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I was watching this documentary about China´s new plastic surgery addiction and I noticed the pattern was the same used by the TRAs and the gender surgery industry:

1 - The Cosmetic surgery industry takes advantage of people´s body insecurities and tells them that it´s necessary to get surgery in order to be happy and successful.

2 - People get sucked into a social media world were only perfect and beautiful people live. Normal "plain, ugly" people can´t stop looking at their imperfect bodies and want to change them thinking that will make them finally happy.

3 - The cosmetic surgery industry has apps that show all the flaws of people´s bodies and tells them how to correct them with surgeries.

4 - The cosmetic surgery industry uses influencers that get to test the new surgeries and promote them to their thousands of followers. This creates a culture in which all the people think it´s normal and even necessary to get surgery.

5 - The cosmetic surgery industry lies and tells people that all surgeries are perfectly safe and fine, even when that´s not true and some people end up with permanent body damage.

Replace cosmetic surgery with gender surgeries and it´s basically the same. Notice how the cosmetic surgery industry gets people to obsess over and hate all parts of their bodies (dysphoria, dysmorphia), like the "elf ears" surgeries. Even a doctor in the documentary said that people want to follow trends, and even plastic surgeries become trends.

The only difference is that cosmetic surgery still has some regulations and ethics, but gender surgery has bypassed all that in the name of their sacred "gender identity".

I wanted to share this documentary because it´s very useful to see how social contagion affects people´s idea of their bodies and how industries take advantage of that, I highly recommend it.

I was watching [this documentary about China´s new plastic surgery addiction](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a191xC-ocxk) and I noticed the pattern was the same used by the TRAs and the gender surgery industry: 1 - The Cosmetic surgery industry takes advantage of people´s body insecurities and tells them that it´s necessary to get surgery in order to be happy and successful. 2 - People get sucked into a social media world were only perfect and beautiful people live. Normal "plain, ugly" people can´t stop looking at their imperfect bodies and want to change them thinking that will make them finally happy. 3 - The cosmetic surgery industry has apps that show all the flaws of people´s bodies and tells them how to correct them with surgeries. 4 - The cosmetic surgery industry uses influencers that get to test the new surgeries and promote them to their thousands of followers. This creates a culture in which all the people think it´s normal and even necessary to get surgery. 5 - The cosmetic surgery industry lies and tells people that all surgeries are perfectly safe and fine, even when that´s not true and some people end up with permanent body damage. Replace cosmetic surgery with gender surgeries and it´s basically the same. Notice how the cosmetic surgery industry gets people to obsess over and hate all parts of their bodies (dysphoria, dysmorphia), like the "elf ears" surgeries. Even a doctor in the documentary said that people want to follow trends, and even plastic surgeries become trends. The only difference is that cosmetic surgery still has some regulations and ethics, but gender surgery has bypassed all that in the name of their sacred "gender identity". I wanted to share this documentary because it´s very useful to see how social contagion affects people´s idea of their bodies and how industries take advantage of that, I highly recommend it.

13 comments

[–] orchidmantis 13 points Edited

I find it funny how so many trans/TRA are super anti-capitalist and anti-corporation, except when it comes to big pharma. At this point they're practically being racketeered out of thousands of dollars for hormones and surgery that they don't even need and they'll just bend over and take it. Like yeah they're living paycheck to paycheck and drowning in credit debt and insurance student loans but they gotta have that "neopussy" ig

And the most infuriating part is that they say they need it to not commit suicide. It's like, no, you don't need to have your penis inverted to not commit suicide ffs. If they choose to kill themself over something like this then that's their unfortunate decision, but it comes from a lack of will, it's not a direct result. Not to try and make suicide look like its "weakness" or not a big deal, but it's just such a meaningless thing to kill yourself over in the first place. It's like the comparison you made with body dysmorphia, no therapist would ever tell an anorexic that they need to get liposuction to stop being suicidal, yet this is practically what the "gender affirming" mental health professionals advise them to do (aka risky, unecessary cosmetic surgery). Everyone who's ever had a body hates something about it, that's just life. It just goes to show the superficiality of this movement in that some of these people value their appearance and "aesthetics" over literally every other aspect of their life, and, like you said, the industry knows this and exploits it. It's really quite sad. And then you have people who are "nonbinary" that aren't even dysphoric injecting themselves with damaging hormones just so they can be seen as a "real trans person". There's just no winning here, I really hope society is just going through a phase and we can get back to assuring women that it's okay to not have perfect bodies soon

[–] DonnaFemina 12 points Edited

"And the most infuriating part is that they say they need it to not commit suicide. It's like, no, you don't need to have your penis inverted to not commit suicide ffs."

