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So I am a big fan of this game, Rimworld. Rimworld has a pretty extensive modding community and before I got into Rimworld, or at least before I got into modding Rimworld, there was a ton of drama regarding this one mod creator.

Disclaimer: I've only been reading about what occured from secondhand accounts, so this information may not be 100% accurate.

The mod creator, Alice, had published quite a few very popular mods, and apparently at some point they had asked the creator of the game if they could include in-game advertisements, basically adware, to their feminist 'charity'. The creator of the game said no. Alice proceeded to make a post on reddit stating that the creator of the game is a misogynist and that this is all because of the patriachy, oppression, etc, put all of her mods under the most restrictive copyright available, and basically deliberately broke her mods. Which a lot of people used.

Cue reddit users starting on the anti-feminism brigade, including comments about how feminism hasn't been relevent since the 1800s, that feminists as a whole act like Alice, that all feminists are insufferable, etc.

Obviously the users commenting the above seemed to be just looking for an excuse to go 'reeeeee feminazi!!1!' but regardless, Alice is a TIM (who also literally made a rape mod). I don't think they should exactly be the spokesperson for the need for feminism or the oppression women go through. The fact that a man is claiming to be oppressed by the same systems that have oppressed women over centuries is laughable.

So I am a big fan of this game, Rimworld. Rimworld has a pretty extensive modding community and before I got into Rimworld, or at least before I got into modding Rimworld, there was a ton of drama regarding this one mod creator. Disclaimer: I've only been reading about what occured from secondhand accounts, so this information may not be 100% accurate. The mod creator, Alice, had published quite a few very popular mods, and apparently at some point they had asked the creator of the game if they could include in-game advertisements, basically adware, to their feminist 'charity'. The creator of the game said no. Alice proceeded to make a post on reddit stating that the creator of the game is a misogynist and that this is all because of the patriachy, oppression, etc, put all of her mods under the most restrictive copyright available, and basically deliberately broke her mods. Which a lot of people used. Cue reddit users starting on the anti-feminism brigade, including comments about how feminism hasn't been relevent since the 1800s, that feminists as a whole act like Alice, that all feminists are insufferable, etc. Obviously the users commenting the above seemed to be just looking for an excuse to go 'reeeeee feminazi!!1!' but regardless, Alice is a TIM (who also literally made a rape mod). I don't think they should exactly be the spokesperson for the need for feminism or the oppression women go through. The fact that a man is claiming to be oppressed by the same systems that have oppressed women over centuries is laughable.

37 comments

[–] Medusa 56 points (+57|-1) Edited

TIMs and their narcissism have made tech so much worse for women, especially in online spaces where they can "pass" in the presence of men. At least when they do crazy shit in person, men don't truly view them as women (although a lot of misogyny still bleeds through, because they act like that behavior is due to estrogen and not unfettered male socialization and a get-out-of-jail-free card).

They're so fucking creepy about latching on to the few natal women in the computer science classes at my university, they completely ignore boundaries. There has been a drop in natal women certifying into the program, but so few women are in CS already and TIMs are counted as women, so no one is doing anything because it looks like the female CS population is increasing even though it's decreasing.

[–] lucrecia 35 points (+35|-0)

They've made tech worse and made geek spaces worse in general, because they've made the most extreme misogyny acceptable, and encouraged. In spaces which were previously female-centered, you'll now see loads of stuff that's pro-violence-against-women ('terfs' don't count!). In spaces where you could previously do professional networking, you'll now see guys going 'boobs boobs boobs'. This was understood to be sexist a few years ago and you didn't really see it, or if you did you could at least find men who thought it was sexist and go hang out with them instead. You wouldn't see your boss's boss posting about tits on twitter and being cheered on by others at the same level. Now if you want to advance in your career, you have to flatter the men who are doing this. And it's extra uncomfortable because identity-based stuff has replaced the old online norms of anonymity-by-default and treating people as individuals; instead you are A Woman and this person is claiming to be A Woman Too so it's expected that you have things in common, or that they can speak for you. There's also this stupid dynamic where they try to performatively out-feminist women; you'll be trying to relax and chat about some videogame where it's just universally understood that it exists in a sexist context and the costumes are skimpy or whatever, you know that, you're women, you're messing around, and then Mr Dude will derail with a lecture on how he feels quite objectified by the game, being super srs, pouring cold water over everyone, while the whole time he's obviously saying what he thinks a woman should say because he wants to be 'one of the girls' and is actually getting a kick out of it. At best they have no awareness of context, at worst they're powertripping. They piss everyone off and then claim to be giving a female perspective, and then either men feel resentment toward women, or they feel guilty and try to cater to these dudes, which makes everything worse.

