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I am from a very "woke" area. Used to consider myself left-leaning, liberal, all that. In the past few years, after traveling, getting pretty introverted, and drifting out of leftie circles, I've fallen completely off of the political spectrum.

Anyhow, I moved out of state a few years ago. I went back home for a visit to the woke area last week, and I swear, without my prompting, like 5 of the friends I met with eventually came around to the "I'm so over this pronoun nonsense" conversation. The place I used to work at now has like 5-6 "them"s. I am so glad I got out of that circle/mentality, especially the fear of disagreeing with it.

Naturally, I ran with it. I told them they were right; it is indeed exhausting and silly; plus, "oh do you know about the men in women's prisons? Do you know how many young girls are falling for this?" I tried not to get too TERFy too fast, but when I see an opening, I can't help it. It felt so relieving to us all to not be suppressing our true feelings on this anymore.

My best talk was with a friend who is a high school teacher. She kept saying that it wasn't entirely right for me to "invalidate them" since so many of her students earnestly, sincerely believe they are the opposite gender/sex.

I calmly yet firmly explained that delusion can be very, very compelling - but is delusion nonetheless. That if I was in her position, I'd listen compassionately to my students but I would never actually believe they were born in the wrong body, because it makes no goddamn sense.

I tried to get clarity from her: Does she believe that is possible? What is in the "wrong body"? Fundamentally, where is the person that is somehow separate from the body and thus in the "wrong" one?

Of course, she could not answer because the supposed "mismatched gender person" is entirely a fiction, every time. No matter how sincerely one believes they're a space alien (I've met psychotic people who wholeheartedly believe this), they still aren't one! You can listen & gently question without becoming totally insane yourself and believing that there's some mythical woman trapped inside a teenage boy's body.

I said that this gender thing is the only issue we cannot question therapeutically. If someone with depression tells their counselor, "I'm depressed because I hate my job and I desperately need a new one," a skilled counselor will ask a series of questions. They'll say "okay, I hear you - so how did you get into this line of work? How would you feel about maybe a different job with the same company? Are you trying to meet an existential problem with an employment solution? Do you think that'll work?" Etc. etc.

My point is that with any other kind of distress, we explore its causes and potential ways to resolve it. Here, we're just supposed to start using the new pronouns and immediately accept that our old kids/parents/friends are gone (or perhaps evolved into a higher, non-binary state). We're supposed to blindly agree that this course of action is what they need to be happy.

She said that was a good point.

Anyway, I feel I've written too long on this, but I just wanted to say that my trip was awesome!! I have so many more old friends who are open to questioning this belief system IF THEY ONLY FEEL SAFE TO DO SO <3

Edited to add: Also an amazing talk with my sister, whom I've struggled to feel close with for a while. She was like "if one of my kids came home saying this stuff about being another gender, I'd pull them out of school immediately and we'd travel the world together with no peer influence and that way they could actually 'find themselves.'" I came away with a brand new respect for her.

I am from a very "woke" area. Used to consider myself left-leaning, liberal, all that. In the past few years, after traveling, getting pretty introverted, and drifting out of leftie circles, I've fallen completely off of the political spectrum. Anyhow, I moved out of state a few years ago. I went back home for a visit to the woke area last week, and I *swear,* without my prompting, like 5 of the friends I met with eventually came around to the "I'm so over this pronoun nonsense" conversation. The place I used to work at now has like 5-6 "them"s. I am so glad I got out of that circle/mentality, especially the fear of disagreeing with it. Naturally, I ran with it. I told them they were right; it is indeed exhausting and silly; plus, "oh do you know about the men in women's prisons? Do you know how many young girls are falling for this?" I tried not to get too TERFy too fast, but when I see an opening, I can't help it. It felt so relieving to us all to *not* be suppressing our true feelings on this anymore. My best talk was with a friend who is a high school teacher. She kept saying that it wasn't entirely right for me to "invalidate them" since so many of her students earnestly, sincerely believe they are the opposite gender/sex. I calmly yet firmly explained that delusion can be very, very compelling - but is delusion nonetheless. That if I was in her position, I'd listen compassionately to my students but I would never *actually* believe they were born in the wrong body, because it makes no goddamn sense. I tried to get clarity from her: Does *she* believe that is possible? *What* is in the "wrong body"? Fundamentally, where is the person that is somehow separate from the body and thus in the "wrong" one? Of course, she could not answer because the supposed "mismatched gender person" is entirely a fiction, every time. No matter how sincerely one believes they're a space alien (I've met psychotic people who wholeheartedly believe this), they still aren't one! You can listen & gently question without becoming totally insane yourself and believing that there's some mythical woman trapped inside a teenage boy's body. I said that this gender thing is the only issue we cannot question therapeutically. If someone with depression tells their counselor, "I'm depressed because I hate my job and I desperately need a new one," a skilled counselor will ask a series of questions. They'll say "okay, I hear you - so how did you get into this line of work? How would you feel about maybe a different job with the same company? Are you trying to meet an existential problem with an employment solution? Do you think that'll work?" Etc. etc. My point is that with any other kind of distress, we explore its causes and potential ways to resolve it. Here, we're just supposed to start using the new pronouns and immediately accept that our old kids/parents/friends are gone (or perhaps evolved into a higher, non-binary state). We're supposed to blindly agree that this course of action is what they need to be happy. She said that was a good point. Anyway, I feel I've written too long on this, but I just wanted to say that my trip was awesome!! I have so many more old friends who are open to questioning this belief system IF THEY ONLY FEEL SAFE TO DO SO <3 Edited to add: Also an amazing talk with my sister, whom I've struggled to feel close with for a while. She was like "if one of my kids came home saying this stuff about being another gender, I'd pull them out of school immediately and we'd travel the world together with no peer influence and that way they could actually 'find themselves.'" I came away with a brand new respect for her.

