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Statement this morning from Josh Moon after the site was abruptly dropped by their host in Russia. It does not bode well for freedom of speech on the Internet, or in general, and will only serve to embolden far more authoritarian regimes. This little bird was the canary in the coal mine and now it's dead.

In my life, there is a family emergency. It has absolutely nothing to do with the forum drama. I cannot and will not elaborate further. There will be a week or more where I am completely unavailable and it is likely the site will go down during this time where I will not be able to bring it up.

I want to appraise our situation frankly.

Domain Registrar: Cloudflare was both our application-level DDoS mitigation and our domain registrar. They have given me a way to transfer my domains to another registrar. I do not know what registrar to send it to because I do not have faith in any company.

DDoS Mitigation: DDoS-Guard will drop us dropped us while I was writing this post. This meme about Russia being a free country is a joke. The US is a free country, but with no stewards to protect it. Without the US, there is no second best. I did not expect Cloudflare to crumple so quickly and I don't have a Plan C for DDoS mitigation.

Resource Allocation: I own IP addresses. Our IP allocation is from APNIC. APNIC is one of the 5 private companies which allocate Internet resources around the world. APNIC happens to be based out of Australia, which recently passed draconian censorship laws. There is an effort to get our RIR to revoke our allocation. This would be unprecedented in the history of the Internet, and considering China is in APNIC's region, an absolutely horrific standard which will echo throughout the upcoming decades. There is a non-zero chance of this happening.

Hosting: We have one host and I am looking at two more. It is likely that the host will give up too. The two hosts confident they can handle the Kiwi Farms are probably wrong. DDoS-Guard was confident they could handle the Kiwi Farms and said "bring it on" for less than 24 hours.

This is an organized attack. There is a coalition of criminals trying to frame the forum for their behavior. These criminals provide opportunities for professional victims to amplify their message. Journalists canonize the crimes as the behavior of the forum itself, which becomes the effective truth for the general public.

This is a machine that was built up formerly against 8chan and activates any time the cathedral wants to test the new fronts of its censorship. It is a massive amalgamation of various interests. I am one person. The financial limitations aren't even the real problem - the problem is, I am powerless alone. There is no amount of money I can throw to convince people to be brave and be free. This is just the reality of our country.

And what this machine will not accept is compromise. If I censored specific kinds of behavior, it would not matter. They don't want a specific thing censored. They want the average person to be able to speak in channels where only specific thoughts are acceptable.

More importantly, they want to make it so that no small organization can host a service which threatens the cathedral. It used to be that one guy with a good idea could open a platform and be a Tom Anderson, Mark Zuckerberg, Tom Fulp, Christopher Poole, or Richard Kyanka. Take note these names are all from 10+ years ago. There are no new groundbreakers online anymore because breaking ground in the new Internet's corporate parking lot is not allowed.

I do not see a situation where the Kiwi Farms is simply allowed to operate. It will either become a fractured shell of itself, like 8chan, or jump between hosts and domain names like Daily Stormer.

Essentially what he's saying is that Xi and Putin alike are cheering this right now. I know I will always remember where I was when the 9/11 of the Internet happened. And once again, I feel like the terrorists have won.

Statement this morning from Josh Moon after the site was abruptly dropped by their host in Russia. It does not bode well for freedom of speech on the Internet, or in general, and will only serve to embolden far more authoritarian regimes. This little bird was the canary in the coal mine and now it's dead. > In my life, there is a family emergency. It has absolutely nothing to do with the forum drama. I cannot and will not elaborate further. There will be a week or more where I am completely unavailable and it is likely the site will go down during this time where I will not be able to bring it up. > I want to appraise our situation frankly. > Domain Registrar: > Cloudflare was both our application-level DDoS mitigation and our domain registrar. They have given me a way to transfer my domains to another registrar. I do not know what registrar to send it to because **I do not have faith in any company.** > DDoS Mitigation: > DDoS-Guard will drop us dropped us while I was writing this post. This meme about Russia being a free country is a joke. **The US is a free country, but with no stewards to protect it. Without the US, there is no second best.** I did not expect Cloudflare to crumple so quickly and I don't have a Plan C for DDoS mitigation. > Resource Allocation: > I own IP addresses. Our IP allocation is from APNIC. APNIC is one of the 5 private companies which allocate Internet resources around the world. APNIC happens to be based out of Australia, which recently passed draconian censorship laws. There is an effort to get our RIR to revoke our allocation. This would be **unprecedented in the history of the Internet,** and considering **China is in APNIC's region, an absolutely horrific standard which will echo throughout the upcoming decades.** There is a non-zero chance of this happening. > Hosting: > We have one host and I am looking at two more. It is likely that the host will give up too. The two hosts confident they can handle the Kiwi Farms are probably wrong. DDoS-Guard was confident they could handle the Kiwi Farms and said "bring it on" for less than 24 hours. > This is an organized attack. There is a coalition of criminals trying to frame the forum for their behavior. These criminals provide opportunities for professional victims to amplify their message. **Journalists canonize the crimes as the behavior of the forum itself, which becomes the effective truth for the general public.** > This is a machine that was built up formerly against 8chan and activates **any time the cathedral wants to test the new fronts of its censorship.** It is a **massive amalgamation of various interests.** I am one person. The financial limitations aren't even the real problem - the problem is, **I am powerless alone.** There is no amount of money I can throw to convince people to be brave and be free. This is just the reality of our country. > **And what this machine will not accept is compromise.** If I censored specific kinds of behavior, it would not matter. They don't want a specific thing censored. **They want the average person to be able to speak in channels where only specific thoughts are acceptable.** > More importantly, **they want to make it so that no small organization can host a service which threatens the cathedral.** It used to be that one guy with a good idea could open a platform and be a Tom Anderson, Mark Zuckerberg, Tom Fulp, Christopher Poole, or Richard Kyanka. Take note these names are all from 10+ years ago. There are no new groundbreakers online anymore because breaking ground in the new Internet's corporate parking lot is not allowed. > **I do not see a situation where the Kiwi Farms is simply allowed to operate.** It will either become a fractured shell of itself, like 8chan, or jump between hosts and domain names like Daily Stormer. Essentially what he's saying is that Xi and Putin alike are cheering this right now. I know I will always remember where I was when the 9/11 of the Internet happened. And once again, I feel like the terrorists have won.

