144

At dinner the other night, my (very new) boyfriend and I were discussing Harry Potter. Now, I’m very aware of the general public’s attitude towards JKR. So, I was curious to see if he would bring it up and of course he did.

The way I like to approach these kinds of things is to sort of play dumb. I basically just ask questions instead of telling my opinion. I’ve learned that this will almost always unravel their argument. Anyways, he talked about how she is "awful" and "cancelled." Here’s how the basic convo went:

ME: Why is she awful?

BF: Well, you know… she’s just awful

ME: What specifically has she done?

BF: She has said a lot of really nasty things about trans people

ME: Well, what exactly has she said about them? Can you show me a quote of hers that you disagree with?

BF: Googles furiously for LITERALLY 15 mins See! Here's an article where she calls herself a TERF! A Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminist!

ME: Okay, what exactly does that mean though- why is that bad? Why does every space have to be inclusive?

BF: Because when you exclude others, they can’t exist.

ME: So, you’re saying that all trans women will cease to exist if we don’t let them into the women’s bathroom?

At this point he got really frustrated that he couldn't answer my questions. He finally he just ended the convo there, saying he didn’t understand why I “was so upset” and why I “cared so much” about this topic.

I wasn't done yet though, I just had to get one more jab in. This may be immature but if felt damn good so no regrets. I said, "so you think a woman that you’ve never met is awful, but you can't name a single reason why, except that you have heard others say that she is awful? How can you look me in the eyes and tell me you’re a feminist?" I’m sure you can imagine his response. I knew this would hit him hard because he’s VERY liberal and a self-proclaimed “radical feminist.” HAHAHAHA

So anyways, I don't think that we will be talking about that again. I don’t know that I’ll be able to get over this and be able to continue dating him. I feel silly for even saying that, but it’s more than just differing opinions about a celebrity. It’s the complete ignorance of how women are being affected by the trans movement, and the obvious lack of interest in even trying to understand.

I’m just so frustrated with this. I’ve yet to meet a single person IRL who is willing to take a critical look at the trans movement’s effect on women. We’re literally watching the largest class of people in the WORLD (women!) being erased more and more each day. The sexual desires of male-bodied individuals are, once again, being put ahead of the actual needs of women. I can’t think of any better example of the patriarchy and male entitlement. It is equal parts terrifying, infuriating, and depressing.

Anyways, thanks for listening to my rant. This is the only place I feel sane now, very grateful for this community!

At dinner the other night, my (very new) boyfriend and I were discussing Harry Potter. Now, I’m very aware of the general public’s attitude towards JKR. So, I was curious to see if he would bring it up and of course he did. The way I like to approach these kinds of things is to sort of play dumb. I basically just ask questions instead of telling my opinion. I’ve learned that this will almost always unravel their argument. Anyways, he talked about how she is "awful" and "cancelled." Here’s how the basic convo went: ME: Why is she awful? BF: Well, you know… she’s just awful ME: What specifically has she done? BF: She has said a lot of really nasty things about trans people ME: Well, what exactly has she said about them? Can you show me a quote of hers that you disagree with? BF: *Googles furiously for LITERALLY 15 mins* See! Here's an article where she calls herself a TERF! A Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminist! ME: Okay, what exactly does that mean though- why is that bad? Why does every space have to be inclusive? BF: Because when you exclude others, they can’t exist. ME: So, you’re saying that all trans women will cease to exist if we don’t let them into the women’s bathroom? At this point he got really frustrated that he couldn't answer my questions. He finally he just ended the convo there, saying he didn’t understand why I “was so upset” and why I “cared so much” about this topic. I wasn't done yet though, I just had to get one more jab in. This may be immature but if felt damn good so no regrets. I said, "so you think a woman that you’ve never met is awful, but you can't name a single reason why, except that you have heard others say that she is awful? How can you look me in the eyes and tell me you’re a feminist?" I’m sure you can imagine his response. I knew this would hit him hard because he’s VERY liberal and a self-proclaimed “radical feminist.” HAHAHAHA So anyways, I don't think that we will be talking about that again. I don’t know that I’ll be able to get over this and be able to continue dating him. I feel silly for even saying that, but it’s more than just differing opinions about a celebrity. It’s the complete ignorance of how women are being affected by the trans movement, and the obvious lack of interest in even trying to understand. I’m just so frustrated with this. I’ve yet to meet a single person IRL who is willing to take a critical look at the trans movement’s effect on women. We’re literally watching the largest class of people in the WORLD (women!) being erased more and more each day. The sexual desires of male-bodied individuals are, once again, being put ahead of the actual needs of women. I can’t think of any better example of the patriarchy and male entitlement. It is equal parts terrifying, infuriating, and depressing. Anyways, thanks for listening to my rant. This is the only place I feel sane now, very grateful for this community!

