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I've been seeing this from a few male detransitioners, lately. A reminder that we rad fems are not doing enough on their behalf. That we're forgetting or ignoring boys and men harmed by the gender cult.

Let me explain how that's not really true, and it's more that we can't do anything about it, beyond what we're already doing.

First of all, feminism has always been about women. It's perfectly reasonable for an organization for the rights of gay men to focus on gay men, and no one else. It's perfectly reasonable for an Indigenous rights organization to focus on Indigenous people, and no one else. Hell, it's perfectly reasonable for an animal welfare organization to focus on animals, and not people at all.

Only feminists are asked to share the fruits of their labor with everyone else, even their oppressors!

We have a lot on our plate right now. Radical feminism is not only about transgenderism. We've lost the right to abortion in the US. Women and girls the world over face violence, murder, and human trafficking. We have to deal with society, religion, and government that all work together to exploit us. We're fighting all of this PLUS a social contagion that was started by men. So as far as "we're not doing enough"- we're stretched to the limit. Believe me, we would LOVE to have resources to spare. We just don't. Quite frankly, the majority of our allyship with others is a one-way street. When the beneficiaries of our allyship are men, we don't see nearly as much hard work on our behalf. We're on our own for the most part.

Now- are we doing enough for males who get sucked into the gender cult? Well, honestly, who sounded all the alarms in the first place? Who pointed out that HSTS was a product of homophobia? Who made it clear that there is no changing sex, and that these hormones and surgeries were destructive?

And who didn't want to hear it?

Radical feminists have not just faced vitriol for telling the truth. They've faced physical violence, getting fired from their jobs, getting banned from social media, and even being arrested by the police. Posie Parker correctly stated that Susie Green had abused her son by getting him castrated in Thailand at 16, and the police hauled her in for questioning.

By contrast, Matt Walsh has made a fortune with his plagiarized movie, and conservative writers now have clickbait gold. Jordan Peterson got a book deal for rejecting they/them pronouns. They've all enjoyed a slam dunk subject that makes them look good, unlike the emotionally draining and unlikable issues of abortion or their traditional homophobia. Now they don't even have to talk about the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, let alone try to defend them. Thank god for transgenderism! An easy topic where conservative thinkers don't have to explain themselves! What a refreshing change!

That said, conservatives will still malign gays and lesbians as anti-Western civilization. They will do nothing to force compensation to victims of botched surgery, because Republicans wrote the very legislation that prevent successful lawsuits in the first place. They focus on mocking trans people as "loony liberals." Fat, blue haired, unlikable youngsters melting down in public, looking stupid and foolish. They enjoy laughing at gendermeisters, and lumping them in with gays and lesbians. They are less interested in Big Pharma profits and predatory surgeons. Gov. Abbott and Asa Hutchinson are two cases in point about how they say they want to reign in shit like puberty blockers, but they don't when given the opportunity.

Conservatives are even less interested in hearing about how their religious beliefs and homophobia contributed to the problem, especially for HSTS. Transgenderism is not revolutionary- it's actually very regressive. Even nonbinary silliness is traditional: true men and women meet traditional gender roles, and any deviation thereof means something is amiss. Conservatives will accept NO accountability for that, though. Ever.

If anybody in this counter-movement is not pulling their weight, it would be the conservatives.

Another group I would say is not doing all that much would be gay men. Some are great keyboard warriors. Don't get me wrong; I actually think that's very important. We learn a lot online, and voicing your insights is actually excellent help. But how many gay men have been pushing back compared to lesbians and radical feminists? Fewer. Even though as gay men, they ought to be more outraged on behalf of HSTS men. Instead, sensible gay men are surrounded by heartless enablers. Shouldn't HSTS detranistioners be confronting the gay men who enabled them to gain virtue signal points? And thanking the gay men who took a lot of abuse for telling the truth?

I don't see very much confrontation from detransitioners towards conservatives or the portions of the LGBTQ community that enabled them.