396 comments

I have no idea how to contact him to suggest this since the site has been blocked, but would it be possible for him to somehow team up with the group that runs Archive of Our Own? They use open source software that's hosted by GitHub and are funded entirely by donations. The whole reason AO3 was founded was to protect writers and other artists from censorship and its users are fiercely protective of it.

There's an open chat group on Telegram, and there's something called the Fediverse which I don't quite understand, but if you can figure that out his address is [at]josh[at]poa .st.

I don't know if that site would welcome teaming up with KF, though I imagine anything is worth a shot at this point. Fanfic fandom tends to be completely drunk on TRA kool-aid. But the software might be worth checking out.

An outrage. A site that caught sexual predators and zoosadists taken down by the very sickos they were meant to fight against. Hope it bounces back with the boldest fury.

And TRAs still assure people they have no power and are such a marginalized group

Anyone else here actually depressed or crying because of this news?

It's like the burning of the library of Alexandria, to be honest.

First Roe and now this. And we call this winning? Can't wait to see what 2023 holds.

I certainly agree that it is very disappointing, but if I were to be sincere your reaction seems a bit excessive.

I've been fighting back tears all day since the news broke. Not only just because of the "destruction of the library" but the underlying reasons for why it's all happening.

CHILDREN.

I try to just shake my head and ignore it sometimes but I can't, because CHILDREN are at risk.

You said it.

But how bad is it, really? Is the library down for good? Is Null going to do a massive surprise turnaround later and bring everything back up, deus ex machina, as some of the other commenters here are saying, or is that just Pollyannistic cope and the kiwi really genuinely extinct for good?

Some days I literally want to jump off a bridge and hope I get reincarnated in some alternate universe where women actually control everything.

We don't know yet. I don't even think Null knows yet. It's all a waiting game at this point.

Seconding that sentiment about the bridge, BTW.

Hi Lucas, it’s too late now, everyone knows what a huge creep you are. Women are calling you a “failed fart porn actor”, They’re talking about how you ran CatBoy ranch and how you assisted in making hormones for minors. Lucas, you’re acting like an abusive man because YOU ARE AN ABUSIVE MAN.

The horse has bolted, the cats out of the bag, the toothpaste is out of the tube.

I personally didn’t like Kiwi Farms that much but they really opened my eyes at how awful this ideology is. I’m sure it’ll be back up at some point.

To be honest, I have no idea what this post is about. Is Ovarit getting shut down? What is kiwi farms?

An edgy free-speech-absolutist website that was originally started just to make fun of Internet attention seekers, but at one point hosted damning information about TIMs, that they wanted to hide. One particularly militant TIM by the name of Keffals (birth name Lucas Roberts, TIM name "Clara Sorrenti") went completely nuclear on Kiwi Farms because they had all the details about his extremely bad behavior (which included getting his underage fans hooked on DIY hormones), so he started a scorched-earth campaign to have them shut down, and appears to have succeeded.

The concern about Ovarit is that Keffals' TIM allies feel emboldened right now, and have named Ovarit (and British GC forum Mumsnet) specifically as their next targets, because the kiwi for years was thought to be unslayable. Some TIMs are even thought to be lurking here and feeding screenshots to their mob. It's not just a question of whether or not KF did anything illegal (they didn't, not as far as I can tell). It's about moving the Overton window to exert control over what gets published at all and establishing TRAs as the arbiter of all truth everywhere and anywhere.

Great summary, thank you. Never think I can be shocked, but to think it might be the T that ultimately destroys any remotely 'free-ish' speech on the net and not any of the other shit that goes on is pretty mind blowing.

It’s amazing that the main argument to censor the internet is “there are pedophiles” and it turns out they’re the very ones looking to censor everyone else.

