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(Disclaimer: I'm not an academic - please feel free to correct any falsehoods or misinterpretations. Also, not sure if this is the correct circle, mods - please advise if not!)

I've been thinking about this a lot lately, as I'm sure many of you have as well. It's been alarming to see how well & widely gender ideology has been accepted in universities and academic circles - at least in woke Western countries/cities.

I never went to uni but I always considered it a place where young people learn critical thinking, analysis, backing their own standpoint in a well-researched manner etc. Well, up until recently. Universities and many prestigious academic publications have caved in to the trans cult and while some debate is still allowed, it has become increasingly difficult for people to oppose the gender dogma.

I'm personally interested in how this was allowed to happen in the first place, but I'm perhaps even more curious (or anxious...) to figure out how all of this can be reversed in years to come. I know I'm jumping ahead but anyway.

Kids are being taught anti-science trans doctrines and baseless reality denial from very early on nowadays. Young people in universities are also buying into this pseudo progressive groupthink in swathes. How will this shape our view with regards to education at large, and even more so, how is it going to change the public's views about studies & research and highly educated people? I tend to think we're sowing the seeds of mistrust already, by indoctrinating (and effectively brainwashing) youngsters to believe in falsehoods. Am I overreacting here?

I feel like the "post-truth" era has begun already, with all the 'fake news' et cetera, but instead of backing out of it it looks like we're actually accelerating towards a more preposterous, lie-filled world as we speak. How are we supposed to change the course? How are people going to trust academic studies and processes in the future if we allow this to continue? How can we urge people to think for themselves again, to question things without fear of cancellation and public humiliation? To maintain their natural curiosity and contest each other's (and their own) ideas? What will need to happen in higher education especially to back out of this black-and-white type of thinking?

Now, I know that dissidents exist in these circles already and they're simply afraid to speak out, but there are also numerous people who have bought into this gender mania wholeheartedly - how will this shape our educational establishments on a larger scale, and how long will it take to revert it? Are we in danger of falling into some kind of idiocracy, where academia in general has lost its plot so completely that the "regular Jane(/Joe)" no longer believes what well-studied people are saying? Where they are not even interested in what is being discussed as it has become so obviously nonsensical?

Again - am I simply overreacting here? I sure hope I am but I still feel uncertain. What are your opinions on this? What's the aftermath going to look like from this perspective? Will things fall back into normal or do we perhaps need to renovate the system somehow, all things considered?

(Disclaimer: I'm *not* an academic - please feel free to correct any falsehoods or misinterpretations. Also, not sure if this is the correct circle, mods - please advise if not!) I've been thinking about this a lot lately, as I'm sure many of you have as well. It's been alarming to see how well & widely gender ideology has been accepted in universities and academic circles - at least in woke Western countries/cities. I never went to uni but I always considered it a place where young people learn critical thinking, analysis, backing their own standpoint in a well-researched manner etc. Well, up until recently. Universities and many prestigious academic publications have caved in to the trans cult and while *some* debate is still allowed, it has become increasingly difficult for people to oppose the gender dogma. I'm personally interested in how this was allowed to happen in the first place, but I'm perhaps even more curious (or anxious...) to figure out how all of this can be reversed in years to come. I know I'm jumping ahead but anyway. Kids are being taught anti-science trans doctrines and baseless reality denial from very early on nowadays. Young people in universities are also buying into this pseudo progressive groupthink in swathes. How will this shape our view with regards to education at large, and even more so, how is it going to change the public's views about studies & research and highly educated people? I tend to think we're sowing the seeds of mistrust already, by indoctrinating (and effectively brainwashing) youngsters to believe in falsehoods. Am I overreacting here? I feel like the "post-truth" era has begun already, with all the 'fake news' et cetera, but instead of backing out of it it looks like we're actually accelerating towards a more preposterous, lie-filled world as we speak. How are we supposed to change the course? How are people going to trust academic studies and processes in the future if we allow this to continue? How can we urge people to *think for themselves* again, to question things without fear of cancellation and public humiliation? To maintain their natural curiosity and contest each other's (and their own) ideas? What will need to happen in higher education especially to back out of this black-and-white type of thinking? Now, I know that dissidents exist in these circles already and they're simply afraid to speak out, but there are *also* numerous people who have bought into this gender mania wholeheartedly - how will this shape our educational establishments on a larger scale, and how long will it take to revert it? Are we in danger of falling into some kind of idiocracy, where academia in general has lost its plot so completely that the "regular Jane(/Joe)" no longer believes what well-studied people are saying? Where they are not even interested in what is being discussed as it has become so obviously nonsensical? Again - am I simply overreacting here? I sure hope I am but I still feel uncertain. What are your opinions on this? What's the aftermath going to look like from this perspective? Will things fall back into normal or do we perhaps need to renovate the system somehow, all things considered?

