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The report: Yeshiva University halts clubs amid high court LGBTQ ruling

I have realized that the /Jewish subreddit is an echo chamber for self-indulgences. This is the third post of mine that's been removed by mods. The latest occurred when I attempted to explain why Yeshiva U (Orthodox Jewish University) had been accepting of LGB but balked at ‘T’. My post said:

Most likely they have a big objection to the T due to existing and proposed federal laws. Much discussion accusing T’s of basically poisoning the GLB part of the equation. It essentially means biological males would be allowed in female private places, and vice versa.

Notice that I got 34 downvotes for merely explaining the situation!

My post was deleted:

Your comment was removed because it violated rule 4: Be welcoming to everybody

...and I suppose that means I should not have told the truth. No doubt many reported my post as hateful or noninclusive. After some agonizing I have unsubscribed to the sub. It hurts.

This gender thing is sort of new to me, in fact this is my first post. Am I on the right track here? Do I understand that the ‘trans’ fad is an attack on LGB and there is increasing rejection of the T's demands?

And personally, I am a liberal Democrat but in all honesty I agree with the Supreme Court and Yeshiva this time. It's a weird space to find myself in.

The report: [Yeshiva University halts clubs amid high court LGBTQ ruling](https://apnews.com/article/us-supreme-court-religion-new-york-bd4776983efde66b94d4a2fad325dc89) I have realized that the /Jewish subreddit is an echo chamber for self-indulgences. This is the third post of mine that's been removed by mods. The latest occurred when I attempted to explain why Yeshiva U (Orthodox Jewish University) had been accepting of LGB but balked at ‘T’. My post said: > Most likely they have a big objection to the T due to existing and proposed federal laws. Much discussion accusing T’s of basically poisoning the GLB part of the equation. It essentially means biological males would be allowed in female private places, and vice versa. Notice that I got 34 downvotes for merely explaining the situation! My post was deleted: > Your comment was removed because it violated rule 4: **Be welcoming to everybody** ...and I suppose that means I should not have told the truth. No doubt many reported my post as hateful or noninclusive. After some agonizing I have unsubscribed to the sub. It hurts. This gender thing is sort of new to me, in fact this is my first post. Am I on the right track here? Do I understand that the ‘trans’ fad is an attack on LGB and there is increasing rejection of the T's demands? And personally, I am a liberal Democrat but in all honesty I agree with the Supreme Court and Yeshiva this time. It's a weird space to find myself in.

38 comments

It's depressing to me that, in the US at least, the most successful strategy to push back against gender woo is protecting freedom of religion. Just ten years ago I would have laughed if you told me that religious conservatives were on the side material reality.

Its wild isn't it? Can you imagine telling people 20 years ago that "liberals" would be burning Harry Potter merch and Conservative Christians would be defending JK Rowling's right to express herself?

I’m not delighted to be allied with a lot of conservative Christians; hell, I’m not delighted to be allied with the Haredim. But … on this issue we are in general agreement.

It just occurred to me yesterday that legislation based on trans ideology obligates everyone to believe in the soul. Otherwise, how can you accept the idea anyone was born in the wrong body? This is a clear violation of the separation between church and state.

I read the linked article and I had to comment on this part:

The university’s tactic, she said, “is a throwback to 50 years ago when the city of Jackson, Mississippi closed all public swimming pools rather than comply with court orders to desegregate."

This comparison is so vile. Not only because it appropriates Black Civil Rights struggles to shore up gender nonsense. But because the comparison is ridiculous. You can't compare an ENTIRE CITY shutting down public spaces to keep Black people out to a single private Jewish university setting rules according to their faith (rules that students willing sign up for when enrolling).

Yeshiva University isn't stopping queer and transgender groups from having meet ups on campus. They're just not officially sanctioning them. These people can just meet in the quad or the cafeteria and talk about their gender goblins. But no. They have to strong arm an already marginalized group into bending the knee for them. Because heaven forbid even ONE university doesn't kiss their asses 24/7 and give them everything they want!

