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decided to try my hand at a little social experiment today. posted on AITA asking whether i was the asshole for refusing to remove my hijab in front of a transwoman (real situation that's happened to someone I know). in the post i stated that i accepted all gender identities but the rules of islam were based in sex. instantly got several "YTA transwomen are women", and then the post was removed, all in <5 minutes.

it's really telling how libfems will kiss muslims' feet and fawn all over them and pretend to be all inclusive and accepting - until they're not. you don't wanna eat pork? yass muslim queen of course we'll find you an alternative right away! you don't wanna take off your hijab or undress or go to the bathroom in the same room as a male? regressive backwards bigoted uneducated dirty brown monkey TERF!!

as is the case with all religions and WOC, liberal white people are only willing to accept them to a certain point. as soon as your religious beliefs go against their made-up gender cult nonsense, you're just as bad as those bearded brown terrorist muzzies.

decided to try my hand at a little social experiment today. posted on AITA asking whether i was the asshole for refusing to remove my hijab in front of a transwoman (real situation that's happened to someone I know). in the post i stated that i accepted all gender identities but the rules of islam were based in sex. instantly got several "YTA transwomen are women", and then the post was removed, all in <5 minutes. it's really telling how libfems will kiss muslims' feet and fawn all over them and pretend to be all inclusive and accepting - until they're not. you don't wanna eat pork? yass muslim queen of course we'll find you an alternative right away! you don't wanna take off your hijab or undress or go to the bathroom in the same room as a male? regressive backwards bigoted uneducated dirty brown monkey TERF!! as is the case with all religions and WOC, liberal white people are only willing to accept them to a certain point. as soon as your religious beliefs go against their made-up gender cult nonsense, you're just as bad as those bearded brown terrorist muzzies.

198 comments

[–] Hollyhock 114 points (+114|-0)

This has happened IRL, but it goes quietly. Women-only gym times/swim times, etc. It's not just Muslim women who lose out, it's all the women who needed/wanted/felt safer in women-only spaces who no longer get exercise because TiMs invade them. But they are voiceless.

[–] [Deleted] 75 points (+76|-1)

oh definitely. I was just curious about how the cognitive dissonance would play out when it comes to religion - Western liberals are so fiercely protective of Muslims and their religious beliefs even when they seem ridiculous or strange, so i wanted to see what would win out - the woke side telling them that muslims beliefs can never be judged or shamed, or the other woke side telling them that men's feelings > everything else. i guess it wasn't even a fight to begin with - should've known white men always trump alll.

[–] Hollyhock 47 points (+47|-0)

I agree 100 percent! I feel like Western liberals often leave Muslim women by the wayside because progressives do the backwards bending to 'anything Islam is good!' even if it's clearly hurting women.

[–] [Deleted] 46 points (+46|-0)

exactly. it's funny because they defend islam even though it harms women, but also they don't tolerate islam when it's coming from a woman. so basically it all just boils down to misogyny and hatred of women of colour as usual

[–] hard_headed_woman 13 points (+13|-0)

Well, if you believe that "all cultures are equaly valid," then what happens in those cultures has to be ok. Right?

Personally, I never believed that, so I have no problem condemning the treatment of women in those cultures.

[–] Nasrin 39 points (+39|-0)

The cognitive dissonance that Westerners feel when a Muslimah says anything about how harmful much of Islam is to women, or what can be done to assist with reform is genuinely amazing.

[–] pennygadget 39 points (+41|-2)

Just look at how White progressives treat Ayaan Hirsi Ali. They treat her like a modern day Hitler simply because she pushes for Muslim reform and an end to FGM.

WOC only matter to them when they shut up and do as they're told

[–] ComplicatedSpirit 24 points (+24|-0) Edited

This. Someone who has never lived in a Muslim country or been brought up in Muslim culture or been obliged to closely follow devout Muslim religion, will lecture someone who has had her clitoris cut off or who was married to a man as his third wife when she was fourteen, or all three, that she doesn’t know what she’s talking about - Islam is a beautiful, empowering religion for women because it actually gives women rights. Only in a technical sense, but still. Why, they had to grow up in a religion in which their mother made them wear a long skirt over tights to church early every Sunday morning, because they didn’t think it was appropriate to wear shorts or something comfortable, so don’t you dare pretend like Islam is bad and they don’t know what oppressive religion really is.