32 comments

[–] lucrecia 27 points (+27|-0)

I am worried there will be a backlash against the study of humanities subjects, and the arts will suffer as a result. I think maybe we'll see other, informal institutions replace some of the more famous ones in terms of places where conversations between academics actually happen.

[–] vitunrotta [OP] 14 points (+14|-0) Edited

That's what I fear as well. What a gigantic disservice to our societies. I'm baffled as to how these fields can redeem themselves. I'm guessing it'll be a long & hard road back to a somewhat respectable status.

ETA: Perhaps you're right though (I hope you are!) and we can widen our understanding of establishments that offer a free space for people to exchange ideas without fear of repercussion.

[–] lucrecia 1 points (+1|-0)

Yeah, I feel like this is kind of already happening. "Gender Studies" departments went off the wall, so now feminists have set up alternative networks online. The perk with much of the humanities is that they're not tied down with costly equipment. If an institution is useless, the good people can leave and set up shop elsewhere. Looking at history it's always like "$World-famous-figure was blacklisted from academia for ten years because they said water was wet. They would meet their would-be students in a rickety cat cafe and theorize about water together, making several breakthroughs in the field of fluid dynamics during their exile. At the age of 93, they were given a million medals by the institution that had previously kicked them out." I think pretty much every historical figure I like has been blacklisted for some sort of blasphemy at some point. Plus it's easier these days to stop book-burners destroying works for good. Just a shame they can cause such a mess in the meantime.

[–] wildpansy 6 points (+6|-0)

But is it possible to have an education in those fields without political bias? If you look at the reddit science sub you'll see a whole bunch of social science statistics to "prove" that conservatives bad and stupid, liberals smart and good. Zero nuance, zero objectivity, not a soul to counter the obviously biased study with some other study showing the positive side of conservatives - why? Why are there no conservatives in social science?

Science is about facts, not ideology, so if every study seems to be done to confirm some sort of ideology can the field even be called science? "Statistics to validate propaganda" would be a better description of the field. Not to mention other fields like race theory, women's studies, there's no way around the political bias in all of that, noone that doesn't follow the ideology would even bother to study those subjects. Their very existence is a political statement. The fields seem to be inherently biased with zero possibility of improving, why do people even think that human society can be studied the same way people study an anthill when only one of those things can be looked at from the outside and without really caring about what happens to any individual ant in it? Humanities without politics may simply be impossible.

[–] vitunrotta [OP] 5 points (+5|-0) Edited

I think it's very much possible to have education without a political bias but our establishments as of now are very politically charged, unfortunately. This needs to change, obviously, but it won't be easy.

Why are there no conservatives in social science?

My two cents on this. The more left-leaning people tend to think of society more as a project for all of us - they're generally interested in looking at class differences, for example. Many (true) lefties want to see a more equal socioeconomic landscape. Whereas the fiscally conservative people do not want or indeed, need such a thing. Their main focus is on retaining their already good position. Therefore, they quite literally do not profit from social science - it but undermines their point that "poor people are poor because they made bad choices/are lazy/stupid" etc.

I'm quite the leftie myself so I'm personally very interested in social sciences, but I too would gladly see a broader take on the main subjects. Right now this is an extremely left-leaning area, but I don't see why it couldn't widen to at least include middle-class (and its rapid decline) as well. Having said that, as mentioned I do not think the economically well off people would ever really be that interested in studying social sciences as it quite honestly completely contradicts their worldview & values.