Shit, I don't even see much confrontation towards the field of psychiatry! The very field that claims a man can have the "mind" of a woman. The one discipline that makes everything else possible. You'd think if anybody deserved flack for dropping the ball, it would be psychiatry/psychology.

All of this has been covered by radical feminists since the 1970's. Most people found out the truth from "terfs." That's why TRAs dogged feminists so much- they didn't need to go after conservatives. Conservatives weren't the ones putting the info out there. Jennifer Bilek did all the muckraking in the 11th Hour Blog. Janice Raymond hit the nail on the head with The Transsexual Empire. Posie Parker pointed how Susie Green was actually a child abuser. Exulansic put a lot of time into showing how Jazz Jennings is an abuse victim, too. The initial conservative response was "ew, look at the queers lately!" and that was it. Point, laugh, and scorn. Don't ask what the fuck Abbvie is up to.

I'm not quite sure what more feminists can do, or how much more they can sacrifice. The majority of information out there was put together by feminists. We spoke to anybody willing to speak to us, including Tucker Carlson, The Spectator, The Heritage Foundation, and more. We built our own channels and blogs.

It wasn't that we didn't do enough to save you from yourselves. It's that you truly believed everything we said was evil, and that your enablers had your best interests at heart.

In terms of what you could possibly get out of feminists, I think you've maxed out.

It's not that I don't care that Big Pharma profits from the suffering of effeminate boys or gay men. I absolutely do. I just don't agree that rad fems haven't done enough. I don't know that they could possibly do more.

Part of why no one could stop you, when you were in this cult, was the belief that women A) owe you and B) are always letting you down and C) however we're doing it, we're doing it wrong.

Transgenderism is not a product of misandry. It's not a product of feminist selfishness.

It IS a product of capitalist medicine. It IS a product of traditional values about gender roles. It IS a product of homophobia. It IS a product of post-modernism, where men's sexuality is centered as sacred. Men are the source, either the conservative side, or the progressive one.

If we're not willing to admit that, I don't see transgenderism fading away. I don't see justice for detransitioners. I don't see protection for young gay people. Or even just troubled young people.

