I fight for and support abortion right for WOMEN only, and nobody else. And I mean WOMEN! I don't give a shit about anyone who's pregnant and not a WOMAN.

Luckily we don't have to fight for pregnant people who aren't women, because there's no such thing.

Edited

But apparently according to Cori Bush, PP and all them Pieces of Shit there are. So I'm saying this once again loud and clear: I'm not fighting for pregnant people who aren't women. I don't give a fuck about those "people who aren't women get pregnant too" and those "people who aren't women need abortions too". If those imaginary people who aren't women need abortions, it's not my problem. People who aren't women who get pregnant and need abortions aren't entitled to my advocacy or support. So they can take a hike and I'm not changing my language. If I ever come face to face with some wokester from PP I'll tell them exactly that.

[–] Femina 37 points

I do not even know why TIFs even get pregnant if they hate being women so much... Like being pregnant is like the most womanly thing there is as it is something that only a body that is biologically female can do...

[–] Tortoisemouse 14 points

I wonder this as well. Like, if their bodily gender dysphoria is soooo intense that they have to get their breasts sliced off, then how come it's suddenly fine to be pregnant????

[–] JanesHeir 2 points

Edited

As much as I find self-ID "men" choosing to get pregnant bizarre, I feel compelled to remind us that there are no doubt TIFs who did nor choose to get pregnant; they are of the female sex and are vulnerable to rape and exploitation by men. They need abortion access.

[–] Femina 1 points

Yes these ones I can understand it is more the ones who have consensual heterosexual coitus that I find weird since they are willingly using their birth genitals for sexual activity even though they supposedly hate being born with said genital...

[–] thesnorkmaiden 3 points

I really hate to be the one to bring this to your attention, in case you haven’t come across it, but “men” who get pregnant and give birth don’t do it like boring stupid women. They’re seahorse daddies, you see. 🤢

[–] Femina 1 points

😂

[–] thesnorkmaiden 4 points

Here’s what is so crazy to me. They do realize that, if abortion rights are protected/restored, anyone who needs one would be able to get one, right? Like, if you are pregnant and need an abortion, delusional man-woman would be able to get it just as much as a boring old normal woman would. It’s not like the abortion doc is going to be like “uhhhhh…. Sorry, this protest poster from 2022 includes the word ‘woman,’ sooo…. I guess you’re screwed.”

[–] crodish 🤡🌏 33 points

It's okay to be angry. They're still women and we'd be fighting for their rights anyway with or without their consent or our mutual agreement. (Radfeminism, all women, even the ones we don't like etc). But god, I feel you on the "JUST FUCK OFFFFFFF" state of things.

They were the ones who disavowed womanhood. They are the ones fucking it up. And women are getting the short end of it when the TQ specials are the ones actively sabotaging women's rights. They are the ones who will benefit from it anyway when women win. It's really fucking unjust.

[–] Liandra 12 points

I don't think it's necessary to get preachy on op, obviously if the right to abortion will be reinstated, everyone who needs one can go and get it.

I think expressing this sentiment is fair and the message "you can't just opt out and back in as you please without burning bridges" must be sent.

Again, if we get a right, it'll be there for all women (or also non women if general human right) and we need more of the sentiment op expressed: we're women, we fucking love it and we're loud (and just fuck off if you don't like us saying that). Or at least the first and last part in case you don't like it so much.

[–] Lilith-Fair [OP] 3 points

Thank you!

[–] Ptarmagant 5 points

Wish I could give you 30 up points for this.

[–] Tortoisemouse 1 points

Edited

Edit because decided to make my comment a top-level response to OP.

[–] Chani 20 points

Women who identify as NB or male are wrong, but they still matter. Many of them developed this "identity" as the result of trauma, including from rape or other sexual assault. Some aren't gender conforming and were gaslit into thinking that it makes them not women. They ought to love being women, but that can be hard in a society that hates women and lies about what a woman is. Their rights matter and are included in women's rights.

[–] notapatsy 10 points

I agree, but I also share the op's anger over those women who, having "identified" their way out of womanhood and disparage it, want those of us they left behind to change what they left behind.

[–] Tortoisemouse 9 points

Strong agree.

Women who identify as NB or as men are still women and are therefore included in everything rad fems fight for, whether they like it or not. We don't need any extra inclusive language because they are already included!!!!

If anything, we are being too inclusive for their liking.

[–] mountainwitch 22 points

You have every right to be angry. I understand. However, abortion is a necessary right for all women, not just women we agree with. There are religious psuedo-fascist women who get abortions, only to turn around and fight against abortion rights. They are just as bad. Should we say they aren't allowed to have bodily autonomy?

I get your anger. I feel you. Their internalized misogyny can be appalling and sickening but at the end of the day they are still females. We should not cede language to them, nor should we cater to them, but they still deserve the right to abort.

You may find Andrea Dworkin's "Right Wing Women" helpful.

[–] Lilith-Fair [OP] 23 points

Edited

Cori Bush is not right wing. None of these asshats are right wing. And fuck no I don't have to support anyone I don't want to. I especially don't have to support some imaginary people that don't exist. No one is entitled to anyone's charity. So if they wag their fingers and tell me there are some imaginary nonexistent type of humans need abortions too, I ain't cowering back and saying sorry. I'll flat out tell them I'm not here to fight for abortion rights of people who aren't women who get pregnant. I'm fighting for women and that's that.

Like you said abortion right is necessary for all women. I don't disagree. I already said i support the right for all women. They're telling me there are people who aren't women who get pregnant. Well whoever these people are, I never signed up to fight for them so they can take their finger wavings and "inclusive languages" and shove it all up their asses.