Edited grammar.

[–] remquarqk 2 points (+2|-0)

As is, many social science fields are simply incompatible with current conservative ideologies. I don't really think that's a bad thing either. In political science for instance, I've known people to become increasingly critical of all political parties, but still they do fall more on the left side of the political spectrum despite this but it's always very reasonable and understanding of a more moderate take.

Another neutral one is economics, but still you have most people in higher academia still left of center. Why? Because people understand that you need policies to counter a totally free market in modern times. Other than that, many are very apolitical, and you're a fool in this area without an understanding of nuance.

I think gender studies and philosophy subjects are a different thing, and that's where things get more crazy. I don't really think however other subjects fall into this category.

One thing that's personally scared me is seeing the rise of gender ideology in the field of public health. Supposedly a field that is supposed to be more reliant on empirical evidence, it's been overrun with people making leaps of faith. A lot of total nonsense papers. I think this area is where I'm sensing the alarm bells going off.

[–] vitunrotta [OP] 1 points (+1|-0) Edited

One thing that's personally scared me is seeing the rise of gender ideology in the field of public health. Supposedly a field that is supposed to be more reliant on empirical evidence, it's been overrun with people making leaps of faith. A lot of total nonsense papers. I think this area is where I'm sensing the alarm bells going off.

This, this and this. It's astounding to see how easily TRA's managed to slither into a field that one would expect has high standards for any new medical practices. Well, I've been wrong before...

One other thing is feminist organizations and associations. Late last year I noticed that an org in my country that is supposed to be for women, by women, about women's rights was unironically using the word "menstuator" in one of their Facebook posts. I wrote a critical reply to them but never received a reply, even after I chased them (surprise, surprise).

A woman I know volunteers at another association that (and I quote directly) "...is meant for every woman and girl suffering from abuse, threats or fear." Disappointingly, they too are veering towards trans mania. At least this one hasn't gone completely bonkers yet but I fear in time they'll adopt the woke agenda as well. It's sickening. :(

ETA: I'm speaking of organizations & associations in my home country.

[–] lucrecia 1 points (+1|-0)

There can be some political bias without it completely torpedoing someone's education, though. You can still teach the principles of critical thinking, abstract reasoning, logic, data-collection methodologies and weaknesses, testing a theory, constructing a valid argument, taking historical and other context into account, providing sources, reading closely, actively looking for opposing evidence etc. An individual lecturer may have skew in which readings they recommend, but different lecturers will have different politics, and treating the readings critically and arguing over interpretations is often the point. And courses are supposed to give students a survey of areas and opinions within a discipline, and help them to find information in their own, not tell them what to think. So on a sociology course, someone may eg: outline different types of feminism, but even if the lecturer does so in a biased way, part of the student's job is to read more widely on the things they cover in the lecture and make up their own mind. I definitely wouldn't take reddit as representative; there are conservatives in the social sciences, even if reddit don't go looking. For any given subject, and any given course, you'd expect to draw different boundaries around what is agreed, what is up for questioning and what's out of scope, and those boundaries do not need to be anywhere near as narrow or homogenous as some activists would prefer. In theory, the only foundation necessary for "Women's Studies" is that you believe there are such things as women. In practice I'd expect courses vary with how much they expect students to buy into specific feminist theory, which is fine if people can know ahead of time and can choose where they study.

So anyway yeah humanities don't need to be completely apolitical to be rigorous. You can still mark down a student if they turn in an essay that just makes stuff up with 0 sources, or insists on a conclusion without arguing it, or smears people for no reason. Doesn't matter if the lecturer shares their politics if the lecturer is competent. At the upper end, it'll be imperfect; you might see inflated marks for work that's only fairly good, or lose a few marks if the lecturer feels more motivated to disagree with you. There's only so much a mark scheme can do. But there's a huge gulf between losing say 5% on a paper unfairly and being taught completely unsubstantiated claims for 3 years.

