have to first be coerced through some means to participate in their own degradation and violation.

Most people who enjoy 'regular' porn still seem to agree that hurtcore is despicable. Partly because it's mainly children that's targeted. Partly because the means of coercion are more overt (blackmailing) than regular porn actresses being coerced through monetary compensation for their degradation. But maybe it's possible to argue for the abolishment of porn by starting in the revulsion that people seems to feel regarding hurtcore, and translating that into empathy for women in 'regular' porn.

Any thoughts on this?

So I read [this article](https://archive.ph/SXkIq) about 'Hurtcore' on Vice. According to the article: > Hurtcore is a fetish for people who get aroused by the infliction of pain, or even torture, on another person who is not a willing participant It's mainly CSAM but adults can also be subject to the production of hurtcore material. The article focuses on the perpetrator Matthew Falder: > Falder's main drive was to cause suffering and humiliation in others Among the many cases he was involved in, he contacted a girl, managed to get her to send nudes to him and used that to extort more and more extreme CSAM from her until she ended up in hospital from an overdose. The article further states that Falder's "particular preference was for seeing children in positions of degradation and pain". The main difference between this hurtcore, that dwells on the dark web, and the violent and degrading porn that is on the clearnet is one of degree only in my eyes. You still get CSAM on the regular porn channels. The point is still to arouse the viewer through degrading and by inflicting pain, and sometimes torture, on women on the regular porn channels. Both the victims of Falder and the victims in 'regular' pornography are not willing participants as they have to first be coerced through some means to participate in their own degradation and violation. Most people who enjoy 'regular' porn still seem to agree that hurtcore is despicable. Partly because it's mainly children that's targeted. Partly because the means of coercion are more overt (blackmailing) than regular porn actresses being coerced through monetary compensation for their degradation. But maybe it's possible to argue for the abolishment of porn by starting in the revulsion that people seems to feel regarding hurtcore, and translating that into empathy for women in 'regular' porn. Any thoughts on this?

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13 comments

"Hurtcore"? Are you fucking kidding me? It's called sadism. (Not mad at you OP.)

I can't stand these cutesy names for this heinous shit.

[–] RawSienna 15 points Edited

Everything’s filtered through a corrupting lens now to sanitize and normalize. And yeah, I hate the goofy fucking names they give everything. “-core” or “-play”. Fuck off. It’s intended to normalize depravity and numb society. Frankly, it’s psychological warfare.

It is serial killer shit and we must pretend it is as normal as liking cunnilingus. Fuck them!

The cutesy names are an attempt at normalizing what is today generating automatic revulsion in most people. The evolution of porn, since it was first possible to photograph and film women, has only gone in one direction: the general acceptance of more and more depravity in regards to abuse of women and children. We must start rolling back that acceptance, and I believe we can do that by appealing to the automatic revulsion that exists today for things like 'hurtcore' and point to how the same mechanisms are at play in what is considered acceptable today.

There is not and will never be any empathy for women in pornography. I'm glad that men care when hurtcore involves children but they will never care when it involves women.

I'm sure there will always be certain groups of men that delight in the degradation of women through pornography. But I consider that the legislative war to grant protection for vulnerable women in pornography is over what the majority considers acceptable. And their acceptance has only gone in one direction since the modern inception of porn: to more and more vile abusive acts. It should be possible to appeal to the majority's sense of fairness and empathy by pointing out 1) the direction we're heading to is stuff like 'hurtcore', 2) the same mechanisms of coercion and abuse in stuff like 'hurtcore', that is considered revulsive by today's standards, is also at play in the regular porn industry that is considered acceptable today.

We have been able to roll-back majority acceptance of coercive and abusive behaviors in the past, such as colonialism and slavery. It should be possible to do the same when it comes to pornography (that is driving the spread of kink in society).

[–] nopenottoday 5 points Edited

That's true that we have been able to turn back things that were normally considered acceptable. But everything is just different when it comes to the things men do to women. Not much progress has ever been made in that department.

Everyday men still make movies where women are brutally killed in sexualized ways. Nobody thinks anything of it when a hooker is strangled on TV and left naked, for example. Men still write song lyrics that depict the brutal rape and murder of women, really nasty stuff- cutting their vaginas out, etc. This stuff is not mainstream, but it's out there and no one bats an eye when they hear it. There is some very misogynistic mainstream stuff like rap music. Nobody minds at all.

It's astonishing to me how it's still socially acceptable for a man to go on tirades full of misogynistics slurs like bitch and cunt, in a world where words mean so much that people's whole lives have been ruined for calling someone else a racial slur. I can't imagine a world where a man loses his job for calling a woman a cunt or a whore. In the same vain I can't imagine a world where men ever give up their pornography or even where women expect their men to give up pornography, as women are so beaten down and brainwashed. And I especially can't imagine it being forced by law in America -though there are some countries that have blocked pornography sites throughout their whole nation. All of those countries are still horribly patriarchal though.

Yeah, it's hard to imagine a world where the woman who gets the 'whore' archetype stamped on her gets any empathy to the point that what's done to her is rightly called out as the abuse that it is. But I'm still convinced that it's our imperative to imagine that world in order to strive for it. The fight must be multipronged and creating media that addresses this is one approach. Right now the sexploitation-positive 'feminists' are making media to portray the 'whore' as a cool girl, something for young women to aspire to. Even if their heart happens to be in the right place (I'm sure there are some gullible ones out there among the reclaim-the-[slur] movements) and they try to humanize her, they fail miserably by not addressing that what's done to her is actually dehumanizing abuse.

These people need their names, photos, and what they do to people and jerk off to posted in full on every social media website. If they have a problem with that they shouldn’t be trying to justify their fetish.

Men are addicts. Deep down they know this stuff is messed up. They're just not willing to give it up. They hide that nugget of self-awareness away when its inconvenient. The only thing I have seen that's truly got men to question porn as an industry has been the threat of PIED, education about addiction etc. When they accept the message that the porn industry hurts them, only then are they sometimes receptive to the message that it hurts performers too.

Yes, they are addicts. And some women too. The anti-porn lobbies in my country have tried to argue abolishment through the damage it does to its users, such as PIED as you mention, but they've mainly been laughed at by the mainstream 'sex positive' 'feminists'. "Some can't handle their alcohol and some can't handle their porn use, but that's not an argument for banning either of those", the counter argument goes. They believe in women's right to voluntarily expose themselves to degradation and violation, and have no problem exploiting these women's vulnerability which says a lot about their so called 'feminism'.

But if it can be argued, to legislators that at least must have a veneer of empathy for its citizens, that the same mechanisms of coercion and abuse that today makes 'hurtcore' automatically revulsive, is also at play in regular pornography, I think that would make a stronger case for abolishing it. The trick is to ride on the inherent revulsion in what is now illegal and taint the regular industry with it to drive that into the illegal territory as well.

Otherwise, the push from our ideological enemies is that they want to ride on todays acceptance of hardcore pornography to make this 'hurtcore' and other paraphilias more acceptable to the public. The tug-of-war for the overton window on who gets empathy for abusive behavior is waged by invoking feelings for what is acceptable/unacceptable today and then nudge it in the direction you want. They want to nudge it into the territory that nobody gets empathy. We want to nudge it into the territory where everybody gets empathy and therefore legal protection for abusive behavior.

What is CSAM I assume the SA is sexual abuse?

It's Child Sexual Abuse Material. It's used instead of 'child porn', which is a term that hides the inherent abuse of it. Come to think of it, maybe we should start calling pornography as a whole for SAM, Sexual Abuse Material.