I’ve personally witnessed this, that’s only why I bring it up. It was online, but still. Woke white college friends arguing with an ex-Muslim woman over how she’s really ignorant about the very place she came from and they’ve never experienced in their lives, and then arguing that they have a right to speak on the issue of religious oppression, because “I had to take my first communion at 6 and wear a frilly dress - do you have any idea what that’s like?” and “You want to talk about being afraid? Try listening to a sermon about ‘fear of God’ and heaven and hell when you’re a kid and all you should be doing is playing and enjoying life” and “My mom wouldn’t even let me sleep until I had said my prayers out loud with her”. I’m not saying that everything they had to do wasn’t awful as well. I’m saying that pretending that one had it worse than a sexually mutilated, abused, underaged-married, socially-isolated, polygamous, legally-half-a-brain Muslim woman because your parents raised you Christian in the US is fucking insulting, unless you were raised in some Mormon fundamentalist compound, which, of course, none of these people were.

[–] IronicWolf 16 points (+16|-0)

The Muslim and Orthodox Jewish groups that the woke listen to have an almost complete absence of women’s voices so they don’t get to hear that abolishing single sex spaces makes the world even smaller for Muslim and Jewish women (which their conservative menfolk don’t really mind). Also Muslims as a group serve mainly as a defence and cover for woke antisemitism. There are no end of problems with somebody like Linda Sarsour, for example, but the wokerati love her.

[–] Hollyhock 20 points (+20|-0)

pardon the pun, but Linda Sarsour really soured the Women's March for me...it was such an uplifting, poweful experience and to be co-opted by single-minded activists who PUSHED out the Jewish founder. Made my blood boil.

[–] [Deleted] 4 points (+4|-0)

It was coopted by a man. Matt something something and he placed those women in charge. It was in an NYT article about Linda Sarsour and the women’s march. I don’t have the link but I remember reading it long ago in r/GC

[–] AmyHousewine 20 points (+20|-0)

Linda Sarsour said, of Ayaan Hirsi Ali, that she wasn't a real woman and she wished she could take her vagina away. Of a woman who had her external genitalia cut off, without anesthesia or basic hygiene. Fuck her forever. She is vile, and while I cherish having been part of the Women's March just for the experience her presence there was a sign of the utter rot in the libfem world.

She also has tweeted that Sharia law is the shit because it means you won’t have to pay interest on your credit cards.

[–] Ishahchai 8 points (+11|-3)

The woke haaaaaate Orthodox Jews, though, except for maybe that sect that is anti-Zionist. But any Jew, Orthodox or otherwise, who dares say that Israel has a right to exist is considered by the woke to be subhuman white supremacist colonizing trash. Woke antisemitism actually bothers me more than the actual neo-Nazis. The new-Nazis are at least honest and open about their hatred of me. Woke antisemitism is like woke misogyny- couched in terms that make it more palatable and therefore more dangerous.

[–] bornwithovaries 1 points (+7|-6) Edited

Personally, I'm tired of being told I'm antisemitic because I question why a movement started by atheists which for the most part no longer has a religious reason to claim the land should be allowed to do whatever it wants when the people it purports to protect were actually much, much safer elsewhere.

The world doesn't put even a tenth of the same energy into helping other displaced ethnic groups move back to their homelands. Hell, we've still got Cherokee in Oklahoma here in the USA and that's not where they're from at all. The state I live in has zero homegrown indigenous population because Andrew Jackson relocated them. They're gone. Probably forever.

We can go one of two places on this: we can demand that all displaced people be returned to their homelands or we can keep playing favorites. I don't hate any ethnicity or wish harm on them. I just want the hypocrisy to stop.