[–] wildpansy 0 points (+0|-0)

Academics can indeed do their best to treat their field objectively without bringing personal bias into it, but what if they don't? You can't provide any kind of rigorous, truly objective proof for anything in these fields. It just can't be done, because when it comes time to discuss what is and isn't the correct point of view, there are no formulas to use to check who is correct and so the professor needs to use subjective judgement to decide who has the better argument. Whether or not their decision is biased, there is no way to tell, because there is no objective way to determine this.

In theory, the only foundation necessary for "Women's Studies" is that you believe there are such things as women.

Yes, but that's not how people choose their field of study. You can say the same about biology, but in reality people don't see it the same way because biology is universal, women's studies is personal, it's about a specific subgroup of people and the only reason the field exists is inherently political. There's no such thing as men's studies even though there are plenty of people who know men exist and may be interested in studying them. The politics are inherent to the field. The US provides funding for Pakistan gender studies academics - this is for a reason, so how can it be an objective field when the academics know that if their studies go against the dominant political ideology in the west, there will be no more studies? It's not like science where the country will need people educated in it regardless of politics. It's a field that isn't taught unless a political ideology enforces it.

[–] yesisaiditxx 3 points (+3|-0) Edited

Yep. Eventually the humanities will lose its funding and big donors. Mostly majorly wealthy people, I presume, will reach their limit on condoning woke education. Then it will be disregarded even more by universities because even when times are golden humanities numbers pale in comparison to fields like law and STEM. So the new divisions of a reputable education will be whether or not you went to a school that excels in those fields— if you have a liberal arts degree it’ll be useless. I’m a lover of the humanities and find it sad.

[–] EscapedDrone 18 points (+18|-0)

One current impact is that there is a lot of "TERFy" or common sense scholarship that is being silenced or censored. Since TRA scholarship is being highlighted/advanced we could end up with a situation where the cannon of accepted scholarship is essentially flawed and harmful to academic progress moving forward.

Since tenure is based on publication and to a lesser degree, presentation and the TRAs are the ones with access to those experiences now - the majority of tenured faculty will hold TRA views. It will take a significant amount of time for the academic culture to change in a significant manner. Very few people are willing to welcome or engage with materials that vilify the work that their career is built on.

[–] vitunrotta [OP] 13 points (+13|-0)

Good - and concerning - points.

I'm also wondering if there's danger that once more, men will have the majority in higher education, regardless of the field? As long as this nonsense is allowed to continue unchecked I fear women's numbers will again diminish in universities. I really don't want to sound so pessimistic but I can't help it. I'm especially worried for GC women (why not other kinds of nonconformists as well) who will be pushed out and/or silenced due to their "wrong beliefs." This is already happening, as we know.

[–] EscapedDrone 9 points (+9|-0)

I know that TIMs are taking scholarships and fellowships designated for women students - especially in STEM programs. Those scholarships and fellowships are the beginning of a pipeline to academic success. It TIMs are taking the available places, fewer women will receive the funds and opportunities to participate in research which build a strong academic career.

[–] vitunrotta [OP] 7 points (+7|-0)

Exactly what I was thinking as well. Just when things started to look a little bit better for women in that field especially. Infuriating. I don't have kids but I do have nieces and nephews - I guess I ought to start talking to my siblings about this more seriously to make sure they pay extra attention especially to their daughters' educational possibilities in the future.

It's a bit depressing to think that for the current young adult generation (is it Gen Z?) things are looking pretty grim at the moment, but I think this can be salvaged for those who are still kids as we speak.

[–] Amareldys 2 points (+2|-0)

No, too many women are getting degrees, which is coinciding with a lot of articles and attitudes about how college degrees aren't worth anything. It's the opposite. As men go to trade schools those will gain prestige, and colleges will be considered fluffy degrees for Beckies.

[–] Felis_margarita 4 points (+4|-0) Edited

It’s alarming that gender critical papers are shut down and TRAs try to (depending on the field, often successfully) harass gc researchers into silence. We are getting junk science that serves to uphold rather than study an ideology. We should be collecting both sex and gender identity so that we know who is doing what and why, but that is taboo.

