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The early 1990's saw the growth of False Memory Movements which sought to deny the reality of sexual abuse within families by stating that people ( mostly women) who talked about such abuse were suffering from someting called False Memory Syndrome. The False Memory Syndrome Foundation (FMSF) closed a couple of years ago but the British False Memory Society still exists as a registered charity.

The British False Memory Society (BFMS) was started by a man called Roger Scotford. Where did Scotford get the idea to start such a society? Well, according to the FMSF it was from a man called John Money. ( yes, the same John Money who populised the idea of gender identity)

In late 1992, Roger Scotford who was in England contacted professor John Money, M.D. at Johns Hopkins Medical Institutions to find out if he had ever heard of adult children cutting off all contact with parents after claiming to have recovered repressed memories of childhood abuse. Dr. Money, who had heard about the FMSF, put Mr. Scotford in touch with the Philadelphia group, who in turn put Mr. Scotford in contact with several other affected families in the UK. Scotford came to Philadelphia for the first FMSF professional conference in April 1993 and then began to organize families in the UK. He established the British False Memory Society in September 1994. http://www.fmsfonline.org/?about=EarlyHistory

This is important information for lots of reasons.

One of them is the fact that John Money had published and article in the Dutch paedophile journal Paidika the year before and Ralph Underwager (one of the founders of the FMSF) was interviewed by Paidika the folowing year.

The Paidika journal is important for understanding why trasns activists like to talk about gender critical feminists as "white feminism" and that pre-colonial cultures had different genders before colonialism.

What they are doing here has nothing to do with colonialism. They are continuing the "Paidika" tradition of looking to non European and historical societies as places where paedophilia was supposedly allowed. But where "Padika" used the concept of "noble savage" as reasoning for " free sexuality", gender theorists use " post colonialism".

The early 1990's saw the growth of False Memory Movements which sought to deny the reality of sexual abuse within families by stating that people ( mostly women) who talked about such abuse were suffering from someting called False Memory Syndrome. The False Memory Syndrome Foundation (FMSF) closed a couple of years ago but the British False Memory Society still exists as a registered charity. The British False Memory Society (BFMS) was started by a man called Roger Scotford. Where did Scotford get the idea to start such a society? Well, according to the FMSF it was from a man called John Money. ( yes, the same John Money who populised the idea of gender identity) *In late 1992, Roger Scotford who was in England contacted professor John Money, M.D. at Johns Hopkins Medical Institutions to find out if he had ever heard of adult children cutting off all contact with parents after claiming to have recovered repressed memories of childhood abuse. Dr. Money, who had heard about the FMSF, put Mr. Scotford in touch with the Philadelphia group, who in turn put Mr. Scotford in contact with several other affected families in the UK. Scotford came to Philadelphia for the first FMSF professional conference in April 1993 and then began to organize families in the UK. He established the British False Memory Society in September 1994.* http://www.fmsfonline.org/?about=EarlyHistory This is important information for lots of reasons. One of them is the fact that John Money had published and article in the Dutch paedophile journal *Paidika* the year before and Ralph Underwager (one of the founders of the FMSF) was interviewed by *Paidika* the folowing year. The *Paidika* journal is important for understanding why trasns activists like to talk about gender critical feminists as "white feminism" and that pre-colonial cultures had different genders before colonialism. What they are doing here has nothing to do with colonialism. They are continuing the "Paidika" tradition of looking to non European and historical societies as places where paedophilia was supposedly allowed. But where "Padika" used the concept of "noble savage" as reasoning for " free sexuality", gender theorists use " post colonialism".

31 comments

[–] SecondSkin 22 points Edited

On the opposite side, Jennifer Freyd was the daughter of the some of the founding members, who was abused by her father. Who later qualified in psych, wrote Betrayal Trauma Theory, and worked with female survivors her whole life, and coined the term DARVO. Which obviously we see TRAs using all the time.

FMSF had links to NAMBLA also, iirc, which obviously uses the same rhetoric of PIE and todays MAPs.

