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23 comments

Nobody should be allowed to change their birth certificate to reflect their personal beliefs, the fact this is up for debate is total nonsense.

A factual document should never be falsified.

Exactly. And when transgender identified ppl commit crimes, their sex at birth needs to go in the crime statistics. It really pissed me off when I saw an article about the "rise" in "women" committing sex based crimes

Well done, TERF Island! Take the rest of us with you <3

[–] Luckystar 0 points Edited

no kidding, meanwhile stateside Montana is being legally bullied into allowing people lying on their birth certs... (and I mention Montana because in the majority of US states, the idea that fabricating legal documents shouldn't be allowed isn't even within the political discourse...)

[–] Hera 34 points

Extremely happy to see folks recognizing that self-id and changing your documentation to reflect a literal nonreality is very, very bad and the polar opposite of "progress".

Super. Legal documents should never be falsified. Sex doesn't change.

[–] TransWidow Memoir Oct 16! 1 points

I mean the odd thing is that a birth certificate is a record of the events at birth. Even if sex could change (and of course it can't), the record of what occurred decades prior should not be altered. It is in fact what occurred.

[–] ProMoleratWaxer #1 Worst Poster 22 points

I think TRAs should become more visible because this strategy is only 'working' for us.

Realistically a more efficient system could be implemented, birth certificates don't reflect gender they reflect sex. If intersex/DSD children are born they get marked as such which means the state has to watch them and make sure they're not mutilated/corrected and they get proper social inclusion in family planning, disability accommodations and such

I guess TIPs could have a gender (dysphoric) fe/male sex or something as a disorder of sexual development for legal and medical protection reasons and then detransitioners can have this remanded as normal. Maybe medically transitioned ppl can have a marker so public medical/social providers can know what to do in emergency situations.

[–] Lipsy i/just/can't 7 points Edited

detransitioners can have this remanded

Do you mean "redacted" or "removed" here?

(Remanded would mean sent to a different, usually lower-level, authority for consideration, as when a legal case is remanded from a higher to a lower court.. I don't think that's what you mean? I'm pretty sure you meant summarily struck from the record as a routine procedure—"redacted" if some trace of its former presence is retained, "removed" if not)

I think a detransistioner should leave the marker, but in parentheses it could say (null) or something similar. They still need medical care to heal from the permanent effects of medically transitioning and they will need it for medical and legal reasons. What if they are in an accident and unconscious? The ER staff may have to put a catheter in. Maybe they want to sue a former doctor and need proof? Maybe they are incorrectly misgendered in a setting where they will need to defend their natural sex ( like a detransistioner in a locker room or bathroom).

What you're suggesting is interesting. Using the birth cert as a log of sorts, to track the changes. But sex never really changes so it seems odd. What happens if a detransistioner wants all "changes" removed? Just have it say MALE or FEMALE? Would that be allowed?

[–] ProMoleratWaxer #1 Worst Poster 0 points

Detransitioners are the people who medically reverse the cosmetic alterations, desisters are the ones who convert to atheism. I don't think transitioning and detransitioning necessarily changes your sex characteristics that much beyond average sexual phenotypes so it could be female or 'transitioned female' depending on individual wishes.

Ideally I think it would note sex and also secondary characteristics with it. Maybe identification just gives sex and identifying secondary characteristics are officially noted as well but not on licence (I don't think ppl would like it being too public so maybe it should be a number or sm) e.g.

As in Sex: male (0-0) 'Average biology '

sex: male (1-1)

First number suggests deviating intersex/physical condition, second number is type of intersex condition e.g. klienfelters. Medical professionals memorise the numbers.

[–] ovaryacting [OP] Dilatemadaboutit 22 points

Public support for transgender people being allowed to change the sex on their birth certificate has fallen sharply in two years. The British Social Attitudes (BSA) survey found that 39 per cent of people were now opposed to the idea. The proportion supporting the idea has dropped by 21 points in two years, from 53 per cent to only 32 per cent. "Thirty-three per cent feel that transgender equal opportunities have gone too far, as opposed to 32 per cent who think they have not gone far enough, the polling found. Researchers discovered that the balance of public opinion mostly tipped in favour of socially liberal views, except on the transgender issue."

public opinion mostly tipped in favour of socially liberal views, except on the transgender issue

Because the transgender issue is a top-down authoritarian compelled oath of allegiance against reality.

It's like they just don't get it. If the majority favors "socially liberal views" on every other issue except transgender ideology...maybe that's because believing in gender is not actually socially liberal.

They all know it's a bunch of make believe bullshit. The TWAW mantra is proof enough.

I’ve never thought you should be able to change anything on your birth certificate. I was adopted (twice technically) and my birth certificate was revised twice to change my name and my parents. It’s supposed to be a record of your birth, is it not? So weird.

[–] NoDayForADo 7 points Edited

My son's middle name is misspelled on his birth certificate. It's family legend at this point. It's not the wrong name, just not the spelling of a particular name that I wanted. But I didn't fix it when it was a fresh mistake and it's been so long now that whatever, we don't care. I worry if we DID fix it, it would be a pain in his ass to have to deal with having an addended birth certificate or whatever it would become in later life. I don't know how realistic that concern is. It might be a minor hassel, but the name doesn't bother him or us enough to change it. But I know that if we DID change it, he would not get a fresh new certificate while the old one disappeared from existance. That's not how it works.

We can't fix what is basically a typo without there being a paper trail.

It blows my mind that people who chant "Believe science!" and "facts don't care about your feelings!" and "history includes things that make you uncomfortable" etc are just totes cool with invalidating a document that is both historical and medical in nature.

[–] Lipsy i/just/can't 5 points Edited

But I know that if we DID change it, he would not get a fresh new certificate while the old one disappeared from existance. That's not how it works

There is, in fact, precisely such a process—which absolutely needs to exist, because there can be, and have been, situations where e.g. a natural disaster or fire completely destroyed a government vital-records office and all the original records housed in the building were lost.

The same procedure is also used in the case of rural at-home births that aren't documented at the time (still not terribly uncommon in poor rural areas like the Mississippi Delta), and for international adoptions from areas where there still isn't any standardized vital-records keeping.

Ultimately, though, you're right: You would not be allowed to use that procedure in this case. This would count as a standard name change, which has its own set of protocols—but which shouldn't significantly increase the overall hassle or paperwork burden faced by anybody after it's all gone through.

BTW If you (plural) ultimately decide to go through with the name change, you probably shouldn't schedule any air travel while the legal change is still in-process. Airlines regularly refuse boarding to passengers whose tickets are 1 letter off the name on their identity documents.

Correcting birth and death certificates is not actually that hard. I think it might be easier for a name since it doesn't need any "proof" other than your word.

I had to fix the birth country of a family member because it was wrong on their death certificate (someone misheard the country), and I had to provide proof in the form of an extremely difficult to obtain, non-English birth certificate from another country. I did it because it annoyed me that it was wrong. I value accuracy in documents. Once I had that I just mailed it off and it was corrected, and they sent me the new certificates (that I ordered/paid for on the form).

[–] TransWidow Memoir Oct 16! 0 points

“This is the one instance where, for the moment, attitudes have not moved in a more liberal direction."

Or maybe they have. Maybe the liberal thing to do is to care about women and girls as much as you care about men with gender feelings.

[–] Hollyhock 3 points Edited

I'd love to note on my birth certificate that I was born in Paris. I feel Parisian and I have a crush on Macron. If France does agree, she's a bigot!