The analogy I keep coming back to that relates to my field of study is:

This is what the world would be like if we only allowed studies funded by fossil fuel companies to direct the discourse around climate change. It is ideologically and politically motivated, and causing the totally wrong conclusions to be drawn and harmful policies to be implemented! What if no one was allowed to independently study climate change?

The current situation in academia is absolutely intolerable because researchers are ideologically motivated and shutting down good science.

[–] vitunrotta [OP] 4 points (+4|-0)

Spot on.

We are getting junk science that serves to uphold rather than study an ideology.

Ah sheesh, isn't this the most infuriating thing ever. I got laughed at (and I mean, I can't really blame the TRA's who chuckled at me...) when I pointed out that some studies & analyses regarding gender ideology are inherently biased and should not be trusted blindly. But they had quoted a text from Psychology Today - if memory serves correctly - so I actually ended up sounding like a loony conspiracy theorist in that discussion, because the publication is quite well known & revered. It didn't make their claim sound any more logical or reasonable but they did have this respected publication that backed their claims.

It's really unacceptable that ideologists, whichever way they may lean, can spew their nonsense in any and every acknowledged medium nowadays - and nobody dares to contradict them (even, or perhaps especially, in the academic circles). Makes me mad just thinking about it.

[–] Felis_margarita 2 points (+2|-0)

Academia is going to have to have a real "come to Jesus" moment where it has to face the fact that their ideological pursuits have truly made it so that even well-educated people are skeptical about it's value. UC Berkeley is one of the top universities in my field, but because they leave "Grace" Lavery where he is--despite the fact he is ideologically driven and twists other people's words and arguments so disingenuously he's an embarrassment to scholarship....sorry, I just have such a hard time respecting the entire institution of Berkeley anymore, even if my particular field is (so far) mostly safe from gender ideology. These people are damaging the reputation of academia, science, scholarship, and entire institutions.

Ugh. Your post resonated with me so much (probably because I'm in graduate school).

[–] lulululululu 12 points (+12|-0)

I went to one of those woke universities that are obsessed with gender ideology in the not so distant past, and I found my education there to be a complete waste of my time and my money. Although I didn't fully understand how bad the situation there was until I graduated and I had spent more time in the real world around normal people, I quickly realized that I hadn't learned much critical thinking, but rather, how to parrot all the "right" opinions and how to toe the woke line. There was a culture of censorship and of fear on campus. You couldn't voice a different opinion or even ask a question that challenged people to see things in a different light without being shouted down. Of course, this happened in regards to gender, but it happened in regards to other issues too, like race. I just loved it when woke white people insinuated that I, an actual woman of color who spent much of my life outside of the US in a country full of non-white people, was racist, because I disagreed with them! How am I racist against myself?! I should've saved my money and gone to a cheaper school.

At the moment, I don't see things getting much better tbh. At least at my university, I found that the older students indoctrinated the younger students as soon as they entered the campus, and the younger students, desperate to break free from their homes and their families and to be accepted on campus, immediately adopted their ideology. A lot of professors, even the woke ones, knew deep down inside that the situation on our campus had spun out of control (I have some WILD stories from my time that I desperately wish I could share but I don't want to be doxxed lol) and tried very hard to reason with students but at that point they wouldn't listen. After all, the professors are "cis" or "white" or (insert other oppressive identity here). In the end, I think that society will just become more polarized, between upwardly mobile college graduates who'll be spewing this nonsense and working class people who didn't go to college who'll be resentful of this nonsense. That includes working class POC. These college graduates think that they can speak on behalf of all POC, but in my experience, working class POC who don't spend all of their time online hate this nonsense as much as white working class. Since I don't think the situation in universities is going to get better, the only way to get around it is to build a genuine coalition of working class people of all stripes that doesn't need the woke upwardly mobile college graduate type to survive.

[–] wildpansy 8 points (+9|-1)

Without idpol to separate the working class, the working class would have power in numbers. The current events in America, BLM and the Capitol incident are examples of how the tiny amount of rich people can take that power away by creating division.