Over here, the idea is called "crab thinking": "If I don't have it, he shouldn't have it either!"

No, it’s like they’ve taken the reins of power, so instead of internet censorship stopping them from sexually victimizing others, they’ve claimed victimhood themselves and used censorship to shut down any attempt to stop them.

And powers that be just buy it…

If that’s not white male privilege I don’t know what is.

I anything to throw the scent off themselves.

The internet is turning into one big paid for ad anyway, at what point do we just switch it off, let them continue to cope and seethe by themselves whilst the rest of us live life?

Because they're invading physical IRL space too. They don't want us to be able to just live life. Since everything from them is projection, I'm going to go with they want to genocide us as they accuse us of "genociding" them.

If they only stayed online and played with each other's dicks, I wouldn't be so annoyed with them, but as soon as you know they're stealing our awards, our toilets ......

I don't even think "there be pedophiles" is the main argument for censoring the Internet anymore. It used to be "there be pirates" but now it's "there be MAGA semi-fascists" or "there be misgenderings" and of course the "MAGA semi-fascists" are the ones doing the misgendering of the pedophiles. Nobody even cares about pirates anymore. It's all about "hate speech" now.

Trump broke everyone's brain.

Which is why I’m basically a free speech absolutist. As soon as you start with “… but in this case we should censor,” it’s a slippery slope. By this I don’t mean rules you agree to in order to participate, as here; I mean trying to shut down, through the law or just mass pressure, something you think nobody should be able to say anywhere.

[–] itazurakko 23 points Edited

Trump broke everyone's brain.

Indeed. That's one of the worst things he did -- brought out this utter frenzy in people. In that small sense, "Trump Derangement Syndrome" is real. If he believes the sky is blue, and it is, we need to not deny it ourselves.

It's like when people died of influenza due to overreaction of the immune system.

And from the utter frenzy came this massive overcorrection. It'll probably take decades to re-correct it assuming we don't all just die in a war or climate disaster first. Which might be preferable at this point.

Sites that have let people share CHILD PORN over and over and over again don't get taken down. White supremacist sites where terrorist attacks have been planned don't get taken down. But a site that makes fun of fetishistic men and pedophiles and breaks no laws can't be allowed to stand! How much more obvious can it be that fetishistic men and pedophiles are the ones who hold all the power, and protecting their own ilk is far more important to them than any of the other issues they pretend to care about?

Really telling how they never go after any incel sites, esp ones that have been responsible for carrying out attacks against women in the past..hmm I mean, if they actually are real women just as they claim to be, you would think they would feel just as threatened by them as they are by imaginary 'transphobes' coming after them, but they're not..must be the kinship

Can someone explain to me like I’m a 10 year old: if the Tor version of the site is still up, does that mean that it is just as accessible as before, as long as people have the Tor browser? Or is it more complicated than that?

Yes, it's operating pretty much fine. I use Brave (a Chrome-based browser), and in that you can just select "New private window with Tor".

You can then use special Tor URL ending in "onion" though, which is on the Telegram status page.

It is still accessible, but the traffic/reach is obviously much more limited. Josh has also expressed a disinclination to keep the site exiled to the dark web, though other users right now are trying to get him to reconsider that.

The question for the future is what happens if the scorched-earth campaigners really go nuclear as he said in his post, seizing the IP allocation under Australian law, which would effectively fracture the Internet at its most rudimentary levels of operation, and in such a way that countries like China would be thrilled. It would also mean that they can't get online through Tor anymore, because even that requires IP allocation. And as Josh said it would set an incredibly dangerous precedent for the future of any dissent anywhere on earth.

For now, at least, you can still access KF through either a dedicated Tor browser or the Brave browser, which is much easier if you're an everyday normie browsing the Internet (you just hit Alt+Shift+N or Option+Command+N on Mac). It remains to be seen how much longer that stays in place.

Thank you!

Thank you also for explaining the further dangers. What always baffles me is how even the people who don’t care about this particular issue don’t realize that if you can do it to Mumsnet or KF, you can do it to anybody. All of the people cheering it on, or not caring, really think it could never happen to them or to a cause they value. Does nobody read history anymore? Or think?

Feelz over realz is the new governing ethos. No, they don't think, not at all, and history is in the process of being rewritten so as to be more wokeish. See George Orwell and Martin Niemoller for where this leads to.

[–] crodish 15 points Edited

I sincerely hope Null has all his stuff backed up. Not just the trans stuff, but everything. KF was an extremely resourceful site, despite some actual anti-trans and anti-women sentiments on there. I'm genuinely surprised that it got taken down because it's so much more active/popular and bigger than Ovarit is.

Oppressed minority my ass. Keep taking people down. You'll still be the same sex you were concepted as the moment your father's sperm met your mother's egg in her womb. Humans can't change sex, stay mad. Live long and prosper.

From the Telegram:

A resourceful network engineer managed to tunnel our server so we could get a completely up-to-date copy of the database and attachments. Even in a worst case scenario, there will be no data loss.

I still feel like there's a chance he's just talking out of his ass to make us feel better.

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