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Latest example is Kate 'Chase' Strangio:

https://twitter.com/chasestrangio/status/1574369228626563075?s=20&t=OKTfXOaw-MtRoGE18rqtNw

I had top surgery 13 years ago. There is not a day that goes by that I don’t think about how it was the best thing I have ever done for my survival. I also had orthopedic knee surgery at 14 and often regret it. But no NYTs pieces about orthopedic regret I see.

This tweet is at 46 000 likes so far. I honestly can't believe how people can be so dumb. In the case of knee surgeries there's a real physical problem. In the case of trans procedures there's no problem. Zero. It's all in their head and it's mainly about beauty. When doing a knee surgery the goal is to fix the problem because the knee doesn't function properly. When doing trans body modifications, the goal is to modify the body in a way that the patient customer desires because of a fetish/trauma/internalised homophobia/misogyny etc. There's nothing medical about it. This is not healthcare. Implying your healthy female body is so terrible you can't survive unless it's mutilated is peak misogyny and also offensive to people with real life-threatening diseases. Trans "care" is nothing more than a body mutilation cult fueled by misogyny and homophobia. But Strangio goes on, this thread no doubt was written in support of teenage girls having their breast amputated:

Pediatric ACL surgery is very common, particularly for athletes in girls’ sports who are not supported in strength training. It comes with a lifetime of potential complications. Many surgeries do. And yet this is how medicine works

Meanwhile we hear about an “explosion” in trans care. But so much of the need was always there we just had no access to treatment. I spent years trying to access top surgery had to travel across the country for care and paid for it with student loans.

When I woke up from knee surgery, I felt like my body was mutilated, I felt depressed and disembodied and have had to spend decades working to regain strength and have had two subsequent knee surgeries.

By contrast, my top surgery had no complications and enabled my life to be full and free. I am alive because of that care. I would give almost anything to have had access to it earlier.

Trans people and those who care for us are under tremendous threat. We are having all the wrong conversations and I fear for what that means for the many people who have a medical need that has exposed the fear of how powerful bodily autonomy can be.

No shit, there are certainly some very disturbed people on this planet who will be happy to have parts of their bodies amputated or damaged. That doesn't mean we should mutilate them. The vast majority of people who identify as trans would never have developed a trans identity or even gender dysphoria if not for the normalisation and popularisation of transgenderism. And in the rare cases where the gender confusion occurs from a young age, it always proves to stem from sexism or homophobia. There are zero people on this planet born in the wrong body. I'm so fucking tired of this cult.

Latest example is Kate 'Chase' Strangio: https://twitter.com/chasestrangio/status/1574369228626563075?s=20&t=OKTfXOaw-MtRoGE18rqtNw > I had top surgery 13 years ago. There is not a day that goes by that I don’t think about how it was the best thing I have ever done for my survival. I also had orthopedic knee surgery at 14 and often regret it. But no NYTs pieces about orthopedic regret I see. This tweet is at 46 000 likes so far. I honestly can't believe how people can be so dumb. In the case of knee surgeries there's a real physical problem. In the case of trans procedures there's no problem. Zero. It's all in their head and it's mainly about beauty. When doing a knee surgery the goal is to fix the problem because the knee doesn't function properly. When doing trans body modifications, the goal is to modify the body in a way that the ~~patient~~ customer desires because of a fetish/trauma/internalised homophobia/misogyny etc. There's nothing medical about it. This is not healthcare. Implying your healthy female body is so terrible you can't survive unless it's mutilated is peak misogyny and also offensive to people with real life-threatening diseases. Trans "care" is nothing more than a body mutilation cult fueled by misogyny and homophobia. But Strangio goes on, this thread no doubt was written in support of teenage girls having their breast amputated: > Pediatric ACL surgery is very common, particularly for athletes in girls’ sports who are not supported in strength training. It comes with a lifetime of potential complications. Many surgeries do. And yet this is how medicine works > Meanwhile we hear about an “explosion” in trans care. But so much of the need was always there we just had no access to treatment. I spent years trying to access top surgery had to travel across the country for care and paid for it with student loans. > When I woke up from knee surgery, I felt like my body was mutilated, I felt depressed and disembodied and have had to spend decades working to regain strength and have had two subsequent knee surgeries. > By contrast, my top surgery had no complications and enabled my life to be full and free. I am alive because of that care. I would give almost anything to have had access to it earlier. > Trans people and those who care for us are under tremendous threat. We are having all the wrong conversations and I fear for what that means for the many people who have a medical need that has exposed the fear of how powerful bodily autonomy can be. No shit, there are certainly some very disturbed people on this planet who will be happy to have parts of their bodies amputated or damaged. That doesn't mean we should mutilate them. The vast majority of people who identify as trans would never have developed a trans identity or even gender dysphoria if not for the normalisation and popularisation of transgenderism. And in the rare cases where the gender confusion occurs from a young age, it always proves to stem from sexism or homophobia. There are zero people on this planet born in the wrong body. I'm so fucking tired of this cult.