[edit] Another issue I have with this whole situation is the lack of education on the issues, for instance no one ever seems to remember that Arabs are a Semitic people. Odd. Islam holds that they are descendants of Ishmael, Abraham's first son, therefore heirs to his inheritance. This comes out in weird ways when I talk to Zionists. One told me, presumably with a straight face (this was online), that Arabic, the language, derives from Hebrew! Nope. Sorry. Makes me wonder what other false information is out there.

[–] littleowl12 16 points (+16|-0)

I understand how women-only swim/gym times can be hard depending on the hour that they want- I can't think of when it would be reasonable on a Sunday, for example, when the place is most in demand. But women could ask for a time at 4 in the morning on Tuesdays and TIMs would show up.

[–] AmyHousewine 22 points (+22|-0)

That's exactly it. If we started a natal-women-only litter cleanup team, suddenly a bunch of TiMs who've never cared at all about cleaning up roadways would start threatening suicide and insisting they were suffering literal violence if we didn't let them pick up McDonald's wrappers from the side of a highway.

[–] Carrots90 6 points (+6|-0)

You are brilliant!!

Great point.

Now, how to use this....

-women only abortion rights marches

-only women can donate money to this domestic shelter

[–] [Deleted] 3 points (+3|-0)

I don’t see a problem with men cleaning up after themselves.

[–] She-Ra 1 points (+1|-0)

OMG I NEVER THOUGHT ABOUT THE GYM 😭

I was thinking of joining one... I'm going to email now and ask.

[–] lulululululu 86 points (+86|-0)

I grew up Muslim and even though I don’t really practice anymore, this has been an issue for my Muslim friends living in the United States.

Two girls that I knew who wore hijab decided to live in a women’s only dorm at their university so they didn’t have to put on the hijab if they wanted to run to the bathroom quickly, etc. Everything was going okay until a TIM moved into the dorm. Despite the stereotype of Muslims being homophobic and transphobic, these two girls were actually pretty liberal and desperately wanted to be seen as accepting and inclusive towards their new dormmate but at the same time... their religious beliefs. The two girls ended up continuing to wear hijab in the dorm because of the TIM which was a pain because they had specifically chosen this dorm to NOT have to wear it. Thankfully the TIM didn’t know enough about Islam to understand why they were still wearing the hijab around him. If the TIM knew a little more about Islam I’m sure the two girls would have been attacked as TERFs.

Anyway, having been a part of Muslim communities in the US, I can say that there are an increasing number of progressive Muslim Americans trying to find ways to accommodate the LGB. They’re not the majority yet, but there’s a good number of them. But the one issue that pretty much every Muslim American will not budge on is the T from the conservative ones to the progressive ones when biological sex is so important to the religion. The progressive ones might only say it behind closed doors to not get attacked, but they absolutely do say it behind closed doors as someone who’s been there to hear those conversations. The only Muslim Americans I know who support the T are the ones who came from Muslim families but never actually practiced or know much of anything about the religion lol.

[–] [Deleted] 46 points (+46|-0)

I was born and raised Muslim as well but I'm not active in any of those communities anymore so it's really relieving for me to hear that the ones you know of are not tolerating this shit. and same with my super conservative family in the middle east - most of them are at least tolerant of LGB and have accepted that it's a biological thing and can't be changed, but they're convinced that the T is nothing more than perversion and mental illness ... which it is lol

[–] lulululululu 48 points (+48|-0)

Yeah lmao, I had Muslim friends on a very woke college campus and a lot of them genuinely liked the LGB and only pretended to like the T so that they wouldn’t get called TERFs, but the SECOND that the doors were closed and there were only Muslims in the room they would let all their true opinions out lol. I had a hijabi friend who made a name for herself as an LGB activist so transgender people would go out of their way to try to befriend her (tokenize her honestly) because they assumed she liked them too, but in private she sounded just like any random commenter on Ovarit! I don’t think any actually practicing Muslim can buy this BS when it’s so antithetical to the religion.

[–] MakeThatDough 17 points (+17|-0)

it's so interesting. i watched the documentary on Transgenders in Iran and stuff. crazy that they prefer that to homosexuality, something natural.