I get really mad when this goyim nonsense if forced into Jewish groups and institutions

Yeshiva University isn't stopping queer and transgender groups from having meet ups on campus. They're just not officially sanctioning them. These people can just meet in the quad or the cafeteria and talk about their gender goblins.

In a way it reminds me of evangelical Christians in the 90s and 00s insisting that it was a violation of religious freedom to prohibit public school teachers from leading classes in prayer or teaching creationism. Same persecution complex, same cry-bully tactics, same utter disregard for other people's rights.

[–] GCRadFem 11 points

This gender thing is sort of new to me, in fact this is my first post. Am I on the right track here? Do I understand that the ‘trans’ fad is an attack on LGB…

Yes, you are absolutely correct. The trans movement is an outright attack on LGB. It is a part of their pursuit to erase sex and with it, the little thing called sexual orientation. You erase our sex, you erase lesbians. Just what the trans mafia is going for.

…there is increasing rejection of the T's demands?

There is some rejection of trans demands but not nearly enough and the support is not unified. Women are canceled if they speak up against the trans movement (see JKR and what she has gone through in supporting the right for women to exist). She has literally had death threats.

Holy shit, is that what the YU brouhaha is about? All I saw was headlines/FB discussion about “homophobia” for not allowing a GSA or similar.

Which, to be honest, doesn’t bug me. It’s an orthodox school, and they also wouldn’t allow people to set up a pork BBQing club. If an activity explicitly banned by a religion is part of your identity, do not choose to go to a school where the policy is to observe (not enforce, but not endorse the breaking of) that religion. Or, do go, but recognize that you won’t be able to bring that part of “your authentic self” to school. There are other places to BBQ. It’s NYC, there are lots of other social opportunities for gay people.

But it’s the trans poisoning everything after all, again? SMH.

The controversies (as this has been a recurring issue for at least a decade) all originate with YU’s Tolerance Club, a student activism dedicated to “promoting diversity” within Orthodox Judaism. Let me provide the dictionary definition of small o orthodox.

(of a person or their views, especially religious or political ones, or other beliefs or practices) conforming to what is generally or traditionally accepted as right or true; established and approved.

The rabbinical interpretation of the Torah is precisely what makes Orthodox Judaism orthodox. It won’t change. It can’t. That’s why we have liberal branches of Judaism. Attending YU is a choice. There are other Jewish colleges. Go to Brandeis if you want to be Jewish and Q (the slur, not Anon, lol). Don’t go to an (albeit Modern) Orthodox school and demand that it bend to your will.

That said, YU is technically in the wrong, as it has been a secular school for over fifty years. It doesn’t have religious exemptions, and can’t seek them while also receiving federal funding. Shuttering all student clubs was the only option it really had, so I understand why they did that.

Interesting, do you think YU's legal counsel advised they could could lose a lawsuit based on what you said? I figured they must be vulnerable if they took such a drastic action. It's consistent with the T strategy that they are willing to nuke everyone if they don't get their way.

It's consistent with the T strategy that they are willing to nuke everyone if they don't get their way.

Just like abusive men who kill their partners or their children: "If I can't have it, NOBODY can!!"

YU has a FAQ page on the case that goes into more details on their side. The latest ruling said they had to recognize the club, but it’s worth noting the timing of all this. Rosh Hashanah is next week. It is a busy time. I’m sure the High Holidays played a factor into pausing the clubs because they have more important things to deal with right now as observant Jews.

Ah yes, like the BDS groups who happen to have meetings where they vote to sanction Jewish groups whose politics they dislike on Yom Kippur. Pure coincidence, nothing antisemitic about it, no sirree.

Thanks for that, I'm going to side with YU on this one. This entire gender onslaught reminds me of the ‘Anarchy’ fad of the late '70s. Just a bunch of noisy kids wreaking chaos.

I don't know why anyone under the LGBTQAI2SWTF umbrella would want to go to an Orthodox school like Yeshiva University. There are literally THOUSANDS of liberal colleges in the country that endlessly pander to queer nonsense. Why not go there? The only reasons I can think of are ...