FMS is also a theory based on zero science, like gender ideology. And many of the previous professionals involved in founding FMSF and pushing for FMS to be included in DSM (repeatedly refused entry) were thrown out of psychological & psychiatric associations. There’s no evidence based science behind either.

Yes I think it is interesting how the anacronyn D.A.R.V.O can be used to describe what TRA say. In both cases it is often women saying to men, "this is reality" . That reality could be the reality of child abuse, the reality that it is common for teenage girls to want to be boys or the reality that men who put on dresses are not women. The tables are then turned onto the woman pointing out reality and they are told that they are transphobic or have been inplanted with false memories.

[–] real_feminist 16 points Edited

I don't know much about this topic, but isn't it more complicated than that? I recall reading stuff about therapists coaching people to make up stuff and claiming that they were recovering memories. This included the Satanic Panic where a lot of children were coached to say that they had been abused in daycare.

Of course, childhood sexual abuse is a very big problem. I'm not trying to minimize. The actions of those therapists made the problem worse.

I think the links that do exist are more similar to that side of it. Diane Ehrensaft was involved in both the Satanic Panic and now this. The TRAs are making shit up and pretending to be oppressed. They are destroying the careers of people who haven't done anything wrong. And they are making it much more difficult for people who genuinely are oppressed, especially GNC women and men.

(I don't like the term GNC but I'm using it here because we haven't agreed on a different term and the general idea is relevant here)

[–] SecondSkin 5 points Edited

False memory syndrome has been refused entry to the DSM and ICD repeatedly. Many of the professionals behind the FMSF had their licences revoked, thrown out of psychiatric and psychological associations around the world. FMS has no evidence based research to back it up.

On the other hand recovered memories has a tone of evidence based research to back it up. Read Jennifer Freyds Betrayal Trauma Theory.

Most if the accusations of ‘therapists implanting false memories’ were just adult women accessing therapy for the first time, safe enough to finally tell someone about the abuse they suffered. Mostly at the hands of their fathers. Some truly forgot because of trauma, and the need to preserve the primary attachment. Many just couldn’t tell anyone before then. Many didn’t understand what was done to them was abuse, because at that point in time abuse was something the bad man in the park stole kids for. And their daddy telling them this is what daddy’s and daughters do, wasn’t something they could process as being abuse.

Satanic panic jumped on FMS bandwagon. The original kids reporting abuse, if their parents accounts are credible, which is impossible to say by now, sound like any accounts of kids trying to speak up about abuse. And at least one of the nurseries accused did have a known peadophile with access. So it’s entirely possible there was some csa. But the stories loose the real feeling when the satanic stuff comes in. And then it developed into hysteria, and some adult accounts came out. That sounded as faked as the children’s ones and often came from a few therapists. That doesn’t mean there wasn’t very real csa at the root of some or much of that either, just that it grew into mass hysteria quickly. Sometimes admitting the huge trauma we have from what sounds like minor molestation, isn’t easy. Maybe they jumped on a fantasy version of what happened to them, rather than face that some very every day abuse had such devastating effects on them?

One of the problems since is that for peado groups, the easiest way to get away with abusing children now is to present it to the kids as satanic abuse. If they want to ensure that no one will believe the kid about being abused and filmed, ensure what the kid says when they try to speak up is that it was the devil. Everyone brushes that off now. Same way they over look a kid telling them their abusers are named after the cast of Dallas or something. No one listens if the kid says JR came into their bedroom at night, because they assume it’s on the tv set. Peado groups will twist whatever gets them access to kids.

Yes, this is all true. the concept of "false memory syndrome" didn¨t make it into any treatment manual. However unfortunately their second goal, that of "false memories" did. They managed to get it into psycology 101 textbooks which is why someone else has written here that it is a well established concept. Then they say that anyone can have false memories and at the same time use the term exclusively in legal situations as a defense thatsexual abuse has not happened. this is in the UK where the BFMS still exists I agree with you that the * easiest way to get away with abusing children now is to present it to the kids as satanic abuse. If they want to ensure that no one will believe the kid about being abused and filmed, ensure what the kid says when they try to speak up is that it was the devil*

To keep up the comparison with gender ideology, this is why keeping it out of 101 textbooks is so important!