[–] [Deleted] 10 points (+10|-0)

lmao queen shit! claps for her. and yup, it's antithetical to literally anybody with half a working brain cell, but there don't seem to be many of those around ..

[–] [Deleted] 38 points (+38|-0)

This is why the white man invented sex thing is so insulting. Sex segregation existed in brown cultures for thousands of years. It’s literally evident in the architecture of some ancient palaces in those areas. It wasn’t arbitrary based on feelings. Now we are all suppose to believe it was a feeling along? Insanity.

[–] pennygadget 29 points (+29|-0)

This is why the white man invented sex thing is so insulting.

Its racist as hell, too. Like, they really expect us to believe that all brown folks danced naked in the fields and lived in a gender neutral utopia before The White Man arrived. And that they instantly decided to just be sexist forever simply because Whitey said so. Its absurd!!

[–] vulvapeople 8 points (+9|-1)

Apparently, before the white man showed up, black and brown men were masturbating into holes in the ground and were like "why no baby?"

[–] yikesforever 6 points (+6|-0)

It just shows how ignorant they are. Easy to bullshit about things when you know nothing.

There are some really ancient and intelligent civilizations, Egypt, China, Greece, etc. But biological sex was invented only a few hundred years ago by white guys... lmao.

[–] [Deleted] 4 points (+4|-0)

Honestly it’s exactly the type of rhetoric you see in spaces like stormfront and other nazi spaces. All scientific and cultural advances were made by Aryans, everyone else were living in scientific and cultural wasteland until then. The challenge to that is “here look at all these civilizations around the world not influenced by white people and who added to our worlds cultural advancement”, not civilization is racist let’s get rid of it, which is what TRAs are doing.

[–] pennygadget 38 points (+38|-0) Edited

I know orthodox Jewish girls who had similar issues.

The other problem with letting TIMs into places like girls' dorms is that it will put more restrictions on girls from super orthodox families. If a hardcore religious father cannot be assured that his daughter will never have to share living space and toilets/showers with men; he'll simply keep her out of school. A lot of girls from restrictive religious families will lose even more autonomy simply because a dude wanted to play in a ladies dorm.

[–] vulvapeople 6 points (+6|-0)

Colleges that are enabling this are going to come to regret it. American colleges benefit greatly from foreign students coming here to study (which is one reason they're in trouble because of COVID), and many parents of those students have conservative ideas about the mingling of unrelated men and women. If those parents can't be assured their kids can choose a truly sex-segregated living situation, they might simply choose to keep them home or might send them to a different country to study.

[–] [Deleted] 3 points (+3|-0)

Not sure about that. A lot of foreign students don’t live on campus dorms because they are expensive and usually rent a condo off campus with 5 other people from their own country and self segregated not just by sex but by diet and language as well. It’s the lack of availability of work and work visas after their studies that’s keeping foreign students away. American work experience is valuable even back home but if they can’t get that then there is no point in spending hundreds of thousands in an American education.

It’s really the kids born to those immigrants that will suffer because they’ll be caught between their parents conservative cultures and the need to fit into American society. They are also the group most likely to stay in dorms.

[–] Jellyfishes 4 points (+4|-0)

orthodox Jewish

Genuine question, what are their traditions like? I'm curious since I rarely see jewish religion being discussed.

[–] pennygadget 13 points (+13|-0)

Genuine question, what are their traditions like? I'm curious since I rarely see jewish religion being discussed.

Super orthodox Jewish women have similar modesty rules as Muslims (though hair covering is mostly seen as optional). They also have strict rules about mingling with men (a lot of orthodox temples separate the males and females during services). And they have modest dress codes. So things like swimming can't be done in a mixed sex space.

Again, this is only a thing with very orthodox Jews. Average Jews aren't as strict

[–] MakeThatDough 19 points (+21|-2)

insanity. fuck these guys. well, fuck religion too (i am anti religion especially ones that force women to wear certain clothing to not "tempt" men). ugh. fuck 99% of men.

[–] edieandthea 18 points (+18|-0)

That is such BS. I’m sorry for your friends that they couldn’t be comfortable and at home in their own dorm.