A) most liberal schools are uncomfortablely antisemitic towards anyone who is openly Jewish

B) the TQs just want to colonize yet another space where their goyim bullshit isn't wanted.

I think it’s probably both.

And if you’re ‘queer’ and Jewish, and uncomfortable with the antisemitism at most US universities, I have sympathy … but do not, as you say, try to colonize one of the few orthodox Jewish spaces in higher ed with values you know they reject. Take classes at YU and join a Reform synagogue in the area, or similar.

I’ve noticed what I’m convinced is a disproportionate number of trans ‘rabbis’ in a lot of liberal Jewish communities, although that could easily be the Baader Meinhof effect.

That might depend if the congregation puts a disproportionate focus on gender stuff. There's a synagogue in West Philly that is absolutely full of trans-id'ing people including the Rabbi, a FtM. It's a Reconstructionist Congregation but I don't know if that's relevant. Most of the synagogues where I live are either Reform or Conservative.

Reconstructionism started out as the most exciting development in halachic thinking in a century, and then morphed into lazy liberal identity politics with blinding speed.

I blame, in part, Arthur Waskow, who had a fetish for WoC and ‘converted’ them to prey on them. Just despicable.

calling transgendersim "goyim bullshit" isn't very nice on your part....

calling transgendersim "goyim bullshit" isn't very nice on your part....

Are you telling me to be kind? LOL

It may not be "nice". But its true. And I have a right to be angry that Western, goyim gender shit is trying to colonize my culture/community (and doing so by guilting us via comparing trans people to Jews in nazi Germany)

It’s the “comparing it to the actual Nazi persecution of actual Jews” bit that is the most enraging, to me.

Are you aware that Stryker, John Money, Pritzker and Rothblatt, so some of the people who did most for transgenderism are jewish? Yet I will never claim transgenderism is "jewish bullshit" or say that they are "trying to colonize my culture/community". You should be more respectful because not all "goyims" are the same nore we have the same interests.

I'm guessing part of the reason your comment got deleted is that the mods on r/Jewish don't want their sub purged for offending the TIMs who run Reddit. Which is especially likely considering that reddit hates jews almost as much as it hates women

The only Jewish sub i still visit on reddit is r/Jewpiter. Its mainly a shit posting site that mocks antisemites and fake "As a Jews". So gender crap never comes up

the TIMs who run Reddit Is that a known fact? It might explain why I've been booted off of boards.

Certain ones, yeah, but I don't know if I'm allowed to name them here. Then there was that whole thing with "Aimee" Challenor and his pedophile father.

Isn't Yeshiva (and other conservative "universities" like BYU and Liberty) equally opposed to LGB and T? (And don't most other universities destroy the former by promoting the latter?)

Eh, it's complicated.

Having gay sex is religiously forbidden, but it's seen as an issue for the individual. "If you don't believe in gay sex, don't have it" works fine for this group, with some wedding industry exceptions.

T is a massive problem for Orthodox Jews though, because they practice yichud (restrictions on men and women being secluded together) and shomer negiah (not touching the opposite sex other than relatives except when medically necessary). So this impacts single sex pools, gyms, TSA , bathrooms, etc etc.

Modern orthodoxy has a wide spectrum, but in general, what you’ll see is a rejection of the behaviour, but not the person. And in this sense, they reject the behaviour (being openly gay, in this case) the same way they would openly working on the Sabbath, or intermarrying, or eating unkosher food: generally, they will include you in the community, but not that behaviour. So you may be welcome to have your kid’s bar mitzvah at the synagogue, but the catering has to be kosher even if you are not. You can participate in the congregation if you are intermarried, and in more liberal communities your non-Jewish spouse might be welcomed, but they cannot do things that only Jews can do in the religious services, and they will not carry out the wedding, because in their eyes it’s not a wedding.

I know “love the sinner, hate the sin” is trite and often disingenuous, but some MO communities genuinely do take this approach. Then again, there are others that are “affirming,” and also others that effectively reject or ostracize people who do not at least publicly keep all of Jewish law.

YU has a reputation for being at the liberal end of MO these days, although it wasn’t always thus.