[–] Medusa 19 points (+19|-0)

100%! And if you end up with one of the bimbofication fetishists, he'll start in on his "I can't do math because of my ladybrain! 😘" shit, because he's just sooo bad at ~masculine~ stuff. This is the absolute fucking worst when you work in a male-dominated industry, because (surprise) everything's ~masculine~ there. And the constant BDSM- and kink-signalling. 🤮

[–] lucrecia 11 points (+12|-1)

Yeah, historically I didn't give a shit about kink-signalling, because it was like, you're wearing a leather corset and collar, whatever, you like what you like and if you don't hit on me at work we're good. I generally don't feel like people are trying to drag me into it, they're just trying to find others like them and the people I've met have been respectful about others' boundaries. But then we had a guy who was... evangelising. It was awkward. He'd obviously got this idea that it was his mission to convert the uneducated masses to the wisdom of his enlightened liberated views and it was like, dude, you don't know anything about these people's lives or views. The reason everyone isn't talking about sex isn't some kind of pathological shame around sex, it's because you're at work. He seemed like he'd somehow got the impression kinksters were oppressed. Meanwhile it's hard to overemphasise the extent to which nobody at that workplace gave a shit. There were quite a lot of sex-themed jokes before that, but it didn't feel like stuff that went over the line on the whole, but multiple men were like 'can you not?' to him.

Relieved I haven't encountered any guys claiming to have ladybrains in my field. Just guys who are like 'Look at my boobs! As a woman, I say, legalise prostitution! Sorry, I mean sex-work! Sex work is work! It's so hard being a woman in stem knowing men will objectify me for my massive boobs, but I'm getting boobs anyway because fuck the patriarchy amirite! Just loooook at my boobs! Look at her boobs! Girls praising other girls' boobs subverts male expectations of female rivalry! Ladies, your sexuality is YOURS to onlyfans with as you wish! I wish I'd known earlier that there was no shame in checking out other women's boobs in a sisterly way. So many years wasted hahahaha! Becoming a CTO is so difficult when you're a woman but it's possible, I managed it, and I'll be giving a talk for any other women who want tips and tips of the trade: Being a Woman in Tech With Boobs. Check it out!'

Yeah, as if women haven't worked so hard to break that stereotype, and here comes dude in womanface and undoes all that work with one simpering comment.

I just always try and remember Williamina Fleming: she was an astronomer's maid, who apparently one day got frustrated working with his male colleagues, and shouted: "my maid could do a better job than you!" Turns out Williamina actually already knew her way around astronomy, and she went on to become one of the most noted astronomers of modern history. 💖

[–] Les 29 points (+29|-0)

Alice is a TIM (who also literally made a rape mod)

I never trust men calling themselves feminists. They generally are no better than the average anti-feminist male, and in practice end up supporting the kind of "feminism" that does nothing to help women but does a lot to benefit men. Men can possibly be allies to feminist causes. But rarely ever have I seen men do that without trying to benefit from it somehow.

[–] Elegantissima -3 points (+1|-4)

My husband is a feminist. We raised our son feminist. Our men friends are feminists, and it's not about men benefiting from feminism. It's about men with consciences using their privilege to end male privilege.

However, neither of us knew this was going on until I began researching it.

[–] Verdandi 4 points (+4|-0)

Your husband is not a feminist. Men cannot be feminists. Please don't trample other women's boundaries just for your husband.

[–] Elegantissima -2 points (+0|-2)

A feminist is someone who believes in equality for women.

Men can and MUST be feminists.

Men can't be women.

[–] au_dela 20 points (+20|-0)

I had to look this up, and he sounded more and more male the more I read about him. Turns out that he made a rape mod, too, and he got angry when some others fixed what he sabotaged.

The mod creator, Alice, had published quite a few very popular mods, and apparently at some point they had asked the creator of the game if they could include in-game advertisements, basically adware, to their feminist 'charity'. The creator of the game said no. Alice proceeded to make a post on reddit stating that the creator of the game is a misogynist and that this is all because of the patriachy, oppression, etc, put all of her mods under the most restrictive copyright available, and basically deliberately broke her mods. Which a lot of people used.

How anyone could be this socially inept to even make such a ridiculous request in the first place, let alone throw such a man-trum upon being turned down is beyond me. I felt pretty intense secondhand embarrassment just reading this paragraph.

[–] Carrots90 17 points (+17|-0)

Wait, Reddit went against a TIM?

[–] Medusa 27 points (+27|-0)

I doubt many of them knew it was a TIM, and gamers tend to be... uh... recalcitrant to anything feminist, regardless of who it comes from.

