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I met a MtF this past week who had it all done. Long hair, tasteful make up, large breasts, vaginoplasty (it was a clothing optional event - gods save my eyes)...and I clocked that dude from a mile away.

Although I know it to be true, it just reinforced that passing is simply not possible. You can mutilate yourself till the cows come home, and your voice, manly brow ridge, eye shape, shoulders, arms, back, straight waist, hips, mannerisms and leg musculature...it's all man baby. There's no getting around it. Online filters make it possible, but in real life? Please.

I'd also like to add that out of all the MtFs I've had the misfortune of knowing in real life, he was probably one of the closet to 'passing', and still, the end result of that suffering? We can all still tell.

When I read through MtF boards, their claims that 'no one knows the difference' becomes that much more bizarre. Lies lies and damned lies.

I met a MtF this past week who had it all done. Long hair, tasteful make up, large breasts, vaginoplasty (it was a clothing optional event - gods save my eyes)...and I clocked that dude from a mile away. Although I know it to be true, it just reinforced that passing is simply not possible. You can mutilate yourself till the cows come home, and your voice, manly brow ridge, eye shape, shoulders, arms, back, straight waist, hips, mannerisms and leg musculature...it's all man baby. There's no getting around it. Online filters make it possible, but in real life? Please. I'd also like to add that out of all the MtFs I've had the misfortune of knowing in real life, he was probably one of the closet to 'passing', and still, the end result of that suffering? We can all still tell. When I read through MtF boards, their claims that 'no one knows the difference' becomes that much more bizarre. Lies lies and damned lies.

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They're mistaking people politely playing along for the sake of not violating social norms for people being ignorant.

[–] madderthanhell 41 points Edited

Perhaps because the real "euphoria" comes not from 'passing' but from forcing people - and especially women - to submit to their demands, including the demand that we play along with their absurd fantasies.

They remind me of dudes who think a nervous laugh or a strained "smile" from a woman means she's into him...probably because they remained that dude after a costume and pronoun change.

[–] BlueToyotaTacoma Student Poster 7 points

Yeah I don't think anybody believes they are the opposite sex, it's just being courteous (or keeping quiet out of fear for some).

Agree. I was at a conference over the past several days with a huge number of trans attendees. Nobody even achieved sexual ambiguity. It was immediately obvious -- with no conscious thought on my part -- who was male and who was female.

[–] Luckystar 63 points Edited

I say this constantly. It's so obvious the people with the "But we can't keep men out of women's spaces without muh genital checks" arguments are either completely, full on flat earth levels of denial, or they're the ones who don't actually know any transgender people IRL.

I deal with TIPs daily and identifying sex is NEVER an issue. Ironically, it's the opposite -- I have no way of knowing if any random given man is just a man with long hair vs a man who calls himself a woman, until they open their mouths and prattle on about their pronouns and identities.

Determining sex is easy; it's whether or not any given person identifies transgender or not which is impossible to determine. Even moreso in recent years with the 99% gender conforming "enbies"

This is a really good point--determining someone's 'gender' now is what's impossible to do. I'm a woman who apparently to some people 'presents masculine'; this was never a problem until gender ideology became the state religion, now it can be a significant social issue when people react to me with wariness, uncertainty or caution.

Yup, now anyone who's remotely androgynous is assumed to be some kind of gender person. Sorry you're dealing with that.

the "But we can't keep men out of women's spaces without muh genital checks" argument

The elephant in the room is that the battle over bathroom policies (pro and against) exists precisely because they don't pass (without the merest glance toward the genitals).

If hordes of MtFs were passing, it would never occur to anyone that they were even there.

this reminds me of an experience I had recently that drove me to reflect on the insidiousness of this stuff.

I was at the mall, doing some shopping, and a group of teenagers passed me. It's the mall, it's back to school season, it's normal.

The teens were two girls and one boy, all in gothy, punked-out alt styles. And I immediately recoiled a bit about the TIM, and thought to myself that those girls probably do so much coddling and emotional labor for him.

And then I thought to myself, wait a minute, I'm assuming that boy is a TIM. He could just be a goth kid. In my day, all the goth kids wore makeup and jewelry, regardless of their sex.

Then I felt a bit bad about assuming. Because I don't actually have a problem with goth kids or teens wearing clothes and styles meant for the opposite sex....once upon a time, I was a goth kid. And I thought to myself, is this what the gender woo has done to us? Made us assume anybody who looks a bit gender nonconforming is a TIP of some type?

Maybe it's conspiratorial, but I wondered if trans is just a big psyop to push us into gender conformity.

Or maybe he was just a goth kid hanging out at the mall with his friends.

[–] Luckystar 5 points Edited

Yes, I have this problem too. Used to have no issue with GNC men but now certain "tells" instinctively make me leery. Like a choker necklace or striped socks. It's really unfortunate but I err on the side of caution now. Just another thing TRAs ruined imo.

But ironically I would say moreso that there are people I would literally have no idea would identify as transgender until they say so. Especially TIFs, especially the "enbies", but not exclusively.