Police brutality against the poor was an issue for both whites and blacks, but it was made into a race issue, thus making sure that a big part of the population would be against any expensive changes. Biden also made sure to mention his policies would be to help black business owners - WTF? Of course the reason is simple - they want a big part of the population to be against any improvement. If both parties wanted change that would mean change would actually have to happen aka they would need to spend money to help everyone, with a divided population they can just make promises and when it doesn't happen, tell the poors to blame the other poors who YOU pissed off with your intentionally discriminatory proposals. The massive influence American politics has on the politics of every other country is more worrying now than ever. Not that places like China and Russia dominating would bring any improvement.

[–] vitunrotta [OP] 5 points (+5|-0)

Ugh, identity politics. The most corrosive, regressive, dividing ideology. Alongside with our darling gender ideology, of course, although they're actually just the same thing in different packaging. Or perhaps more accurately, id pol/post modernism gave birth to the gender cult.

The Oppression Olympics truly prevent people from uniting - instead, we on the left (or some of us) are now only obsessed with our own position in the oppression pyramid and are unable to see that it is, in most cases, our economic class that truly unites us the most. (Note - obviously many other things have to be taken into consideration when we speak about the plight of the working class, for example, but this could be done in a constructive manner instead of this... this naval-gazing stupidity.)

The massive influence American politics has on the politics of every other country is more worrying now than ever.

Couldn't agree more. It has been worrying to see. Even in my home country which by definition is a socialist democracy, I have seen the rise of LEFT or RIGHT type of thinking - which does nothing to address any real issues. It's more like a shouting competition, where the "lefties" moan about id pol and "right-wingers" complain about immigrants and that's that. Where is the nuance? Where is the open discourse? Where is the will to create a more equal nation to us all? A lot of people actually fall into the (almost non-existent) center nowadays but they don't seem to have a party that would stand for them anymore. Political homelessness is increasing. But I digress.

I think that alongside with a reform (or correction) in our educational establishments, a larger political revolution needs to take place. There is certainly a huge demand for a more rational, objective take on politics. Both the "left" and the "right" are to blame for the current divisive political climate.

[–] littleowl12 7 points (+7|-0)

It's a sad day when you have to ask yourself- "What's going to be more damaging to personality and psychological well-being? Evergreen State College or Bob Jones University?"

[–] zuubat 6 points (+7|-1) Edited

THANK YOU, lulu and wild.

The post asks the $64,000 question and each of you provides the $64,000 answer.

I thank you especially for addressing wokeness beyond the trans insanity and particularly wrt race and class.

I don't talk much of the trans nonsense with my woker friends, but when they express their shock that Mr. Trump significantly boosted his share of the non-white vote this time around, I say, Funny, I am not at all surprised. Then I mention some of the points that you both make so well here.

It is beyond perverse that even as Trump's hoodlums were plotting their murderous rampage, House Democrats felt their top priority was to censor words like "mother" and "father."

[–] littleowl12 11 points (+11|-0)

I think there's some evidence that we are at "peak college" and in about ten years higher education is going to go through a crisis. Maybe sooner, with all this bullshit going on.

Tuition in the US is so high that often the degree you get just cripples you for life. The jobs you can get with it don't pay enough to pay back the loans. You might be better off with an associate's degree.

Because of Woke brainwashing, a lot of colleges are simply fraud, too. You are trained NOT to think critically or skeptically, you are trained NOT to think outside the box, you are trained NOT to take risks. Well educated, savvy parents will get wise to this. Evergreen is already suffering low enrollment because of their Woke infamy. It's basically a community college and fairly cheap, but it's not free. Considering your kid likely won't learn shit there, why pay anything at all? And it's more than brainwashing- it's the outright falsehoods and bad scholarship that are routinely passed off as fact.

I'd sure love to know if the unaccredited, creepazoid conservative stronghold colleges are seeing an uptick in applicants.

[–] vitunrotta [OP] 2 points (+2|-0)

You are trained NOT to think critically or skeptically, you are trained NOT to think outside the box, you are trained NOT to take risks.

This is damn frightening if you ask me. You pour a massive amount of money (in the U.S. especially) in order to... what, exactly? To learn some mantras and thoughts that have been readily chewed for you to swallow as they are? It's like the entire woke part of the Western world has become a damn cult. And as we know, cults don't allow any progress - in fact they prefer that people do not think for themselves and voilà, the status quo remains unchanged. Yay?!

