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30 comments

You mean to tell me using synthetic hormones that mimic the opposite sex causes the female body to not work as expected? No wayyyy.

[–] hmimperialtortie AGP = evil 22 points

Mouse study.

So they’re torturing more animals for these unspeakable people.

[–] ProMoleratWaxer #1 Worst Poster 20 points Edited

They are doing 'phalloplasties' on live bitches (domestic dog type) to refine it for our brave TIFs. It can always get worse. Also there's the fringe chance of you entering the corpse phalloplasty experiments if you donate it to medical science. (So if you don't want your corpse potentially desecrated please put a disclaimer in your will or something)

Source (NSFL, it's a female dog with a sausage grafted on to it and autopsies)

[–] crodish 🔪🍠 17 points Edited

I hate this earth. The rat one was horrific enough. These dogs didn't deserve this AND TRA constantly argue that animals have no gender and so can't understand or consent to this at all. Those poor dogs. And this was from June 2018.

There's a section in the article that says they got it approved by ethics. It was of course chinese. (I'm chinese, so don't even.) The rat one was from china as well. Fucking hell.

Animal Care

All animal care and experimental protocols were approved by the ethics committee of the Plastic Surgery Hospital at the Chinese Academy of Medical Sciences. 11 mongrel female dogs (11–13 months old, weight = 17.4 ± 2.2 kg) were maintained on a commercial paste diet, given deionized water ad libitum, and kept in cages in a 20 ± 2°C room at 40% to 60% relative humidity with a natural light-dark cycle.

All animals were subjected to penile reconstruction surgery according to the following surgical procedures. Intravenous access was established preoperatively for saline infusion to maintain fluid balance. Penicillin at a dose of 40,000 IU was given intramuscularly before surgery and the antibiotic was administrated at the same dose once a day for 5 days postoperatively. Each dog after surgery was equipped with a large-sized Elizabethan collar to prevent the animal from biting and licking the surgical site. The animals were examined daily within 2 weeks after surgery until the wound healed completely. Postoperative complications, such as incision dehiscence and self-bite, were managed immediately once observed.

There is literally no medical reason for this to be done on dogs except for human vanity. We're fixing what isn't broken.

Edit: fucking hell I didn't catch this

penile reconstruction surgery

IT'S NOT "RECONSTRUCTION" IF THE ANIMAL NEVER HAD ONE IN THE FIRST PLACE. BECAUSE THEY'RE FEMALE DOGS.

[–] hmimperialtortie AGP = evil 4 points

Holy shit.

I wish there were an anguished rage emoji. Poor dogs! And for what?! Nothing but bullshit! When among other issues we have genuine diseases that need treatments and surgical techniques that need improvement. Beyond insanity.

[–] Committing_Tervery terf/terfself 11 points Edited

Right? I get so upset reading about this shit happening to animals. The “researchers” who torture these beings for a living are seriously the worst. Mice are so intelligent & feel pain... they have complex suffering. 🥺 The other shitty part is that they (and rats) have no legal protection... nor do most research animals.

Animal studies are the only way to learn about different drugs and therapies before testing them on humans (if we ever reach that level). It's ridiculous to oppose using animals for testing because the alternative is that science doesn't progress

[–] ProxyMusic 20 points Edited

These particular studies on animals are totally uncalled for and uneccessary, though. There is already ample research on the impact of exogenous T on female bodies from the experience of anabolic steroid users. And from the longterm medical records of all the female athletes in the GDR who were doped on androgens throughout their tweens, teens and 20s in the 1960s, 70s and 80s. Just as the Nazis were meticulous about keeping records, so were the Stasi.

Taking exogenous T causes men's testes to fail. It reduces human male sperm count and can lead to permanent sterility in men. It also reduces natural T production in males. So chances are good it would have negative impacts on female gonads too.

See some more info on this thread:

https://ovarit.com/o/GenderCritical/106098/don-t-listen-to-us-listen-to-your-doctor-actually-do-listen-to-us-just-don-t-hol

Then let science stop progressing. I for one don't care to benefit from ill-gotten knowledge that's based on torturing animals.

Animal studies are normal

I understand there are people on both sides of the animal experimentation argument. I really do see both sides, though I haven’t delved into the debate enough to speak authoritatively as to what extent if any it is necessary for the advancement of medicine

But I would think even the ones who support it agree there must be a legitimate reason ie a provable benefit.

Otherwise it’s just unethical torture and killing.

It’s like how even meat eaters don’t agree with killing a steer for a single hoof say. (Probably a bad analogy but I’m tired)

This is just bullshit. It serves no valuable medical purpose to me.

I get that the TRAs would feel differently but it’s part of why I think they are a cult

as to what extent if any it is necessary for the advancement of medicine

There's no way to test new drugs for safety without animals. Unless you're willing to let people die without any way to know if a substance kills living things. Also, animal studies are the only way to test treatments that would be applied to pregnant women and to see how certain impact pregnancy. Unless you want to give pregnant women unknown drugs.

But I would think even the ones who support it agree there must be a legitimate reason ie a provable benefit

Expanding knowledge is a legitimate reason.

Otherwise it’s just unethical torture and killing.

It is ethical

It’s like how even meat eaters don’t agree with killing a steer for a single hoof say.

Hunting is OK when regulated and done responsibly. Hunting endangered species is a problem. Hunting species that are already prey and that there's an abundance of, is not unethical.

[–] [Deleted] Shayy 8 points

Hi, stop defending the unnecessary and downright evil torture of innocent animals already.

Do you like having modern medicines and surgical procedures instead of... literally nothing?

You can thank animal testing for that.

I have PCOS which is if not the most common cause of female infertility, it's pretty up there... and it's been known for decades that anything that gets our testosterone levels down into normal range results in more regular, stronger (better egg quality) ovulations. So why anyone would feel the need to do a study to prove the reverse... that giving women testosterone screws up your chances of getting pregnant... I am baffled. And it's not like the people doing the study didn't know this...

Maybe it's less for medical providers' knowledge than it is because nothing else was getting through to these women that you can't have your beard and your baby, too? (Wait, that's not true, really... fun thing about excess body hair, that tends to keep growing right along once it's been triggered, almost as if testosterone really does have lingering, irreversible effects on some parts of the body. Who knew?)

(I don't know why ovulatory function is able to bounce back.. I just know it is. Knowing what stuff doesn't go away with normal T levels is what made me stabby from day one with all the claims about "transwomen" in sports being just like any other woman once those levels drop. Not... exactly.)