154 comments

[–] LonelyKindred Based Tomboy 110 points

He's just parroting popular opinions and feeling morally superior without an inch of self-awareness. You should leave, I'm pretty sure fucking sheep is illegal.

Lmao 😂 seriously though OP, this dude sounds like a waste of time who cannot think for himself.

I think this is what most people do. They haven’t really thought about the issues and formed their own opinions, they just parrot what they hear other people say and wear t-shirts around with “Be Kind” printed on the front. I hate those fucking t-shirts.

Red flag alert for any dude calling himself a “feminist”. You have just experienced why – unfettered misogyny underneath a woke veneer.

[–] [Deleted] 65 points Edited

For real this dude is pinging every nice guy(secret incel) red flag. Also nice bit of DARVO when he told her "he doesn't understand why she care so much". Despite being the one losing his cool and the argument. Oh and he thinks being a TERF is a thing, so he has some skeletons in the closet for sure. Run OP.

Sadly, men like this are less likely to be incels, cause women fall for it, for not even the bare minimum but the façade of the bare minimum.

Yes, in my experience the vast, vast majority of men who call themselves feminists are creeps.

If a man is a real feminist, he doesn't have to announce it

Precisely. His actions and responses to women's unprompted inquiry to speak for him. We get to decide; not them.

[–] KissMyOvaries 43 points Edited

Same. My ex was a self proclaimed feminist and always wore this shirt that said “this is what a feminist looks like”. He was porn sick and wanted to do CNC rape re-enactment. Ugh.

My experience with self proclaimed 'male feminists' as well.Creepy, emotionally abusive and often sexually predatory.

Irl I've met zero actual male feminists. At this point I really don't know if they even exist offline

Weirdly, the guy I think of is a retired Army officer I work with. Part of it is having three teenage daughters. But he just walks the walk in big ways and little ways. Like when he heard a visiting delegation had been deeply creepy and sexist in front of a couple of us, very junior women who weren’t comfortable saying anything, he had them leave the premises and then sent a note back to their headquarters saying that even if it was acceptable for them to behave that way at home, they weren’t allowed to in our organization.

And then when I started going to the gym, the guy I was dating at the time told me to make sure I didn’t get bulky shoulders because that wasn’t attractive in a woman. My coworker said, first of all “if it were that easy to get bulky then men with vastly more natural testosterone than you wouldn’t take supplements in order to do it, but second, any guy who doesn’t want you getting stronger, mentally or physically, is not on your side, and the well-adjusted men think strong women are attractive.”

In general they are like hen’s teeth though.

Yes. Many men who call themselves “feminists” sexually assault/rape women. Happened to me by my ex. I’ve heard sooooo many similar stories.

Men do this as a way of making women feel safe. “He’s a feminist, so he would never hurt me. He’s a feminist, so he would never take advantage of me.” Bullshit. He’s just lying to disarm you!

So true. I've met plenty of "feminist" men before who would just endlessly virtue signal, thinking it'd get them laid. I thought he was different for some reason but nope. They never are.

If I ever date again, I have decided to bring J.K. Rowling up on the first or second date. Much easier to get rid of a misogynist early.