I've been seeing this from a few male detransitioners, lately. A reminder that we rad fems are not doing enough on their behalf. That we're forgetting or ignoring boys and men harmed by the gender cult. Let me explain how that's not really true, and it's more that we can't do anything about it, beyond what we're already doing. First of all, feminism has always been about women. It's perfectly reasonable for an organization for the rights of gay men to focus on gay men, and no one else. It's perfectly reasonable for an Indigenous rights organization to focus on Indigenous people, and no one else. Hell, it's perfectly reasonable for an animal welfare organization to focus on animals, and not people at all. Only feminists are asked to share the fruits of their labor with everyone else, even their oppressors! We have a lot on our plate right now. Radical feminism is not only about transgenderism. We've lost the right to abortion in the US. Women and girls the world over face violence, murder, and human trafficking. We have to deal with society, religion, and government that all work together to exploit us. We're fighting all of this PLUS a social contagion that was started by men. So as far as "we're not doing enough"- we're stretched to the limit. Believe me, we would LOVE to have resources to spare. We just don't. Quite frankly, the majority of our allyship with others is a one-way street. When the beneficiaries of our allyship are men, we don't see nearly as much hard work on our behalf. We're on our own for the most part. Now- are we doing enough for males who get sucked into the gender cult? Well, honestly, who sounded all the alarms in the first place? Who pointed out that HSTS was a product of homophobia? Who made it clear that there is no changing sex, and that these hormones and surgeries were destructive? And who didn't want to hear it? Radical feminists have not just faced vitriol for telling the truth. They've faced physical violence, getting fired from their jobs, getting banned from social media, and even being arrested by the police. Posie Parker correctly stated that Susie Green had abused her son by getting him castrated in Thailand at 16, and the police hauled her in for questioning. By contrast, Matt Walsh has made a fortune with his plagiarized movie, and conservative writers now have clickbait gold. Jordan Peterson got a book deal for rejecting they/them pronouns. They've all enjoyed a slam dunk subject that makes them look good, unlike the emotionally draining and unlikable issues of abortion or their traditional homophobia. Now they don't even have to talk about the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, let alone try to defend them. Thank god for transgenderism! An easy topic where conservative thinkers don't have to explain themselves! What a refreshing change! That said, conservatives will still malign gays and lesbians as anti-Western civilization. They will do nothing to force compensation to victims of botched surgery, because Republicans wrote the very legislation that prevent successful lawsuits in the first place. They focus on mocking trans people as "loony liberals." Fat, blue haired, unlikable youngsters melting down in public, looking stupid and foolish. They enjoy laughing at gendermeisters, and lumping them in with gays and lesbians. They are less interested in Big Pharma profits and predatory surgeons. Gov. Abbott and Asa Hutchinson are two cases in point about how they say they want to reign in shit like puberty blockers, but they don't when given the opportunity. Conservatives are even less interested in hearing about how their religious beliefs and homophobia contributed to the problem, especially for HSTS. Transgenderism is not revolutionary- it's actually very regressive. Even nonbinary silliness is traditional: true men and women meet traditional gender roles, and any deviation thereof means something is amiss. Conservatives will accept NO accountability for that, though. Ever. If anybody in this counter-movement is not pulling their weight, it would be the conservatives. Another group I would say is not doing all that much would be gay men. Some are great keyboard warriors. Don't get me wrong; I actually think that's very important. We learn a lot online, and voicing your insights is actually excellent help. But how many gay men have been pushing back compared to lesbians and radical feminists? Fewer. Even though as gay men, they ought to be more outraged on behalf of HSTS men. Instead, sensible gay men are surrounded by heartless enablers. Shouldn't HSTS detranistioners be confronting the gay men who enabled them to gain virtue signal points? And thanking the gay men who took a lot of abuse for telling the truth? I don't see very much confrontation from detransitioners towards conservatives or the portions of the LGBTQ community that enabled them. Shit, I don't even see much confrontation towards the field of psychiatry! The very field that claims a man can have the "mind" of a woman. The one discipline that makes everything else possible. You'd think if anybody deserved flack for dropping the ball, it would be psychiatry/psychology. All of this has been covered by radical feminists since the 1970's. Most people found out the truth from "terfs." That's why TRAs dogged feminists so much- they didn't need to go after conservatives. Conservatives weren't the ones putting the info out there. Jennifer Bilek did all the muckraking in the 11th Hour Blog. Janice Raymond hit the nail on the head with *The Transsexual Empire.* Posie Parker pointed how Susie Green was actually a child abuser. Exulansic put a lot of time into showing how Jazz Jennings is an abuse victim, too. The initial conservative response was "ew, look at the queers lately!" and that was it. Point, laugh, and scorn. Don't ask what the fuck Abbvie is up to. I'm not quite sure what more feminists can do, or how much more they can sacrifice. The majority of information out there was put together by feminists. We spoke to anybody willing to speak to us, including Tucker Carlson, *The Spectator,* The Heritage Foundation, and more. We built our own channels and blogs. It wasn't that we didn't do enough to save you from yourselves. It's that you truly believed everything we said was evil, and that your enablers had your best interests at heart. In terms of what you could possibly get out of feminists, I think you've maxed out. It's not that I don't care that Big Pharma profits from the suffering of effeminate boys or gay men. I absolutely do. I just don't agree that rad fems haven't done enough. I don't know that they could possibly do more. Part of why no one could stop you, when you were in this cult, was the belief that women A) owe you and B) are always letting you down and C) however we're doing it, we're doing it wrong. Transgenderism is not a product of misandry. It's not a product of feminist selfishness. It IS a product of capitalist medicine. It IS a product of traditional values about gender roles. It IS a product of homophobia. It IS a product of post-modernism, where men's sexuality is centered as sacred. Men are the source, either the conservative side, or the progressive one. If we're not willing to admit that, I don't see transgenderism fading away. I don't see justice for detransitioners. I don't see protection for young gay people. Or even just troubled young people.