From what little reading I did on the Satanic Panic, I think the main issue was that the accusations were made by therapists on behalf of children, i.e. there was an incentive to manipulate children to make such claims.

I never heard of the FMSF but I can't believe that it is real. A man gets accused of rape and starts a foundation to research false memories of rape? Seriously?

[–] SecondSkin 5 points Edited

https://www.thecut.com/article/false-memory-syndrome-controversy.html

Yes a peadophile literally started this foundation because his adult daughter spoke up (privately among the family) about him abusing her when she was little.

The other founder, Elizabeth Loftus, has volunteered to speak for the defence for Weinstein and a tone of other predators. These are nothing but very very bad people.

The satanic abuse nonsense was one more chapter in the never-ending saga of pushback against the Second Wave. Specifically, it attacked the notion that daycare was a perfectly reasonable way for mothers to pursue professional careers.

One author I read on the subject pointed out that it was plainly, clearly, obviously a hoax from the start, as at least half of the accused were women - who typically constitute less than two percent of CSA perps.

Despite all evidence to the contrary, men and women alike seem eager to believe the worst about women.

[–] Riothamus scrote 2 points

A man gets accused of rape and starts a foundation to research false memories of rape? Seriously?

The knave doth protest too much, methinks.

Yes it is certainly complicated. I watched Diane Ehrensaft on Walsh's film and I have read some extracts from what she has written about gender identity. I cant help seeing similarities between her idea that children should should be free to explore tying out different genders - and the pedophile movement of the 1970's that promoted itself as "children's liberation" and that children should be able to explore their sexuality with adults in consentual relationships. Both seem to me to be giving too much agency to the child who is not able to understand the context or consequences of their feelings - and the child in both cases is open to abuse.

[–] BlackCirce 🔮🐖🐖🐖 12 points

Dr. Money is the gift that keeps on giving

I agree. Dr Money ( who was a psychologist and not a medical doctor as the FMSF wrote) was enoumously prolific and had a long career. there was a tribute written to him when he was still alive https://books.google.se/books?id=Be28xb4JPbwC&printsec=frontcover&dq=%22john+money%22+biography&hl=sv&sa=X&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=%22john%20money%22%20biography&f=false but there really needs to be a biography written today

[–] furyosa no, thank you 12 points

It was a long time ago since I read about FMS which means I haven't read about it with a feminist analysis as I'm a relative latecomer to feminism. It just made me think about the Freudian Coverup which asserts that Freud was unraveling how prevalent sexual abuse was among girls and then he just up and abandoned the girls by alleging that most of them had imagined or fantasized the experience. The FMS seem to follow his lead in this regard. And I'm not surprised to learn that FMSF had connections to John Money and a peer-reviewed (wtf!) paedophile journal. Good digging there, OP.

[–] SecondSkin 4 points Edited

Alice Miller’s* explanation for this was that Freud originally believed his patients until he found out one of his closest colleagues and mentors was abusing his child. So Freud back tracked and claimed it was children fantasising about sex with their parents that caused neurosis.

*not feminist.

Thank you for telling me this about Alice Miller. I didnt know that. given that she trained as a psychoanalyst in Zurich she must have heard a lot of unwritten discussion about Freud - which she then put out in the open when she broke with freudian tradition. I just did a google search for your information here. I didn't find it but what I did find was a discussion with her about one of the day care centres that were labelled as part of the "satanic panic" . Her explanation for children talking about other children being killed was that they were talking about a part of them that experienced being killed. i found that interesting. I am wondering also if in some children who take on a new gender idenitity there is a need for a death of the old me and a birth of the new me.