[–] furyosa no, thank you 16 points

A man proclaiming he's a feminist is like a man proclaiming he's a woman; he's likely trying to lower your guard to make you an easier prey.

Sometimes they're even the same person. Before he was "Charlotte", Charles Clymer was a (creepy) male """feminist""".

[–] otterstrom 25 points Edited

Exactly. Any man who would actually qualify as a feminist (which depending on your view he may or may not be able to do, me being in the latter camp)… if he truly did get it then he wouldn’t say such a thing.

Load more (1 comment)

He doesn't sound like an intellectual equal.

Sadly true. It's become clear from this interaction and a few others that he comes off as an intellectual at first, but when you try to dig below the surface, all of his opinions are actually shallow and lacking in critical thought.

His critical thought is "This whole conversation would be easier if you just told me what opinions to have which lead to you sleeping with me"

No, he's holding back. He'll show his true colors once you either move in together, have a kid, or get married. Look up trans widows. Take these red flags as red flags and move on.

I don't think anyone here is a fan of this guy, but that's some high extrapolation

I think he's of normal intelligence. A horny TRA who doesn't want to mess up his chances. OP should tell him to date a TIM and block.

[–] voltairine 5 points Edited

i agree. my bf and i don't agree about some trans issues (he thinks twaw to an extent but with child safety stuff he's always 100% on my side) however he always says to me that it is important we have different views and disagree on things. i'm quite an anxious person so i thought when i "came out" as a terf it'd make him leave me but he just ends up listening to all my terfy ramblings and i'm still hoping to peak him someday.

[–] shewolfoffrance 🦕 81 points Edited

I can't stand the "why do you care?" line. I'm not a 15 year old FLDS girl, but I don't want them to be forced into marriage with men three times their age. I'm not a rhinoceros, but I don't want them hunted into extinction. I'm not topsoil, but I don't want it destroyed because of monocropping.

You'd think the "Be Kind" crew would have a little more EmPaThY.

ETA Sometimes men can be won over, even if they don't "officially" concede defeat in an argument. Obviously, you have ZERO obligation to keep trying to convince him, but I think confronting was the right thing to do.

Same! If we all ONLY cared about the issues that effect us directly, we'd never get any kind of social change done. But this was especially annoying because the issue does directly effect me. I'm a fucking woman! So asking why I would care makes no sense by any type of logic.

Seriously! It effects all women, but especially marginalized women--women from religious minorities, women in prisons or domestic violence shelters, and low-wage female retail workers who have to try to deal with fetishistic men who want to beat off in the women's dressing room.

Oh fuck I never even thought of perverted dudes in changing rooms. JFC women need pepper spray literally just to go to work now

Did you ask him why HE cares so much? I.e. cares enough to fight his girlfriend over it?

Either he is a hypocrite (he obviously cares about whether TIMs get to invade womens' spaces, even though he isn't one) or he plans to make you a transwidow.

If he was just parroting the opinion the thinks will get him laid, one would assume he'd change his opinion pretty fast upon finding out this sort of opinion won't get him laid with you. (Though of course, some men are pretty irrational and might follow tactics they've been told "all women love" even when a woman tells them she hates it)

Right?? The “why do you care” line always baffles the heck out of me. Because I’m not a psychopath, dude. That’s why I care about other people.

It makes more sense when you realize they're really saying "Why do you care about anyone who isn't me?"

It’s also useful for

“I just got backed into a corner and don’t want to concede the point, so I’ll turn it around on you”

He finally he just ended the convo there, saying he didn’t understand why I “was so upset”

Omg is this ever EVER so typical of men.

It's genuinely infuriating. It was so clearly coming from a place of insecurity, he tried to DARVO and act like I was the hysterical one for simply asking him to explain his (seemingly very passionate) opinion

He was expecting applause and instead he was exposed. It’s very telling how men respond

Lol he really was expecting op to fawn over him and how progressive he is. What an ass

Exactly this!!