[–] Carthimundia 9 points (+9|-0)

There was a story I read on gender critical ages ago about a cafe that was frequented by Muslim women. This TIM had found out about this and decided to go because I guess it was validating to be surrounded by so many women in a female only space. But the second he stepped in the door, all of the women hurried to put their hijabs on. He was apparently super pissed. Incidentally, I used to work in a woman only college and I know for a fact that they started to lose huge amounts of overseas money because parents would call up and ask if they could be guaranteed to have their daughters in a woman only dorm. Turns out it wasn't a women's college after all because gender queers and non binaries could go as well.

I’m feeling like he wanted to go to a cafe frequented by Muslim women because he wanted to see their reaction. He wanted a reaction. He either wanted to experience the thrill of invading their space, and expected them to just suck it up uncomfortably and not grab their hijabs, so he could have that feeling of power over them, or he wanted them to act shocked and order him out, so he could (literally) make a federal case out of it, or he wanted them to be surprised but very pleased, and have everyone come up and give him a big ol’ hug and say “We accept you as a woman!”

Instead they just grabbed their hijabs. He’s upset because that’s not what he wanted. He was recognized as a man, but quietly and without fuss.

[–] Bubbletea 4 points (+4|-0)

Well he still got the thrill of invading their space, unfortunately.

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[–] [Deleted] 36 points (+36|-0)

As someone for whom this is a real issue, damn. The fact that people jumped to say YTA depresses me, but it doesn't shock me.

[–] [Deleted] 16 points (+16|-0)

same. I don't know why I expected anybody to have common sense, cultural respect, religious respect, etc etc. fuck thousand year old traditions am i right? we all just need to get in line and bow to the white man

[–] pennygadget 17 points (+17|-0)

White men in lipstick will ALWAYS trump everyone else on the progressive stack

[–] immersang 4 points (+4|-0) Edited

fuck thousand year old traditions am i right? we all just need to get in line and bow to the white man

Eh. Christians have two thousand year old traditions, and the modern "left", including lib fems and TRAs, have absolutely no issue shitting all over those. So, I'm not sure about the "white" business in here. Yes, white men are on top of the totem pole for them, but only the woke bros or trans identified ones.

Muslims are pretty high up the woke oppression pyramid, Christians don't even feature there at all. But traaaaaans tops all of them, so there's that.

[–] yikesforever 2 points (+2|-0)

It's truly miserable to see, isn't it. And they pretend to be so empathetic, progressive and tolerant. When the only they do is fall at the feet of men.

[–] pennygadget 28 points (+28|-0)

it's really telling how libfems will kiss muslims' feet and fawn all over them and pretend to be all inclusive and accepting

They're inclusive of Muslim MEN (which includes the sexist practice of requiring women to cover up with hijabs if they don't want to be branded as wh*res). When it comes to issues that matter to Muslim WOMEN (like opposing FGM and protecting their right to female only spaces), they're either silent or outright antagonistic.

[–] diapason 10 points (+10|-0)

Yep. They really only appear inclusive of Muslim women by tokenizing Hijabis for diversity points

Reminds me of when the police in the UK found out about a FUCKING SEX TRAFFICKING RING VICTIMIZING TEENAGE GIRLS and they dilly-dallyed about it because the perpetrators were Muslim immigrant men and the victims were white girls, and “Oh dears, what if we did something Islamophobic? I’d hate for all the focus to be on these privileged GIRLS and not society’s REAL victims....”

[–] kyria 1 points (+2|-1)

The Labour councils that ran those cities ordered the police to back off. Like the Democrats in the US, the putative left has always hated women. They only pretend to care about women.

[–] HessaHein 28 points (+28|-0)

Now that I think about it, didn't Yaniv harass female, usually Muslim immigrants with their female-only businesses?

[–] [Deleted] 17 points (+17|-0)

I didn't know that, mostly because this man makes me sick and I avoid reading anything about him, but I wouldn't be surprised. it's the same reason that TIMs harass lesbians for sex instead of looking for bisexual people - part of the thrill is forcing women into doing something unwillingly under the threat of being called transphobic.