SERIOUSLY. How does this follow logically:

"Being trans is not a mental illness, it's a completely valid way of being human! But we will commit suicide if:

  • We can't get surgically castrated, or
  • We can't have other healthy body parts cut off, or
  • You call us by our previous name, or
  • You don't use our pronouns, or
  • You disagree with our claim that we're literally the opposite sex"

...then reasonable people say, "Wait, that's not a normal response to feeling like you're oppressed or not accepted for who you are. Jews at Auschwitz did not commit suicide, African slaves in the American South did not commit suicide... Literally the only people who have the high rates of suicide you claim to have are mentally ill people."

And then they of course say, "Shut up, you TRANSPHOBE! We're perfectly healthy, we're just suicidal!"

WTF.

Yes, the whole gender identity ideology is based on people buying their ideal body and physical appearance, so TIMs and TIFs need to buy buy buy all kinds of things like hormones, clothes, make up and cosmetic surgeries (and later become patients who need to buy medicines for the inevitable health damages they will suffer). That´s what conviced me that nothing good can come out of the gender movement, it´s just endless consumerism and harming your healthy body. It´s the opposite of radical feminism that says that women are fine the way we are born, we don´t need to buy make up and clothes. We need safety, freedom and bodily autonomy rights.

Not to try and make suicide look like its "weakness" or not a big deal, but it's just such a meaningless thing to kill yourself over in the first place.

Threatening suicide every time things don’t go your way or you don’t get what you want is a lousy, sorry way to go through life. We’ve seen this so much lately. When states pass a law limiting “necessary, gender affirming surgery” (such utter BS, that) the media starts screaming about those mean old legislators putting kids at risk of suicide.

It especially irritates me because cosmetic surgery degrades the field of plastic surgery. I had to have emergency reconstructive surgery as a toddler because of an accident. Although I was too young to remember the experience, it did leave me with a lifelong appreciation for reconstructive surgeons. The work they do on complex wounds genuinely is lifesaving. And then on the other hand, you’ve got Little Miss Yeet the Teets. It’s so gross. It’s so capitalistic. It’s so unnecessary.

[–] Lipsy i/just/can't 2 points Edited

Most accomplished masters of reconstructive surgery built up that skill set on a foundation of exactly the kinds of simpler, more straightforward, relatively less invasive plastic-surgery operations that also happen to lend themselves to cosmetic goals.

In other words, no surgeon goes to work on complex wounds right upon entering the profession. There's a trajectory through plastic and reconstructive surgery (one field, not two), not unlike the path from apprentice through journeyman (unisex) to master artisan in the skilled trades.

The vast vast majority of your Dr. 90210 kind of guys have done many thousands of plastic surgery operations for reconstructive purposes along the way.

So... i fully expect to get downvoted to hell for this, but, I'm not rlly seeing how the degradation works?
Surgeons like the one who did your childhood reconstruction go through the same early trajectory as Dr. 90210, and then that's a decision made at mid-career in the overwhelming majority of cases.

I could see the case you're making if the pipeline went the other way, with later master training in reconstructive surgery blighted by a cadre of relatively unserious jokers who did their residency in a Beverly Hills strip mall 2 blocks off Rodeo or some shit lol

...but... if anything, I would say it's the opposite.
I think it's GOOD for the rarefied vocation of complex reconstructive surgery that the Drs. 90210 can choose to self-assort BEFORE that phase. That's precisely what leaves the height of the field full of masters who combine art and service to humanity—like your childhood surgeon—the fact that those heights are occupied only by those who genuinely have that sense of a calling.

Aren't you glad the Dr. 90210 personality types can self-select for that path at the halfway ish point? It's the best thing for both camps, honestly.

The Dr. 90210 set also helps patients on the financial side, because cosmetic—as an all-self-pay field—features much more intense competition on cost and price, both the offices' costs for supply and overhead and the out-the-door total price on the bottom right of the bill.

That competition AND the raw economies of scale (from the field being much larger than it would otherwise be) both work to lower the patient and insurer cost ceilings for reconstructive surgery.