I am in a class with a lesbian/bi woman(she's introduced her gf) with a short haircut who just straight up refers to herself as he/him and a man. No testosterone beard, no double mastectomy etc --which is obviously a good thing for her health, but still really hammers home the point there's no way to tell if somebody identifies as transgender. I would never in a million years think this woman thought of herself as a man if she didn't say as such.

It's like ma'am has anybody told you in your life that women are allowed to have short haircuts and wear slacks these days?

Yeah TIFs can be way harder to clock, but that doesn't matter. We are only trying to keep men out of women's spaces. if TIFs want to go into the men's I do not care.

[–] no- 8 points

Exactly. TIFs aren’t a problem, they’re not dangerous to other women like men are. Put them in men’s sport teams and prisons, see how that goes for them.

Ironically, it's the opposite -- I have no way of knowing if any random given man is just a man with long hair vs a man who calls himself a woman, until they open their mouths and prattle on about their pronouns and identities.

This so much. At this point when I see a dude with long hair out and about and might have to interact with him, that's a slightly back of the head nagging doubt because I don't know if he not only expects me to pretend he's a woman, but also believes he passes and will throw a tantrum if he figures out he's been "clocked."

Now be me hanging around metal heads a lot.

My partner has had very long hair for decades. Starting around 4 years ago, woke women started addressing him as ma'am or asked how he identifies, there isn't anything even remotely androgynous or feminine about his appearance or dress, so they're just responding to his hair. He didn't understand what was going on until I explained trans and gender ideology to him. In response, he kept his hair long and grew a huge beard instead. I now live with Rasputin.

I saw a man like that recently, he told the whole train wagon, it was a 2 m high man.

I hear a lot of lovely women on this site saying that TiFs pass sometimes, but honestly, I see far more TiFs in public than TiMs...they are EVERYWHERE so I'm curious how many I'm missing if they can evidently pass so well. Even the ones you don't pick up on right away, once you talk a bit to them, it's apparent. Their voice is off and even their personality can be telling (like the one at Target who apologizes too much. I'm like, girl, we don't need to say we're sorry all the time, that's just your female socialization telling on you.)

I think the facial hair can really throw people with TiFs. Also, if TiFs are very dedicated and pump themselves full of enough testosterone they gain masculine muscle mass, although they can't change their skeletal structure of course. I do agree, though, it's almost impossible to change the way they emote or the cadence of their voice (see Buck Angel).

[–] XxWomanxX 35 points Edited

I have to say I can always tell a TIM , it’s always the hands , back and legs that make them clockable, even the “passing” ones. Their tendons are always larger, the mid portions of their faces are longer and their mannerisms always read male to me.TIFs I need a double take on to clock them, they’re usually shorter and still have quite large hips but the facial hair throws me sometimes, but then you look at their smaller hands and their mannerisms read female as well but not always.

[–] sohh 14 points

Yeah, there’s a small percentage who do pass, especially if you’re not actually interacting with them. Like there was a TIF working at the grocery store I used to frequent before moving to a new city. If that grocery store didn’t have a reputation for hiring TIPs, I probably would’ve thought I was just walking by an unusually short, chubby man. But I clocked her pretty quickly when I heard her off-voice and then noticed all the other tell-tale signs you mentioned.

A very tiny portion of TIMs pass, but only when they have so much surgery that they enter uncanny valley territory, like any man or woman who goes way overboard with plastic surgery. But you’re right that their mannerisms always give them away.

I have been fooled by TIFs but never a TIM.

[–] sohh 11 points

I’ve never personally seen a TIM in-person who passes, but idk if I’d be fooled by plastic ones like Gigi Gorgeous if I walked by him on the street. Like, have you ever heard of the cat lady? She’s a very sad case of someone who couldn’t stop getting surgery. She’s an extreme case, but some people have so much work done that they’re hardly human at all in appearance, let alone man or woman.

And a TIM like Jazz Jennings, who was castrated as a child? I wouldn’t instantly clock him a guy if I didn’t know better. And that’s part of why TRAs are so desperate to trans children.

[–] otterstrom 24 points Edited

Of course a pervo man is at a “clothing optional” event with women 🙄

Online filters make it possible, but in real life? Please.

Seriously. Occasionally I'll see one that seems to pass in a selfie, but of course selfies distort our faces slightly due to the angle, focal length, arm length, etc. I find that if I go find a photo of them from another angle (like a mirror pic, or a pic taken by someone else) they look totally different, clearly like an effeminate man. Offline they are still so clockable.

Holy hell, I can’t imagine a surprise view of a pseudovag in the wild.

At the work checkpoint the other day, I was in my car, in a heavy jacket over a hoodie. The guard said “good morning, sir.” Because I am not an unhinged lunatic, I said absolutely nothing and kept driving. Do you think they know that’s an option?

One of my favorite pastimes is to look through the accounts of men who claim they pass. Long story short, all of them are delusional. Some are trolls using pictures of women. Some of them are using filters that change their sex. Most post unfiltered pictures of a man in a dress with bad makeup.

Lol I like doing this too. I remember one particularly cocky tim was going on about how all the other trans women and real women were jealous of him for his looks. When I clicked on his profile he just looked like like a regular chubby shaggy-haired dude.

I see them a lot. They don't pass. I know they know I know.

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