[–] shewolfoffrance 12 points (+12|-0)

I imagine there's an extra thrill with forcing Muslim women to do something they aren't comfortable with. It's the next level of privacy invasion.

[–] [Deleted] 15 points (+15|-0)

it's all about power and control with these men. they want to know that they have the power to force women into violating their cultural and religious beliefs that are thousands of years old. it's disgusting and for the first time in my life I truly hope that the muslim god and afterlife is real just so yaniv can burn in hell forever.

[–] shewolfoffrance 14 points (+14|-0)

He's tweeted some pretty vile stuff, including the following gems:

We have a lot of immigrants here who gawk and judge and aren’t exactly the cleanest people. They’re also verbally and physically abusive… They lie about s–t, they’ll do anything to support their miserable kind and make things miserable for everyone else.

Kind of makes you wonder why he wanted to get his balls waxed by immigrant women so badly that he made whole human rights case about it.

Can’t stand them turban f–kers

But don't worry, they're a reasonable explanation for that last one!

my defence for that is that I was pissed and the the guy literally rejected me for a massage after I mentioned I’m transgender

Oh, ok. That makes it better.

[–] AmyHousewine 9 points (+9|-0)

LOL "not the cleanest people" of a religion that requires ritual washing frequently, from a dude who offers to help teen girls insert tampons and aspires to a neo-vagina that harbours e coli. Ha.

[–] custamontira 4 points (+4|-0)

The same religion also says you can "wash up" with soil if you are on the road and no water is available, so I wouldn't really trust it :D

[–] NotCis 5 points (+5|-0)

I bet one immigrant woman “misgendered” him, although he’s clearly so deranged that he’d attack women with absolutely zero provocation.

[–] IronicWolf 7 points (+7|-0)

I know they were from immigrant backgrounds and one was Sikh. But yeah, he was motivated by racism which became evident when various anti immigrant bile he spewed came up.

[–] Lilith 4 points (+4|-0)

Yes. Because their religious beliefs forbid them from touching males and because he's incredibly racist.

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[–] AdventurousParsley 22 points (+22|-0)

So this is basically white patriarchy winning over brown/Muslim patriarchy - they’re both sexist - but the white men still “win” the war in the woke west because of systemic racism.

What happened to intersectionality? What happened to the Stars and Stripes hijab being the poster child of the women’s march? The snake is eating itself and it’s a pleasure to watch from the side lines.

[–] [Deleted] 15 points (+15|-0)

bingo. the west loves islam bc it's equally as patriarchal and sexist as western society, buuuut it's too transphobique for them i guess

[–] PeakNarcissism 17 points (+17|-0)

AAAARRRGGGHHH, this is so infuriating!!!! I live in a super woke area with a large insular immigrant Muslim community and I have thought about this many times.. Why are the libfem picmes so blinded by misogyny that they can't think even 1 or 2 steps ahead?? And they LOVE LOVE LOVE their immigrant neighbors!

We used to have group showers in HS gym class, are you telling me girls are going to have to shower with these entitled little blue haired creepy penis having voyeurs!!! Where is the line being drawn? Who knows? NO ONE CAN TALK ABOUT IT. It is moving inch by inch. You allow this, then you have to allow that. Fact is, there is NO LINE and no bottom to this hell pit

Just bc you handmaidens want to be apart of a ladydick harem, doesn't mean the rest of us consent to this!!! The ORWELIAN silencing on this issue is CREEPY AF!!!

[–] antandro 2 points (+3|-1)

are you telling me girls are going to have to shower with these entitled little blue haired creepy penis having voyeurs

I'd predict that 100% of practicing Muslim parents would immediately withdraw their daughters from gym class or, if that's not possible, withdraw them from the school entirely.

[–] [Deleted] 16 points (+16|-0)

Discrimination against sex and religion. Why not talk to a human rights lawyer (and other women, Muslim and non-Muslim) who might be interested in pursuing action against this type of discrimination?