33 comments

By contrast, my top surgery had no complications and enabled my life to be full and free.

Given how obsessed you are with stripping other women of our rights, I'mma go out on a limb here and say you are lying, ma'am.

[–] QueenSnake 0 points Edited

I saw someone once compare it to letting a child pierce their ears once. Guess they were going the “body modification” route. Amazing

Alright. I have to call horseshit here.

I have had the exact surgery Chase is swearing is terrible and causes lifelong medical patient status.

No. Not that it's impossible but its not common. Full ACL tears happen, I wasn't even in sport but an accident.

Yes, the way they fix it for young adults and under is a difficult thing to deal with. Yes you will have a big scar

No, its not really optional that young unless you want to have no knee function when you are older

No it does not have a high rate of failure. Physical therapy is required but you are not going to spend decades getting back your abilities unless you were like a peak performance ballerina or something.

It happens to college level athletes all the time. I shared my pt time slot with a couple. They worked harder and recovered faster. Most of them have surgery and return to the field. Do they have a lot of dedicated attention and PT sure but its not always even a career ender at the pro level.

Nothing is 100 percent and im not going to say all medical surgeries are even good ideas but this is the most insane comparison ever. A number of knee surgeries are pretty bad ideas.

But how you wind up with lifelong regret and medical status and multiple surgeries for an acl replacement when you are young I genuinely do not know unless you are exceptionally unlucky or have a shitty surgeon.

Or....something else is going on and you're basically telling half truths to make it sound like it's more of a reasonable comparison than it is.

Also ACL tears are easily validated by an MRI. There's a fuzzy line of worth fixing or not if incomplete, but for a complete tear it won't heal (barring newer developments in stem cells and such that did not exist for Strangio or myself at that age)

What a fucking crackpot.

OK, "Chase," I'll play along.

When you have surgery - any surgery - the doctor will go over pros and cons, risks and benefits, you have to sign off that you acknowledge these things. Anyone who gets knee surgery knows it might not work. The problem might come back. There is only so much material in the knee to work with. Etc etc etc. Generally knee surgery is only even brought up IF it is the only best option, after PT or cortisone or other things are exhausted or ruled out. So your regret, if you have it... any lingering effects... these are things your parents were aware of when you had your surgery. They discussed all these things, they were allowed to ask ANY questions or raise ANY concerns, free of judgement... and then you had the surgery.

When an athlete has surgery, everything hangs in the balance wondering if they will really be able to go back to the game. If a parent were to say, "My daughter might never dance again, but she can walk and do every day activities just fine. Is it really worth the risk of the surgery, when we know if might not work?" Such a question would be answered honestly and up front. The parent would not be accused of dancephobia. Suicide threats would not be trotted out - the parent would not be told "Would you rather have a live dancer or a dead walker?"

Nothing is off the table, in terms of what questions you can ask your child's surgeon before surgery. If you were to find a story on the internet about a person who had knee problems and had surgery and still couldn't go back to xyz sport, you wouldn't be told "Well maybe they never really had knee problems. Maybe it's something else." You would discuss actual concrete complications that may have come up, why it didn't work, what parts of that story apply to your situation, etc.

It is a known fact that knee surgeries often lead to more surgeries. This is why people are told they are too young for joint replacements - it's know a joint replacement will fail and result in another replacement in a certain amount of time - so it is thought better to address the problem through other means as long as possible. This is the case with a lot of orthopedic surgeries... doctors will discuss more conservative approaches to begin with and try to do surgery only if the benefits outweigh the risks.