I got downvoted for trying to be fair about the fact I used to think like that. ‘Be kind to the harmless, (ie dickless), gay men’

But the concerning part to me was the ‘flip it around when I lost the match” I dated a guy like that and unfortunately had to learn the hard way

I was trying not to play into the habit where every single online relationship question gets all the responses like “leave him, I would because I’m such a strong person…did I mention how I’m not like the other girls?” This leaves women feeling bad about themselves if they stay.

I only give my opinion in dumping someone if they ask, ‘should I dump him?’. I just try to tell people what I’m seeing based on what bit they tell me.

But you already caught it, so you are definitely further along than young me was!!

[–] otterstrom 1 points Edited

I was trying not to play into the habit where every single online relationship question gets all the responses like “leave him, I would because I’m such a strong person…did I mention how I’m not like the other girls?” This leaves women feeling bad about themselves if they stay.

This attitude is coming from defensiveness: defense of the poorly behaving men, and defense of the self which is still very much activated in the "deprecate self, protect men, fight amongst other women instead" programming. Women who suggest you leave an unhealthy situation are not saying they are better than you--- they're saying they're better than those men. To make it all about you versus other women (and to infer they're "not like other girls"ing you) means that you don't have to focus on the situation you're in (aka shitty males) and instead fall for the old divided and conquer tactic. Stop defending men. Stop fighting other women to defend men.

Right? They're wrong and/or frustrated so they deflect

Assholes, 99% of them

[–] vulvapeople 42 points Edited

he didn’t understand why I “was so upset” and why I “cared so much” about this topic.

Why does he care so much? Typical male reversal. He's clearly extremely upset and projects that onto you. Gotta save the special men from mean women.

[–] immersang ★♫☆❉★♬☆ 29 points Edited

Maybe I’m showing my age with this, but I don’t think I could date someone who uses “she’s been cancelled” unironically as an argument.

(Not to mention all the other red flags such as “self-proclaimed male radical feminist”.)

Intelligent people will want to read banned books, hear "cancelled people's" arguments. Sheep will stop at the red mark.

He got so bent out of shape that you didn't agree with him and challenged him, that he had to flip it around as if you were the one worked up over it and arguing...

⛽💡

Yup. I'll admit it felt so good to challenge him. He clearly thought I'd just mindlessly agree. His response was clear, he tried to cover it up by flipping it around on me, but he was clearly flustered to say the least.

🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩

This is indicative of what he will continue to do if you further pursue a relationship with this man. He will just become more and more like this, escalating each time. Get out while you can!

[–] FeminineMistake 29 points Edited

To me, it wouldn’t be so much the difference of opinion, as the holding of Very Strong Opinions and a lot of hostility toward a woman based on … drivel? Gossip? Third hand accounts of other people who may have found her hurtful?

In most cases I get along better with people with whom I disagree, who have robust and well thought out reasons for believing as they do, than I do with people who might share my opinions but don’t understand the intellectual underpinnings or have a logical basis for them.

Right? It took me less than 5 minutes to find JKR's LITERALLY VIOLENT tweet, then another 5 to read the VIOLENT AF response to the outrage and another 15 seconds to be completely disgusted at the death and rape threats that super feminine trans rights activists directed at her

I honestly don't get how anyone can read the original things she tweeted and be enraged by it.

Exactly! Which is why it took him 15 minutes to find something he could possibly construe as offensive. He couldn't find anything else on her because there is nothing else...

I'm sorry you have to deal with this dude. I hope he isn't a psycho or anything

Because when you exclude others, they can’t exist.

Huh. Sure was weird when all the white, Asian, Pacific Islander, etc. people disappeared when BLM decided it was about black people.

I'm disintegrating as we speak because I'm excluded from Olympics participation on account of being disabled, fat and not an athlete. I'm not going to recover until I get my validation trophy.

Yeah, that line was so bad I was embarrassed to even type it out. I think he was embarrassed as soon as he said it too lol

That's hilarious, he should be embarrassed. I hope he loses sleep thinking about your conversation and how stupid he knows he sounded.

Load more (39 comments)