[–] [Deleted] 20 points (+20|-0)

this happened to a friend of mine, not me, and unfortunately she's so afraid of being seen as bigoted or transphobic that she won't say anything. :/

[–] [Deleted] 16 points (+16|-0)

I’m sure if she reached out to the right women, she would find like minded people she could band with. In fact, I think we should all reach out to Muslim Women (all women, really) and anyone who values having their own space at the pool etc, and challenge these things. There is safety in numbers. Women’s swimming sessions should be for females only. Can’t understand why males require access to everything females have.

[–] [Deleted] 14 points (+14|-0)

I absolutely agree. I really wish it was safe for me to openly challenge these things but I know for a fact that I would lose my job and probably be expelled from my ultra liberal university as well. at least Covid has one upside - swimming pools are closed and thereby so are the changing rooms, so there isn't really anywhere for these sick men to get their rocks off by spying on vulnerable women

[–] bellatrixbells 12 points (+12|-0)

I think reaching out to Muslim women specifically might be something to do very cautiously. We don't want to form a false alliance by tokenizing beliefs we fight against... It's a difficult choice.

[–] Riothamus 13 points (+13|-0)

Unfortunately the ACLU (which usually handles this sort of thing) has gone all-in with the Gendertology. It's also going to be difficult to find human rights lawyers to take this case for a contingency as many states have capped plaintiffs' damages.

The best bet would be to find a hungry young attorney willing to take the case pro bono.

[–] [Deleted] 11 points (+11|-0)

The ACLU has lost its way with that Strangio lawyer publicly calling for books to be banned. Should have been fired on the spot. If you had a rejection in hand from that organization though, wouldn’t that make headlines? Would love to see them challenged.

[–] Riothamus 14 points (+14|-0)

If they didn't fire her for publicly soliciting GNC teens to contact her via Twitter behind their parents' backs during the pandemic for "advice" then the ACLU will never fire her for anything short of a violent felony.

[–] littleowl12 15 points (+15|-0)

Transactivism is inherently colonial. Your religious boundaries mean shit. They like to make fun of conservative Christians out loud, as if fundie Christians are the only ones complaining. But make no mistake- they aren't tolerant of Judaism, Islam, Dianic Wicca, or anyone else that stands in their way either.

And for some reason, they think Muslims, Jews, Wiccans, etc, owe them something.

[–] [Deleted] 8 points (+8|-0)

exactly. they hide behind mocking conservative christians to hide the fact that they don't tolerate any kind of religion that acknowledges bio sex (so most of them, all the abrahamic ones + wicca certainly)

[–] GreenEggsNMaam 5 points (+5|-0)

Lol tims love to co-opt wicca/claim themselves witches, and it's 120% because you can't be a male witch. If I had a dime for every self proclaimed "witchy sub transbian dyke" or whatever I'd be financially totally chilling this whole covid saga.

[–] diapason 5 points (+5|-0)

And for some reason, they think Muslims, Jews, Wiccans, etc, owe them something.

They think of themselves as sticking up for all the oppressed minorities, so they think that any group that's oppressed in any way—PoC, women, religious minorities, LGBT, etc.—owe them their allegiance and need to do whatever they say, and take it as a betrayal when they won't.

They think of themselves as sticking up for all the oppressed minorities, so they think that any group that's oppressed in any way—PoC, women, religious minorities, LGBT, etc.—owe them their allegiance and need to do whatever they say, and take it as a betrayal when they won't.

And they make up these bizarre narratives about those religions to explain to themselves why they’re so much better than the bland mainstream Christianity or Judaism they probably grew up with. “Look, I know Islam is such a great religion because queer newz dot com posted a video from a non-binary AFAB queer person talking about how ze is Muslim and queer and non-binary and ze obviously know what ze’s talking about and literally any Muslim who tells me I’m wrong is wrong because queer newz dot com is the world’s highest authority on religious information,” or “Nonononono, Buddha didn’t want women to become nuns because he thought it wasn’t necessary because women are so close to enlightenment by nature.”

[–] littlerbear 10 points (+10|-0)

Very true. It's amazing how durable 'wokeness' is until it's time to defend women. Everything is permissible until we get to women's rights and comfort.

