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Just a random thought. Submissive and Masochist just mean you're a people pleaser. Definition- People-pleasers are known for doing whatever it takes to make other people happy. In other words majority of these subs are just doing to make their abuser I mean dom partner happy. You're not really turned on by the abuse you think you do because your partner is. People pleaser have trouble defending and advocating themselves because they care way more about what other people happiness hence in turn making the susceptible to abuse. This type of behavior could be symptom of a mentally illness/condition like anxiety, depression and BPD which are very common alongside other mental illness are very common in the kink community. I had people pleasing tendencies myself that actually bothered me on the inside but I only did to satisfy others as well so I was able to make to that of proclaimed subs. That's all

Just a random thought. Submissive and Masochist just mean you're a people pleaser. Definition- People-pleasers are known for doing whatever it takes to make other people happy. In other words majority of these subs are just doing to make their ~~abuser~~ I mean dom partner happy. You're not really turned on by the abuse you think you do because your partner is. People pleaser have trouble defending and advocating themselves because they care way more about what other people happiness hence in turn making the susceptible to abuse. This type of behavior could be symptom of a mentally illness/condition like anxiety, depression and BPD which are very common alongside other mental illness are very common in the kink community. I had people pleasing tendencies myself that actually bothered me on the inside but I only did to satisfy others as well so I was able to make to that of proclaimed subs. That's all

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[–] VestalVirgin 13 points Edited

There definitely are male masochists for whom it is not about pleasing the women they ask to abuse them. I mean, women get paid to abuse men in the very specific ways those men want to be abused. It does not please most women to abuse men.

Though I am inclined to agree with you about femals "subs" who discovered their love for BDSM when a male partner demanded that they should.

[–] disco_metal 6 points Edited

There definitely are male masochists for whom it is not about pleasing the women they ask to abuse them. I mean, women get paid to abuse men in the very specific ways those men want to be abused. It does not please most women to abuse men.

Yeah, usually I reject the “oh no you see the sub is really the one in control” narrative, but in this situation I think it might apply

Having dated a submissive man I’m not sure this describes his personality well, as most of his sexuality focused on himself. He liked to “serve”, certainly, but primarily because that itself served his sexual fetish. He was an excellent lover but there was something missing in terms of connection and in retrospect I feel this was because he often viewed most non-sexual activities or interactions between adults also through a top/bottom lens (aka his fetish of submission).

The fetish is real and the people pleasers are real and women are vastly more likely to be people pleasers. They both come from an inferiority complex. People pleasing is a case of extreme self-doubt, to the point you can only imagine surviving by doing what you're told. The inferiority comes from a place of being abused, bullied, ostracized, etcetera to the point that you believe you are beneath others. Women are taught to doubt themselves more than men, which feeds into inferiority but also expresses it differently. For a pure fetishist, the fantasy he creates is also reclaiming control. He wants to direct the whole scene and have women cater to his fantasy world and he feels powerful in doing so. Channeling all the feelings of inferiority into something new obscures the original source of those feelings. He hides within himself. He and the maledom are two sides of the same coin. Maledom also has an inferiority complex - towards other men, not towards women. He redirects all his rage over his mistreatment from other men onto the woman, constructs a power fantasy that denies the source of his inferiority and even denies the inferiority itself.

BDSM is the ultimate coping mechanism.

I think there are masochists, but also think it tends to be a conditioned response to early abuse/ trauma and isn't healthy, at all. Pain and sexual pleasure can get wires crossed, and coping with childhood trauma can come out in sexual ways, to the point where men snicker about a woman having 'daddy issues' (and when I unpack the weight of the horror behind that statement, I sure as hell want to smack the smirk off of every damn man out there eager to reap the spoils of child abuse and neglect).

I don’t disagree except that I could see some people pleasers are turned on by pleasing people. Sexual pleasure isn’t automatically healthy.

I disagree. I was definitely turned on by my submission and enjoyed it during sexual activities. It wasn't just, "This is what my dom wants and I'll do it to make him happy."

That's why BDSM and kink can be hard to stop engaging in. It does feel enjoyable and good, like many things that aren't healthy for you.

A masochist is "a person who derives sexual gratification from their own pain or humiliation." (Oxford) This is very different to being a people pleaser. I don't think it's fair or helpful to conflate the two.

Masochists are motivated by their own desire for sexual pleasure, which often has nothing to do with pleasing anyone else. As is amply demonstrated by the penchant of some males for sissy porn, forced feminization, sissification, autogynephilia, transgenderism and sex acts in which they are on the receiving end of abuse and humiliation, many masochists are men/boys motivated by their own internally-generated libidos and drive to seek and obtain their own sexual gratification. These guys don't give a fuck about pleasing most of the people in their lives. Indeed, their desire to have masochistic sex in which they are submissive has caused many of these men to go out of their way to find special sexual partners and sex venues dedicated to their particular proclivities because their regular partners say "no way" and don't want that kind of behavior in their homes/bedrooms.

Traditionally, many men who are masochists have paid women to be dominatrixes.

Also, there are tons of people pleasers in the world who do not get sexual arousal and pleasure from sex acts or fantasies involving their own pain and humiliation, and who do not engage in or seek out any sexual "kink" activities with partners or by their lonesome. Lots of people pleasers are celibate; some have low or no libido. Sexually immature children who have not yet developed sexual feelings and capacity for sexual arousal and gratification can be people pleasers. So can nuns and other women who never or hardly ever have had sex with partners.

Sure, some people who are sexually submissive and/or masochists are probably people pleasers too. I imagine this would be the case for a number of women without a strong sense of self and self-esteem who are in sexual relationships with abusive and controlling bullies. As we all know, some women seek out such partners. But still, I think it does a disservice particularly to women, girls and meek, mild milquetoast men and boys to suggest that everyone who is - or seems - more focused on other people's happiness than on their own is a sexual submissive and masochist. Only some people who could be described as people pleasers manifest their people-pleasing in sexual ways by getting into the sorts of sub-dom relationships with partners that you seem to be suggesting go hand in hand with being a people pleaser.

A majority of women I know/have observed who fall into the trap of being people pleasers have acted out this tendency in non-sexual ways. For example, by displaying OTT devotion to being dutiful daughters and self-sacrificing, martyr-like mothers totally caught up in care of their children and other family members; being good students, teacher's pets and the boss's favorite, most trusted employee; being overly helpful to, focused on and soliticitious of friends and neighbors; going into various "helping professions;" getting involved in a host of altruistic and noble causes and activities in which they can play the role of savior (and often busy buddy too). Some girls and women express their drive to please others by being religiously pious and "pure" in ways that involve making a point of eschewing sexual activities and relationships altogether.

Eh, when I was into the scene there was the whole being swept off my feet aspect.