I mean, US healthcare system still gonna US lhealthcare system, so far be it from me to be saying any of this stuff ends up cheap, ahaha. But cheaper than would be in the absence of a thrivingly competitive, patient-pay cosmetic surgery industry? Oh yes.

I love conversations like this, so no downvote from me. I genuinely appreciate the way we can talk things out here. It’s a rare thing.

There is definitely an overlap in cosmetic and reconstructive surgery. My own injury was not life-threatening and there was a cosmetic aspect to it. There’s a cosmetic aspect to reconstructive surgery after mastectomies. So, to your point, not all cosmetic procedures are bad.

But, in my view, a lot of them are. I think there’s plenty of experience to be gained from the middle of the Venn diagram surgeries that are both cosmetic and reconstructive. The purely cosmetic side is so exploitive. It always has been, but the field is worse off right now with surgeons focusing on gender-affirming procedures. I do see them as unserious jokers. And they’re the ones who make the headlines. I couldn’t tell you the names of the surgeons who performed Malala Yousafzai’s excellent reconstructive surgeries (and I just tried to look them up but still couldn’t find names) but I can list off a number of surgeons who only do gender surgeries, because boy howdy do they want you to know about them. Reconstructive surgeons don’t tend to make Tik Toks about their vocation. And that’s where I think the degradation comes in. Because the purely cosmetic surgeons are the ones making themselves publicly known and that affects public perception. It certainly does in radfem circles, where plastic surgery is often predictably thought of as purely cosmetic. That perception, imo, dismisses the genuinely good, usually anonymous, work of reconstructive surgeons.

And that’s not even getting into the state by state difference of what constitutes cosmetic surgery (out of pocket) vs reconstructive surgery (insurance covered). Cleft palate, for example, falls into that. No one is going to die from a cleft palate, but it does cause significant quality of life issues in terms of feeding and speech problems. In some states it’s covered, but other states it’s not. So I guess it really does boil down, in the US, to profits before people. Cosmetic surgery is way more lucrative than reconstructive surgery, and it’s the patient who loses.

[–] Lipsy i/just/can't -1 points

Thanks for the detailed elaboration.

Just to make sure i've got the underlying point right, then... basically, the degradation you're talking about is less in terms of actually tarnishing anyone's impression of the most complex reconstructive surgeries, and more about the way cosmetic surgery—just by virtue of being 67 different kinds of loud and in-your-face (relatively speaking)—crowds out the mental space and pushes the more elegant complex heights of the art to some place in the rear where it's easy to forget they're there?
If that's indeed what you mean, then, yeah, i'm there with you.

I can't, on the other hand, really get myself to buy the idea that the tiktok surgeons, no matter how tawdry, could actually cause ppl to think less of the highest zenith of the art.
That's just not really something that happens to people's perceptions, kinda... anywhere? in fact, if anything it's the opposite.
(eating at McD's will make foodies elevate gourmet cuisine even MORE; hearing one too many pop ballads will usually push classical-music aficionados into a deeper appreciation; etc. Even in purely physical perception, the sun will seem brighter after you've been in a darker room.)

re: cleft palate—yeah, i know charity orgs like Smile Train have emerged because there's such a stark gap between the need and ability to pay there. No clue at all how effective and/or non-corrupted those orgs are (non-corrupted basically measured in terms of what % of a donation makes it all the way to the surgeon's office), or how much of that gap they're able to make up. If you happen to know i'd be happy to learn.

[–] sohh 3 points Edited

It’s so sad. Also so weird how this is happening in the US after all the campaigns a decade or so ago about loving the skin you’re in.

I’ve said it many, many times, but I think GCs should focus on creating on our movement instead of being just anti-trans messaging. In addition to fighting for the abolition of gender and against censorship, we can role model norms like forgoing makeup and other aesthetic tools meant to sexualize us. It would be an awesome way to uplift women, and it has the added bonus of being a “fuck you” to TIMs whose “identity” couldn’t survive that shift in norms.

[–] DonnaFemina 9 points Edited

Right, and that's not even a stretch. Gender dysphoria is just another type of body dysmorphic disorder.

If it's not, then why bother with surgery? Why the hormones? You're free to live out whatever gender role you like. You don't need any body modification to do that.

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/body-dysmorphic-disorder

Since anything goes in the gender ideology movement, according to TRAs, a trans person is someone who wants to be and feels like "other gender", some may have dysphoria, some not, some may want surgeries, some may not, that´s the fight between the "truscum" and the "tucutes".