70 comments

[–] MenHaveItEasy Moid Respecter 12 points

Yeah, and like when males detrans they often throw woe is me pity parties expecting the women to coddle them and be their therapists.

"I'm ugly, a failure, unlovable, I'm an abomination, I'll never be happy."

Eugh. It sounds like incel talk with less obvious women blaming.

First, even when women "trauma dump" they usually reserve that for a trusted group in a space for venting so other people have the choice to interact with traumatic topics. We don't just unload on anyone within orbit.

Second, we go into detail what exactly is bothering us. I've noticed from a lot of detrans women that they vent about the changes testosterone did to their voices. They mourn the loss of their singing voice. How it physically hurts to speak normally, or have to take lessons on how to sound feminine instead of like a croaky teen boy. "I'm so uuugliiiieeee!" Doesn't cut it.

Finally, men whine that women have all kinds of resources if they need help but not them. Whether women admit it or not, they know a lot of us need help with the homelessness, prostitution and domestic violence men put us through. Women also worked to address our own needs and rights, it wasn't just handed to us because "women are loved" or whatever sexist shit men think.

Get together with other detrans people, get into activism, do the hard work to get the help you need.

In terms of what you could possibly get out of feminists, I think you've maxed out.

And you (adult male detransers) have no more right to "get" anything out of us now than you did when you began violating our boundaries and silencing our dissent.

This is such classic personality disorder behavior -- insist that you are what you aren't, manipulate everyone around you accordingly, then blame those who've been rational all along for not hoisting you out of the resulting self-created mess.

So true about the personality disorder. These dudes didn't learn a fucking thing from this experience. Instead they're still blaming everyone else (i.e. women).

[–] Ronja 7 points Edited

Believe me, we would LOVE to have resources to spare.

And if we did, they wouldn't be going to men.

It's time you male detransitioners actually start to take some responsibility for yourselves going forward. Maybe you had someone lead you down the garden path, but it certainly wasn't us. Realize that just because someone fooled you, you chose to indulge in womanface, crossing our boundaries, making girls and women uncomfortable, being a self-insert in your co-workers' professional life, adding rude and authoritarian mental loads to those around you by forcing unnatural and untrue use of language from others and appropriating names that were inappropriate for you. And how much porn did you watch? Never ask us for anything. Instead, see if you can rebuild yourself into someone that isn't disgust-inducing, someone your mother isn't scared and embarrassed to be around, someone who doesn't scream liability when you go in for a job interview.

[–] MaterialReality Only sex is real 6 points

As you have said, feminism is for girls and women,first of all we really cannot address the harms "gender"/"trans" ideology does to boys and men (as radical feminists). However, I have seen that we do anyway by saying "women and children" (i.e., including male children) and sometimes mention how men were harmed by the ideology in order to explain how men continue to cause girls and women harm despite "trans"-identifying or any changes they have made to claim they are the opposite sex ("transition"). We do not have to solve everybody's issues -- we focus on girls and women -- lest we want to have more issues to address than we already have to.

Radical feminists (which already includes criticism of "gender" given that they aim for the abolition of "gender"), "gender"critical individuals, and even those who simply question an aspect of the "gender"/"trans" ideology, have faced any number of these interactions including, as you have mentioned, censorship on various platforms (virtual and physical), change in employment (either work environment or being employed at all), change in volunteer positions, change in opportunities (i.e., "she's a TERF, don't x"), the use of slurs towards them, various types of harassment (non-sexual and sexual harassment via virtual and physical means), abuse, being falsely portrayed as a bigot or Nazi or extremist or other such fallacies or falsities, being sent sexual abuse and exploitation content (including images, videos, etc.) of children and women, being sent sexual content, threats of physical abuse, doxxing, threats of sexual violation including those of rapes, death threats, etc.