[–] mountainwitch 7 points

They are coming from the same place. A place of misogyny, deeply rooted in the desire to escape womanhood or to be freed from the confines of "woman" by stepping on other women.

Some quotes, to illustrate:

"Women are humiliated because they hated themselves, their sex, their female bodies, they hated being female."

"Dissociation from other women is always the safest course."

"All the possibilities of her body will be reduced to expressing her relationship to intercourse. Every sign on her body, every symbol—clothes, posture, hair, ornament—will have to signal her acceptance of his sex act and the nature of her relationship to it"

"This makes any woman-centered sexuality impossible. What it does make possible is a woman’s continued existence within a system in which men control the valuation of her existence as an individual. This valuation is based on her sexual conformity within a sexual system based on his right to possess her. Women are brought up to conform: all the rules of femininity—dress, behavior, attitude—essentially break the spirit. Women are trained to need men, not sexually but metaphysically."

As you can see, this applies both to right wing women and TiFs/handmaidens. It is all part and parcel of internalized misogyny. Please read the book. Nobody is asking you to cede language (it's counterproductive to do so!).

[–] Tortoisemouse 2 points

Edited

Thanks for these quotes.

How does this one apply to TiFs especially given that many of them are lesbians?

"All the possibilities of her body will be reduced to expressing her relationship to intercourse. Every sign on her body, every symbol—clothes, posture, hair, ornament—will have to signal her acceptance of his sex act and the nature of her relationship to it"

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[–] Tortoisemouse 3 points

especially don't have to support some imaginary people that don't exist.

You absolutely do not. Indeed, as you rightly said, you don't have to support anyone if you don't want to.

These women (who identify as "trans") do completely exist as women and they are included in what we do and what we believe. I know they are annoying and they are making it very very hard for us to fight for any women at all, but they are still included.

I think I get what you are saying though: you don't agree to support the rights of "trans men" or "non-binary people" to access abortions because they don't exist. You support the rights of women and that includes TiFs whether they like it or not and if they don't like it, weeeel they can go and complain about that to their transy friends because we've got more important stuff to deal with right now.

[–] Lilith-Fair [OP] 3 points

Yep. They're either women, which they are, and in which case I'm already supporting all women. There is no such thing as "trans men" and "nobinary people". If there are, I do not support them. And even if there is some new specie of human beings, it's still my right to not support these mutants who as far as I know do not exist. So fucktards like Cori Bush and BB can go suck it as no one is entitled to my charity or support, and I choose to support only WOMEN.

[–] orchidea 8 points

Preach. I feel exactly the same.

And let's be honest, the accommodation of calls to socially and politically deconstruct women out of their own reproductive capacities, burdens and risks is not a result of any significant care for the feelings of the Kais and Elliotts of the world, otherwise known as the most extreme self-hating women. As if. There are many more vulnerable, marginalized minorities that people in general would rightly or wrongly consider 'deserving' of special protection and attention. "Don't say women" results from endemic misogyny, from the cheapness of virtue signalling when it involves shitting on women, and from TIMs successfully getting people to lick their asses and agree that there is nothing special or in need of protection about women apart from head tilting and wearing dresses and make up.

Anyone saying "not only women..." in a fight about abortion rights is PART OF THE PROBLEM

[–] Lilith-Fair [OP] 2 points

Precisely! They're running the world upside down letting the most extreme self-hating women lead how women should fight for our rights.

[–] real_feminist 6 points

Edited

Andrea Dworkin has some quote about fighting for women, including the ones that we hate.

Of course, that doesn't mean complying with their misogynistic bullshit. It means that fighting for women's rights will empower TIFs and the pro-life women too even if they want a world of fucking handmaidens.

[–] bluetinfoilhat 8 points

Even if trans men and non binaries were a thing, I don't know why women should care about their issues. I mean, they can create their male abortion and reproductive rights groups.

[–] Lilith-Fair [OP] 4 points

Very true. They never want to start their own groups like all marginalized people. They just want to come into women's groups and make us comply. It's all about control. I feel at this point it's no longer about validating themselves. It's about invalidating us and invalidating women a a thing that exists altogether. Their internalized self-hate is so deep, they don't just want to identify themselves out of being a women, they need to invalidate our existence altogether to the point that there is no such a thing as women.

[–] bluetinfoilhat 2 points

This is it. This is why trans women and trans men will go to women specific events and demand they not focus on women. I had a friend go to a conference for women workers, and they actually shouted "stop saying women, just say people." Can you imagine a Hindu going to a Jewish event and telling them not to center Jews??

[–] penelopekitty 9 points

Edited

I feel you.

Once upon a time I had more sympathy for TIFS, nonbinaries not so much, but after engaging with a lot of them I feel the same way you do.

[–] mrsmeyers 5 points

I only feel bad for teenage TIFs, because many of them are TIFs because of how badly libfems fucked up feminism. But the actual libfems/TIFs trying to run away now from femaleness because they made being a woman unbearable by A) pushing sex positivity and porn culture and B) allowing males to pornify women even further by buffalo billing us can honestly and I do mean honestly piss off.

They are delusional. Holding your tongue when people talk about pregnant women is oh so triggering but not having sex in your vagina or pushing a baby out of your vagina? The one thing that is 100% female? These weirdos need to grow up already.

Rant I fight for and support abortion right for WOMEN only, and nobody else. And I mean WOMEN! I don't give a shit about anyone who's pregnant and not a WOMAN.

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