The stuff about Freud was in one of her books, iirc, although I don’t recall which one exactly.

Yes John Money was critical of Freuds seduction theory ( that Freud's clients reported sexual abuse within their families) and tried to explain it as a result of repressive "antisexualism" that was prevailent in the society where Freud lived and affected his thinking. Money also thought that the end of the sexually liberated 60's and 70's and the growth of the socialwork profession heralded another period of antisexualism.

My brain’s fried this week. I’m not sure I’m getting the connection here. Are you saying proponents of false memories are associated with pedophilia, and that makes them similar to the trans movement?

I actually agree with the hypothesis behind false memories. There’s good reason to believe that during the time period you describe, when people were recovering “repressed memories,” they weren’t recovering real memories at all. Instead those memories were inadvertently created by overeager therapists who themselves believed abuse must have happened. I’ve never heard of the societies you describe, but there’s some pretty good literature on the subject of false memories.

Like another commenter said, it’s a sticky subject. Child abuse happens for sure, but the origin of a number of reports from that specific time period is questionable.

Thanks for asking. What I am tring to say is that the some of the people who started the false memory movement were connected with the John Hopkins hospital which was also the place where gender identity started. There is also a connection with the Netherlands where there was an academic journal on paedophilia and the use of puberty blockers started. None of this necessarily means anything except for the fact that ideas were flying arlound in specific places and some people must have known each other. So when I saw that the FMSF has written about John Money - I thought "Oh look.... this could be useful to someone"

I think that there are lots of parallels between the way the false memory movement works and the gender identity movement. One of these is DARVO as someone else has mentioned here. Another is for the gender idenity people to link feminists with the christian right, which the false memory people did also.

Then I think it is interesting that several detransitioners I have heard talk have had histories of sexual abuse. And that this was never looked into when they were seeking treatment for gender dysphoria. But one of the reasons it was never looked into is that, because of the false memory movement, it is very difficult for practitioners to ask about sexual abuse - because they do not want to be accused of implanting false memories.

Ah, I think I understand better.

I suppose it could be another case of the usual bad actors latching onto a legitimate cause to corrupt it and use it for their own ends. The idea of false memories has a strong basis, but I agree with you that gross people can use the legitimacy of that strong basis to cover the tracks of people who really are guilty of abusing someone.

[–] SecondSkin 2 points Edited

The false memory syndrome foundation was founded by Jennifer Freyds father, because she grew up and talked about her abuse he subjected her to when she was a child. It was founded by bad actors, many of them. Not that they latched on afterwards.

FMS has repeatedly refused entry to DSM and ICD and the founders of FMSF have had their licenses revoked/kicked out of the professional associations.

This is the woman who was the abused girl at the centre of it. Whose credentials aren’t revoked, whose research and work are highly respected, she’s wrote several books, lots of evidence based research to back them up. She’s also the woman who came up with DARVO and has spent her life working for survivors, for women.

https://www.jjfreyd.com/

Her work on institutional betrayal trauma is also valuable in relation to how institutions are grooming kids and adults to accept sexual predators are really women inside. All her work is very relevant to gender ideology as well as the csa it was founded on. The FMSF has no research or credibility, their life’s work has been to try and silence Jennifer and other victims. They are just predators in a group.

Interesting, I thought there were parallels in ideology between these two movements, and some of the people involved in the false memory movement were also involved in the Satanic Panic, as I recall. I did not know, though, that the idea came from John Money, but it makes a lot of sense that it did. It is so, so similar to transgenderism.

Yes, I am fascinated by these parallels. I can wonder if they are there because of men putting down women is learned behaviour on an unconscious level. So not all men who gaslight and abuse women are specificaly taught to do that. In this thinking then both the false memory movement and the gender identity movement are patriarchal movements but not directly connected. Or if there are people who deliberately connect and learn from one movement to the next. Interestingly both movements, even thought they are very patriarchal, have women who are the "handmaids" of the movement and appear to be leading it.

[+] [Deleted] 0 points