Men like the ones you have mention are enjoying their opportunities because these messages come smoother from men, especially those that do not have criticize what we (radical feminists, actual feminists) criticize in the way we do. They do not speak of male violence and socialization as a pervasive worldwide issue but instead speak of male violence as isolated events, generally. It is what you have said, that they really do not properly address "controversial" issues like abortion.

It's much easier to dismiss "trans"-identified people ("trans" people do NOT exist as "transgenderism" does NOT exist; the ideology and its subscribers exist but that does not mean that what the ideology states is reality) as "typical liberals" or the like because it is about being liberal or conservative, left or right, democrat or republican and about being right while being such. It is purposefully framed in this manner, as left vs. right rather than us vs. the issue. It is even easier to "malign gays and lesbians as anti-Western civilization" because of the forced grouping of LGB with "TQ", the latter of which promote men portraying a caricature of women to children which is disgusting within and of itself but even more so when we come to learn that these "shows" are sexual and/or the man or men facilitating these are sex offenders. Of course, this is only one example of the "TQ" actions that make LGB appear as harmful thanks to the forced grouping of real sexualities (the latter) with maladaptive coping mechanisms, fetishes, paraphilias, etc. (the former). Once the view that LGB and "TQ" are an actual cohesive community, a monolithic one that agrees with what "TQ" does, men like the ones you have mentioned feel justified to dismiss LGB (as it is included in "LBGTQ" and other acronyms) as the "crazy left" or go as far as working against LGB to address the "gender"/"trans" and "queer" theory/ideology (all of which work together) because they are virtually always discussed as one group. It reminds me of how I constantly hear and see people, especially more conservative males, making statements such as "feminism destroys itself", "this is what feminists wanted", "where are the feminists now", "feminists said there were more than two genders, now they have to live with it". Essentially, they put the onus on women when women are the ones that brought this up! Radical feminists echoed the voices of former "trans"-identified people, they spoke of the dangers but were they listened to?

Your paragraph "Conservatives are even... NO accountability for that, though. Ever", yes, ma'am. I used to be confused as to why regressive communities would accept "transgenderism" as real but they may do so precisely because they are regressive. In other words, sex-based roles and stereotypes, constituents of "gender" (i.e., femininity and masculinity, social constructs that are used not to describe primary and secondary sex characteristics but rather attributes, behaviors, and roles associated the female and male sex, respectively), are already established in the culture so it may be easy for some to think that a boy that does not enjoy horseplay but instead enjoys ballet, and other hobbies associated with girls and women, as a "girl trapped in a boy's body". If that boy enjoys being a support for the other children in his ballet class, that does not mean he is female, it means he is male with empathy, it is called PERSONALITY (which is influenced by various factors). He is and will always be male regardless of his personality.

I would like to hear more formerly "trans"-identifying homosexual men's stories and would like to see their support of radical feminists as well. I think part of the reason they do not is male socialization, they have sympathy and empathy for themselves other men but fall short in extending this to girls and women. Some simply want to get over this and go on with their lives, not wanting to confront their enablers. A lot of reasons, really. I think more girls and women speak out in comparison to boys and men because we our socialization to be empathetic (AKA what should be a HUMAN characteristic, not one associated with the female sex) coupled with how much we experience makes us boil over and want to speak out, especially for other girls and women! Also, I do not think that conservative media, often the only platform that will provide a platform for criticism of the "gender"/"trans" ideology, will want to voice those critical of conservative points which might be why we do not hear from gay men as much as we do from lesbians and women.

I think many fields further this ideology and should all be named when discussing the hearth and furthering of said ideology. It is such a mess, really.