You are not allowed to discuss any of these things when it is your child pushing for "gender affirming" surgery. Researchers have been discouraged from studying detransitioners. Detransitioners are attacked when they come out and say they regret their surgery. We do not have the counterpoints for parents whose children are flirting with gender identiy - and it's not just because it's a new area, it's because certain people - people like "Chase" - don't want that data gathered. THAT is the difference.

The ironic thing is that Strangio's little anecdote proves our point. Even though her knee surgery was arguably necessary, it still fucked her up for years. And that is because.....EVERY SURGERY CARRIES RISK!!!! Even when it's a necessary, life or death procedure, cutting into the body is a serious thing that can leave life long side effects. Not to mention the risks that come with the anesthesia and whatever follow up care/medications one might need. Surgery isn't something to be done lightly (especially when we're talking about the developing bodies of children and adolescents). But Strangio wants to keep telling kids that mastectomies are no more significant than a manicure despite whining about how a minor knee surgery almost ruined her life.

Yeah, that too.

Humanity is, it seems, too fucked up in the head to ever be happy.

After the invention of antiobiotics, instead of being happy we can now cure all bacterial diseases, people started feeding them to livestock for faster weight increase, drastically reducing their efficiency in humans.

Also, we can now do complicated surgery, even brain surgery, relatively safely, and instead of being happy that they can get surgery when they need it, people start doing it when they don't need it, wasting money and time.

[–] Mythimna 2 points Edited

The analogy is poor but my understanding is that knee surgeries indeed have an extremely low success and satisfaction rate, especially compared to other joint surgeries. This is partly because the knee is complex but also because many knee issues are in fact hip, glute, foot and postural issues and would be better resolved by physiotherapy. Oddly enough full ACL tears seem to be one of the few things that do seem to be more successfully treated with surgery, but less invasive techniques like stem cell therapy are also starting to be used. In my limited experience with this field, there is a reliance on 'quick fix' solutions like surgery or steroid injections that are not helpful or actively damaging, so that is an apt comparison to current trans healthcare models.

The analogy Strangio uses is bad because 1) if both fields are bad both should be targeted, it's not an argument to ease up on "trans" surgery; 2) it's the context of trans healthcare that is deeply disturbing. Permanent body modifications are made on the basis of psychological problems and a socially contagious, almost religious belief in gender identity.

Yeah, I read that too - knee surgeries compared to placebo operations don't have much of an effect. But, here's the thing: They don't make things worse, much of the time, either. Okay, she had to have two additional knee surgeries, but her knee works, does it?

Knee surgery doesn't remove healthy body parts, as far as I'm informed. Double mastectomy is perhaps, perhaps comparable with getting an artificial hip joint. (Like, you can get implants to replace what you had removed, but it won't be the same and need regular care for safety.) And genital surgery is a very different thing entirely.

And that's not even getting started on what removing the reproductive organs does to the female body.

Modern medicine is very careless with the removal of body parts in general, I will give her that. I've heard a doctor say it wasn't a problem if, in doing surgery on the thyroid gland, one removed too much, as the hormone could, after all, be artificially replaced.

Turning people into lifelong medical patients is something of a trend. (I recently learnt that having your stomach made smaller, a very popular surgery for weight loss, led to needing food supplements for the rest of your life. Didn't know that, was kinda horrified - that's not really mentioned in the media.)

Doesn't mean that it's okay.

It's worth considering that many surgeries have been performed entirely unnecessarily because surgeons get paid to do surgery. Sometimes it is perhaps excusable ignorance, other times we know we knew better.

The horror lobotomies have been highlighted many times. Tonsillectomies used to be very common in children and the closer we looked, the more we saw that there was no benefit. I know that many surgical interventions for back pain were debunked. A recent podcast: https://invertedpassion.com/most-surgeries-are-ineffective/

We should all be critical of the risk benefit of any surgical procedure. Many people discuss this issue broadly, "trans" surgeries are just one example but a very easy thing for anyone to ask "why the hell are we doing this?".

My favorite was the meme about how ballet altered someone's body in childhood without their full informed consent and therefore puberty blockers are completely OK.

Or how we're hypocrites if we oppose puberty blockers and don't also oppose kids being forced into sports or music lessons the don't want

Darkly comical that Strangio would say this given that her nipples aren't on straight. But, sure, great results.

Not a new sentiment by any means but why are they all so eager to become patients for life?? I've only ever had two surgeries (technically three? maybe?) and I can't imagine CHOOSING to do that just for the ~ affirmation. Hospitals suck!

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