Unsure of the situation in the States as you do have actual conservative universities there - whereas in my country there's no real difference, as all unis are state funded. In any case it'll be interesting - and concerning - to see how this all plays out in years to come, when more and more people wake up to the fact that the supposedly smart people have been lying to us all.

[–] littleowl12 1 points (+1|-0)

There are very few conservative colleges, and a lot of them are unaccredited. So they're a waste of money by definition.

[–] vitunrotta [OP] 0 points (+0|-0)

Thanks for the correction! So is it accurate to assume most universities/colleges are liberal (and therefore inclined to jump in the trans wagon)?

[–] Amareldys 1 points (+1|-0) Edited

College is losing its value in America It's too expensive for the amount of extra money you will earn afterwards, it's too associated with the left, and worst of all, it now consists of more women than men therefor society must consider it worthless.

I think a few top Universities will keep their prestige as trade schools are encouraged, and the remaining colleges will be sort of finishing schools for rich women.

[–] vitunrotta [OP] 3 points (+3|-0)

I'm not from the States, in my (Nordic) home country things are different - especially regarding the cost of education. In most cases people do end up with a student loan but they are generally reasonable. This varies a bit depending on the field though but overall the vast majority is able to pay back their loans in a pretty decent time frame. Women count for approx. 60% of university students from where I'm from, and while it's a majority I'm not (yet, at least) seeing an overall change in attitudes with regards to uni studies (meaning, they aren't disrespected because it's laydee stuff etc.).

However, in my country people are currently vastly over educated. There's simply no more jobs for people with a graduate degree, or in some cases two or more. At least it certainly doesn't guarantee anything as it doesn't really allow you to stand out anymore.

Therefore trade schools are starting to become more popular once more - or they will in the near future. Obviously we come from very different POV's here, understandably so as we're from vastly different countries. My main concern here is the fact that places that have previously been regarded as havens of critical thinking, new ideas and societal progress are becoming places where nobody is allowed to truly immerse themselves in proper debate anymore. This, in my humble opinion, is a dangerous direction we're headed at.

As I mentioned I myself am not a uni student and I'm perfectly capable of thinking critically etc., so I'm by no means suggesting that people who go to trade schools are "not as smart" or some other BS; nevertheless trade schools do not really rely on analytical thinking or understanding 'the bigger picture' with regards to societal differences etc., and I believe we do need people who have this sort of wider concept of the societies we live in.

To sum my ramble up, my main point is that the overall environment in universities is starting to - or perhaps has already started to - veer towards a "let's repeat mantras and disregard healthy skepticism, we have already decided your opinion for you" type of thinking. Hope that made sense.

[–] Alexiares 0 points (+0|-0) Edited

It is going to depend so much on which country or region we consider. The mess so many post-secondary institutions are in is primarily from neoliberal dumbassery, of which wokism and trans-extremism are the ultimate expressions really. I don't agree that the humanities will be any worse off than before per se from this, because the main reason they get and got into any degree of trouble was from going along with the ridiculous narratives about STEM.

This is anecdata of course, but I have both STEM and humanities degrees, and the sad fact is so many people are competing for STEM jobs in my neck of the woods that unemployment and severely depressed wages are common. In the end I won employment in a different field by a combination of luck and the skills I built up from my humanities degree including self-taught programming and computer administration skills. Employers are seeking more and more often for humanities majors because they need people whose literacy and related reading and writing skills are solid – and they often aren't until students have done an additional two to three years post-secondary even if they don't finish a degree or certificate, because secondary school instruction is so screwed up.

In Canada, I suspect that the mid-level universities that have tried to be neoliberal darlings are going to get it solid on the chin, and the people who will suffer the most won't be the ones who should! The way things are trending, it is likely that older established fields will get shaken up in the humanities, while the newer ones will get severely cut and either kicked out the door or consolidated into something with a mealy mouthed title like "media studies." That won't save the study of ancient languages in them though.