"Part of why no one could stop you, when you were in this cult, was the belief that women A) owe you and B) are always letting you down and C) however we're doing it, we're doing it wrong.", YES. "Transgenderism" is not a product of misandry, it is a product of misogyny and, as you have stated, capitalist medicine. I do not think that men's sexuality has been centered only recently but I do think that misogyny (including the centering of men, their sexual enjoyment and shame included) has been repackaged. Homophobia as been repackaged also, as unrelated to misogyny, as "gender"-based rather than sex-based. Ultimately, you cannot force someone to get help, to face reality if they are not open to such. In fact, they'll likely dig in their heels to their thought process if they are not truly open to hear something that differs from their thought process. I really hope feminists do not believe that they need to do more for males. Feminism is for females. That is not to say that you do not want to help males (who radical feminism indirectly aids) or even wish harm on them, but you cannot help somebody if you are not stable! When there is a change in cabin pressure on an aeroplane and oxygen masks are deployed, you must put your mask on and stabilize yourself first before running to help anybody else! I reserve a certain amount of sympathy and empathy for people that do not want to -- especially those that cannot -- understand the reality that the people claiming to accept the true you actually do not accept you at all; that they see your sexual orientation (LGB) as something to change and your personality as proof for a need for change. This is especially difficult when the language that has been used to groom you into this set of beliefs has been painted as "equality", "inclusive", etc.

One thing I've noticed when detransitioners tell their stories to conservative influencers, is the way conservative interviewers just ignore the homophobia factor. Detransitioners will explain that their conservative, religious familes and communities played a role, and the interviewers don't interrupt them, but simply say nothing. Then they try to steer the conversation to toxic universities and Woke.

It's sneaky, and destransitioners never seem to pick up on it. They just gush about how pleasant the conservative interviewer was.

[–] hmimperialtortie AGP = evil 5 points

Misogynists who are upset they got their dicks inverted and ruined their health whining that the women they spent their time abusing aren’t making them the centre of the world.

Tough shit. Boo bloody hoo. You’re no better than men who complain because porn left you impotent. You’re still misogynists.

[–] otterstrom 11 points Edited

Also, we simply don’t want to.

Not our battle.

Our focus is women only.

I mean, much like animal welfare and sustainable farming, I want to. But not in the context of feminism. My position against dog fighting is important to me, but it's not about women's rights, kwim? And I don't feel, as a feminist, that I am more obligated to stop animal cruelty than anyone else is.

I do know what you mean. And that’s part of us fighting back from this push to make feminism benefit everyone instead of the people it was created for

Not my circus, not my monkeys

I care about children and teens who are harmed by this, who are sucked into the cult and damaged by their parents' factitious disorder imposed on another (Munchausen by proxy) and narcissistic abuse, but I don't care one single tiny fucking bit about men who self-harmed while chasing an ever-more-elusive orgasm in pursuit of their own damned fetishes.

They can all fuck right off.

Note: Since this type of sentiment has been misunderstood in the past, I would like to emphasize that I stated very clearly that I do not care about MEN who did this in a very specific circumstance. I do care about children and teens. Don't misquote me or twist my words and assume I revel in anyone's pain. I don't. I just don't have the emotional energy to worry about everyone, so I don't.

[–] ItsCalculated 15 points Edited

They behaved like typical males with their misogyny and threats of violence. For that they can fuck right off.

They had a megaphone for their "movement." Now where are they? You hardly see shit from them. Always expecting women to do all the work. The trans community tries to usurp our world, then detransitioners expect us to speak for them? Do they do any work at all, because I don't see men doing any work in the social sphere in any form. They expect women to do it for them or take what we have.

Fuck em.

[–] klo137 7 points Edited

This exactly! If radfems do the work for detransitioned males, they’ll just eventually takeover the entire thing by constantly asking us (or guilt tripping us) to accommodate them and their maleness. Over time they’ll take over what’s little left of radfem communities the way they took over LGB/ libfem spaces and resources.

Why can’t they do the work to advocate against medicalization of transgenderism themselves??

[–] crodish 🔪🍠 2 points Edited

They did have Detrans Awareness Day and all that, plus r/detrans was started by them for them, but the targeting of evil radfems and yet asking for us to boost them seems to be recent and growing in sentiment.

I also haven't heard a male detransitioner apologize to us for the offensiveness of womanface or for violating our spaces (or whatever else they did). We seem to be the doormat, yet again.

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