Interesting going undercover. I'm curious about doing that myself.

[–] [Deleted] 9 points (+9|-0)

I think it's an interesting way to 1) posit hypothetical questions that they refuse to answer in a real life situation where the person is actually asking for answers 2) prove that even questions in good faith are often met with hostility and censorship. since I was asking this question based on something that happened to a person i know, "I" specified that "I" respected all genders but understood that islam was based in sex - nope, still not enough. they'll accept nothing less than total submission.

[–] dixiechick547 10 points (+11|-1)

The religious angle is very interesting. We go to the local Jewish community center a lot. We work out there and my kids have always done summer camp there. There is at least one TIM who works out there too. I’ve seen him several times, but never in the locker room. While most of the Jews in this area are fairly ‘woke’ we do have a surprisingly large Orthodox Jewish population. Boys aren’t allowed in the women’s locker room after age 6, which is reasonable and they have a ‘family’ locker room so it’s not a problem. I’ve been holding my breath waiting to see how this issue would be handled.

It’s possible that he just goes to the men’s and there’s no problem, but this guy is very obviously an AGP a middle aged transitioned so I don’t know. I keep thinking I should just call and ask. It’s not mentioned in the literature AT ALL, but all the facilities are prominently labeled by sex and the women facilities have an additional sign that says no males over age six.

The whole religion thing is so bizarre. Either you respect people’s religions or you don’t. Conservative Christians are of course anathema, but this whole being all-in for Muslims unless it’s a woman who doesn’t want to uncover in front of a TIM. I wonder sometimes if the woke support of Islam is more about being anti-Israel, because otherwise it makes no sense.

[–] Amareldys 9 points (+10|-1)

No, the work Muslim stuff started after 9-11, when hawkish conservatives used criticisms of Muslims (sexism, homophobia) to justify going to their countries, overthrowing their governments and blowing them up.

[–] antandro 0 points (+1|-1) Edited

Yep, I noticed it a lot after that. Almost a reactionary stance: "the RIGHT likes this ... so we on the LEFT must like that!" And then they worked out the details of why they had a newfound love for Muslims afterwards, which accounts for the patchwork nature of that regard. I really doubt that there's much of an anti-Israel component, or if there is, it was tacked-on later to "fill in" the patchwork. Liberals in the US have supported Israel for decades, which is why billions of dollars of aid go to Israel every year courtesy of the US taxpayer, no matter whether the governing party is Democrat or Republican.

[–] [Deleted] 5 points (+5|-0)

hmmm that's really interesting. maybe he knows that because it's a religious centre, if any woman complains about him being there they'll likely side with her over him.

[–] diapason 3 points (+5|-2)

I wonder sometimes if the woke support of Islam is more about being anti-Israel, because otherwise it makes no sense.

Oh absolutely. They tend to use support for Muslims, and by extension Palestine, as a pretext for being anti-Israel (which tends to be used as cover for, ahem, certain prejudices a lot of them hold that they know they can't say outright). You would think that with all their posturing about being opposed to white supremacy they would support the group that's probably the most frequent target of white supremacists, but the fact that they don't kind of reveals their prejudices in a way.

It's also pretty on-brand of them to take a truth, such as that Muslims have experienced persecution in the West post-9/11 (hate crimes against Muslims (and Sikhs wrongly perceived to be Muslim), racial profiling of West and South Asians, etc.), and turn that into "saying anything critical of Islam, even if it's about conflicts with women's and gay rights, is Islamophobic". They do a lot of black-and-white thinking with little room for nuance, have a very America-centric view of the world, and have this need to always take sides in everything, so armed with the false belief that Muslims are more persecuted than Jews in the West and that anti-Semitism is hardly an issue anymore and a very biased understanding of Israeli-Palestinian relations, they support Palestine whole-heartedly and demonize Israel any chance they get (except for the few that go the opposite direction and consider any and all criticism of Israel to be anti-Semitic).

Of course, they also like to use women who wear Hijab as "diversity", so that also plays a role, cause they love any superficial diversity they can use to make themselves look more progressive.

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