17 comments

The clinical differences between dealing with depression and gender dysphoria usually entail the amount of treatments available before going to the most extreme step.

For example, shock therapy can be used to treat depression. Most doctors warn against it because of the risk it poses. It’s often a last resort.

With gender dysphoria, though, it’s like, someone hates the body they were born in and they jump straight to removing body parts, or allow new ones to grow. Makes zero sense.

And questioning/pushing back on “faulty cognitions,” as a therapist of my acquaintance calls them.

“My mother hates me.” “Does she hate you? Is it possible she loves you but is deeply flawed and did hurtful things? How does it reframe your own self-worth if you consider that you are worthy of love, and your mother does love you, but still hurt you?”

“I’m stupid because I’m failing undergrad.” “Well, is the stress of living alone and the unhealthy aspects of dorm life hurting you academically? You’ve achieved in other arenas, so you are clearly smart, but a lot of factors in your lifestyle could be hampering your academic performance.”

“I’m really a woman.” “Certainly, Josephine, I will write this letter supporting you starting estrogen immediately, and here is the name of a surgeon who will perform gender affirmation surgery.”

I said that this gender thing is the only issue we cannot question therapeutically. If someone with depression tells their counselor, "I'm depressed because I hate my job and I desperately need a new one," a skilled counselor will ask a series of questions. They'll say "okay, I hear you - so how did you get into this line of work? How would you feel about maybe a different job with the same company? Are you trying to meet an existential problem with an employment solution? Do you think that'll work?" Etc. etc.

This is a most excellent point.

[–] Lawful 12 points Edited

I'm thrilled for you!

I have so many more old friends who are open to questioning this belief system IF THEY ONLY FEEL SAFE TO DO SO

That's exactly my experience too. Sure, I've lost a friend or two over expressing radfem beliefs (though I've fought with more about prostitution than about trans), but I've also had friends who vehemently disagreed or completely shut down the conversation, only to come to me some months later asking to talk about transgender topics because they thought about it and came to some conclusions and know I won't rip their head off for saying them. Or friends who brought it up by themselves because they'd been itching to say something to anyone who'll listen without screaming at them. It really is worth letting your friends know they can talk to you, and that unpopular opinions are safe with you. You'll never know what they'll come to you with!

if one of my kids came home saying this stuff about being another gender, I'd pull them out of school immediately and we'd travel the world together with no peer influence and that way they could actually 'find themselves.'"

I LOVE this approach!

Yeah, I think it's pretty great. She and her husband are all about their kids, in what I think is a very healthy and genuine way. They're good parents with their heads on straight and I am so proud of them.

So glad you spoke up! Courage calls to courage everywhere! Even in wokeistan!

[–] Rue 9 points

Good for you. Gender is a social construct right, but then why do they need breasts and skirts and long hair?

Heck, we now just have to accept the possibility of some AGP swinging his meat around in our locker rooms at the gym because their feelings are more important. This country loves to punish women.

I think you mean “a woman swinging her penis around,” hater.

[–] Rue 1 points

Oh my gosh, please don't cancel me!

I expect you have already cancelled your self, now that you realize the literal violence you committed.

Lovely! So glad that you're able to talk much more openly about your gender critical beliefs with people you care about: a great gift!