[–] mommakarhu 14 points (+14|-0)

TiMs still rank lower than wank material (going by "rape mod"...I assume that's what many were upset about...). The lesbian porn subreddits can complain about dicks and TiMs without brigading or retaliation.

[–] lodxvera [OP] 9 points (+9|-0)

As others have said, he didn't make it blatantly obvious that he was a TIM, only after some digging did some commenters point out it, and those comments were quite far down the thread.

[–] pennygadget 7 points (+7|-0)

A lot of them thought he was a real woman (since all the drama was online and he presumably didn't release pictures of himself)

[–] Carrots90 3 points (+3|-0)

He should have let them know so they could all apologize and prostrate themselves, begging for forgiveness

[–] boudica 14 points (+14|-0)

Ugh...

Sometimes my brain goes full tinfoil and thinks that shit like this is all part of their plan. "Taking feminism down from the inside" or whatever. Gamergate was a great example of that, too. So many TIMs (who were pretending to be "cis" women) involved, and tons of dudes saying how this proves that feminism is horrible.

[–] Elegantissima 1 points (+2|-1)

I think it is all part of the plan.

Gamergate just showed them the myriad possibilities.

[–] bellatrixbells 12 points (+13|-1)

I know. They either make men "feminists" in the sense that they now have a free card to tell women to stfu and sit down, and finally lecture us about feminism if we're not the "right" feminists IE pro TIM. Or they make men weary of feminism because what they're pushing for is something like this or because they're tired of hearing us complain about TIMs.

[–] Elegantissima 9 points (+11|-2)

I'm telling my husband about this. He works in international open-source tech, and he's spent many years volunteering to help recruit women into his industry. The news that men are now undermining those women is making him sick.

As an aside, the only transwoman we've ever known personally was a very dominating figure in his community, whose blog was called "code like a girl." We befriended her for years, in spite of her harsh personality, until she bragged loudly to me in 2016 (in the middle of a friend's wedding) that Hillary kills children in the Middle East, so she was voting for Trump right before she moved to another country, "as a giant FU to America." Big loud laugh. (She spent the rest of the wedding grandstanding in a loud voice to everyone who would listen about having been delayed at customs over being trans.)

[–] lucrecia 6 points (+6|-0)

I'm telling my husband about this. He works in international open-source tech, and he's spent many years volunteering to help recruit women into his industry. The news that men are now undermining those women is making him sick.

This is slightly encouraging because so far the guys I've seen who were visibly making efforts to recruit women into stem have fallen for transactivism, and it's really depressing and demotivating. Had given up on the open source world beyond the pockets for radfem platforms so nice to know there are men out there who are also seeing there's an issue.

[–] Elegantissima 2 points (+2|-0)

"it's really depressing and demotivating"

I hear you. In 1991, I had three years of Computer Science under my belt (and three years of college loans), before I finally dropped out due to the overwhelming misogyny. I could be making a good living right now. But no. Women aren't allowed.

That's one of the things that really pisses me off about the transwoman we know. She claims to "code like a girl," but I know perfectly well that she got her Computer Science degree as a man. She has no fucking idea what it's like to code like a girl.

My husband works for the Linux Foundation, so they're nowhere near the gaming community. They all accept the transwoman we know, but they would never tolerate her saying anything at work about tits. The trans thing hasn't really invaded their industry yet--when he works to bring women into STEM, they're women.

He's just now learning about all this from me.

Often at the top of my lungs.

[–] lucrecia 2 points (+2|-0)

Oh, interesting, I'd assumed the linux foundation had got really into it since last I looked they were pushing 'inclusive language' plus a bunch of trans stuff, signalling the kind of culture that's pretty hostile to women atm (well, friendly if you play along, but vicious if you ask questions or you are deemed a Bad Person because you're from a different social class or country and don't know the west-coast-approved terms of the week). But then that stuff is often pushed by a different group to the people actually doing the programming.

Yeah, there's an acquaintance who 'transitioned' in his 40s and gives talks about how oppressed he is as a Woman In Tech. Fuck. Off. He's had decades of networking and education opportunities that women don't get, since he was a kid, and has the position to show for it. It's an industry where people refer each other for jobs based on personal friendships, often from childhood, sometimes made in all-boys' schools. It's not just that rooms can be unwelcoming to women, it's that women do not know the rooms are there, because it's an old boys' network. And now these guys are casting us as their oppressors! Just, no frame of reference.

[–] Madlass 7 points (+7|-0)

Wow a fellow rimworlder here! I remember this mod drama but didn't pay too much attention as I didn't use any of those mods.