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Long before the TIM apocalypse, there was the "old-fashioned" variety of crossdressing. But it's not like that's any more acceptable than what we've currently been seeing. And yes, this includes drag queens.

Even if it was being "kept in private"... we had men trying on their partners' clothes, yes, and it's a fetish. It's all rooted in degenerate behavior, and it's all womanface, regardless of whether the man is actually denying physical facts or not. And quite understandably, the women got creeped out, because the men were forcing them to participate in their fetishes. No one believes that it's okay to beat your wife "as long as nobody else knows."

Likewise, both in the past and today, every time you're tempted to make an "exception to the rule" or something for "one of the nice TIMs" or convenience, or even fear of losing employment etc., consider all the victimized women, and children, who have to pay the price. Is that fair?

Call me bigoted or intolerant. But while it almost never works like that the other way around, whenever men put on women's clothing, it's pretty much guaranteed to be for the cheap sexual thrills.

Long before the TIM apocalypse, there was the "old-fashioned" variety of crossdressing. But it's not like that's any more acceptable than what we've currently been seeing. And yes, this includes drag queens. Even if it was being "kept in private"... we had men trying on their partners' clothes, yes, and it's a fetish. It's all rooted in degenerate behavior, and it's all womanface, regardless of whether the man is actually denying physical facts or not. And quite understandably, the women got creeped out, because the men were forcing them to participate in their fetishes. No one believes that it's okay to beat your wife "as long as nobody else knows." Likewise, both in the past and today, every time you're tempted to make an "exception to the rule" or something for "one of the nice TIMs" or convenience, or even fear of losing employment etc., consider all the victimized women, and children, who have to pay the price. Is that fair? Call me bigoted or intolerant. But while it almost never works like that the other way around, whenever men put on women's clothing, it's pretty much guaranteed to be for the cheap sexual thrills.

72 comments

I agree. I’ll just say that clothing happens in the context of culture – as in, there’s nothing inherently “feminine” about flowy, non-trousered garments because men wear these types of garments in various cultures. But in western cultures, certain types of women’s clothing is sexualized and fetishized. It’s almost always these types of clothes that TIMs gravitate toward, and that’s the greatest dead giveaway that this is a sexual fetish for them despite their bullshit saying otherwise.

Bingo. We wear men's clothes because it's more comfortable. But men wear our clothes because they get a sexual thrill from it.

[–] ProxyMusic 9 points Edited

This trend might be most obvious in modern Western cultures, but it's not only in Western cultures that certain types of women's clothing is and historically has been sexualized and fetishized. Look at the highly sexualized, fetishized (and often pedophilic) way that girls and women are portrayed in extremely contemporary popular genres from east Asia like anime and K-pop...

The traditional clothing and accessories worn by/associated with/and forced on women and girls in many Asian, Middle Eastern and African cultures have been sexualized and fetishized by men within those cultures as well as by men outside those cultures with a taste for "exotica" for a long, long time. Indian saris, veils, jewelry, face and body markings like henna tattoos; the Japanese geisha aesthetic; Chinese courtesans; Madame Butterfly; the Asian "lotus blossom" and "dragon lady" looks;, traditional women's Cambodian costumes; Egyptian and Ottoman belly dancers; the varied custom of female veiling that originated in the Middle East; the Bacha Bazi boys who dress and dance "as women" in Afghanistan; traditional women's clothing in Persia/Iran; the "harem look" of girls and women kept as sex slaves and wives sold and forced into marriage in many different non-Western cultures...

https://theculturetrip.com/middle-east/iran/articles/an-introduction-to-irans-traditional-dress/

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bd/Swoboda-shopping_in_harem_mid19th.jpg

https://www.ancient-origins.net/history-ancient-traditions/20000-women-and-100000-castrated-men-serve-emperor-imperial-harem-china-021296

In this clip from 1977, my fave male rock 'n' roll artist of all time demonstrates the politically incorrect way men historically have fetishized Japanese women who embody the "geisha girl" aesthetic in their dress, makeup and manner: https://youtu.be/BauVLD0ldDc

I like this perspective, its certainly something that needs to be considered...cultural context. Id never look at man in a kilt and think he was trying to be woman.

I think its less about the actual garments and more about the performance of the stereotypes. There are some garments that lend themselves more narrowly to a specific gender stereotype (regardless of whom that stereotype is supposed to please) such as short glittery dresses and sky high platform heels. Those items mean something specific when a woman wears them so it can be inferred that a man wearing them means to send the same message. But pants versus skirts or form fitting versus loose is different thing.

I live in a balmy climate year round and the men here wear wraps or sarongs sometimes to be casual, its also part of the cultural dress overall...but so do the women. No one is confused by anyones presentation.

Exactly!!! You cannot ignore the culture in which these things are done. That's actually the whole point. It obviously wouldn't matter in the first place if the culture did not say "women wear X". Any one person's intention or viewpoint is irrelevant-- we need a culture change.