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About a month ago, I posted about an email exchange with Nick Mitchell, a Democratic Congressional Candidate from Utah.

He did end up responding, but when it reached the point about setting up a call (with other women), he stopped. I am done with this exchange but wanted to post his comments and my last response, which he has ignored (I did not include all of his email, as it included a discussion of his son (that was friendly, in fairness) but I don't feel comfortable posting about another person's children).

Nick Mitchell, Aug. 30th, 2022:

'' I totally understand the plight that women are in being in a country run by males mostly white if we are being frank. I just want the best for everyone I want everyone to be accepted as they view themselves. I personally was in the closet for 29 years due to aspects like religion( I grew up LDS and even went on a mission to the Philippines) also my race being not straight in the black community was not really accepted that much when I came out my birthday was pretty ashamed of me. Also being in the sport of football where in the entire history of the game there has only been 1 openly gay man on an active NFL roster. The happiest I have been is when I came out as my most authentic self, and all I want for everybody is to be themselves and be as happy as I am.

Now when it comes to gender identity it's something that is new and we are still trying to understand everything about it but as long as no one is getting hurt by it I don't see a problem with it. it's how people choose to self-identify. I am no expert on the matter but I have done a fair amount of research about the issues surrounding it. In hopes to understand the issues on both sides to hopefully come to an understanding and help bring people together instead of creating more division in our country. I am going to answer each of your questions in the second paragraph.

For your first question about those who identify as lesbians being forced to sleep with someone with a penis is unacceptable I don't think anyone should be forced to sleep with people that they don't want to sleep in my mind that falls under conversation therapy which is so wrong I can't stand it.

When it comes to jailing people according to their gender identity specifically people when it comes to people being raped or sleeping together I am aware of the one situation in which a transgender woman impregnated 2 other women while incarcerated. I read it was consensual between the parties at hand but I'm not aware of the legalities of being a prisoner and having sex with one another. We are all well aware that sex does happen in all male of all female prisons. If there has been more than one incident of a transgender woman impregnating another inmate please let me know because I looked for a while and couldn't find any other reports. I have seen a lot of reports of transgender females being abused in male prisons though.

I'm not saying being a woman is not just an identity. The plight of women is extreme the amount of domestic violence, rape, and being paid less is not right in any way shape or form. I think the penalities for rape and domestic violence should be much stiffer than they are. I respect women so much and like everybody I want people to be treated equally an fairly. I personally think women represent the best of humanity. when it comes to doctors I have a real problem because I have experienced the same thing when I'm alone(i am adopted by white people) if they showed up then all a sudden I got a whole lot better care. it's outrageous and makes me mad. people would be treated equally. When it comes to abortion I am extremely pro-choice. like I said I am adopted I'm lucky enough to know my birth parents and I asked my birth mom why she didn't get an abortion she said it had to do with religion which I respect, but she had the choice to get one and the choice was not made for her like it is being done now in so many states in our country.

I want you to know that I support women I want the best for them and for everybody. It was the way I was raised, I also think there is room for us to become more accepting of people and who they are. I know this is a very extremely sensitive issue for a lot of people me included. I honestly think if we come together and talk about these issues we can come to a common understanding and come up with some real viable solutions that make everyone happy. It should never be an us vs. them ideology but an ideology of we are one and we need to come together and reach a common solution that helps and includes everyone. That is my goal and that's why I love talking to people who have different viewpoints than me so I can incorporate their views and ideas into my solutions. Ill definitely read that poem you sent me as well as the hyperlink you sent me.

I am always open to talk if you would like we can set up a zoom meeting or a phone call where we can talk more. I truly do care and understand where you are coming from, and know I will fight for women's rights across the board. When it comes to something new like Transgender rights we need to come together and be more accepting. As we work together I am positive we can come up with solutions so everyone can feel safe, be included, and be their happiest and truest selves. I know there are many more issues surrounding the transgender community and I am happy to talk about them in a respectful manner. Earlier you mentioned that there are a lot of women not just Democrats who feel this way let's get a big zoom meeting together and have a respectful conversation about everything, I am incredibly open to that. How does that sound?

Thanks so much for taking the time to email me and have such an open and honest conversation I hope I explained myself well enough I'm not an eloquent writer but I try if you have more questions or like to communicate further I am extremely open to it just let me know. Thank you so much, Nick Mitchell''

Me, Sept. 1st, 2022: ''Hi Nick,

I appreciate you taking the time to respond. I think a big problem about this issue is the silencing tactics that have been employed to silence women who believe as I do. It is similar to how you responded to that woman on Twitter. For simply disagreeing, we are called bigots and, worse, sent rape and death threats. It is now the acceptable way to insult and threaten violence against women. This is why it's so difficult to organize around this issue. Women are afraid of opening themselves up to that treatment, losing their jobs, and being branded a bigot for understanding the simplest truth of our species. It's madness.

You say that as long as people aren't getting hurt, then there isn't a problem. However, people are getting hurt. Women and girls. When we are told, by people who claim to be progressive, that being a woman is an identity (you may not say it, but the people you support do. The ACLU itself has said there are no differences between men and women. I don't know how anyone can say that with a straight face) and thus not a biological reality determined at conception, then the sex-based protections women have fought for centuries to achieve are meaningless. When men are allowed into women's prisons and women's wards in hospitals (which has lead to assault and rape in prisons in the US, Ireland, and the UK), domestic violence shelters, changing rooms, etc. we are telling women that their safety and their lives are less important than men's feelings. And we can't even discuss it because we are immediately decried as bigots. It feels like a backlash to any gains feminists have made in the last 50 years.

Gender ideology is just that, an ideology. It has no basis in science whatsoever. Just as the earth is not flat, men are not women. Nothing can change the fact that humans are a gonochoric species. You said nothing to refute that, as it is impossible to refute.

It is utterly baffling that so many people have thrown their support behind this, and the only reason I can think of is that because only women are negatively impacted, it is not considered significant, as is the case with so many things women experience because of our biology (like endometriosis, pain in childbirth, menopause etc). It is diminished because we still live in a world dominated by the whims of men.

I will end with this: As I understand and accept biology, I do not believe in gender identity and gender ideology. I think it is more akin to a religion that is being forced on us. However, just as I respect people with religious beliefs, I respect people who say they are trans. I simply know that they are not the opposite sex. For this reason, I do not support the rewriting of laws and policies allowing trans-identified men into places protected for women. I also do not accept the erasure of language that accurately describes female anatomy and experiences. To do otherwise is not accepting; it is ignoring material reality and caters to men at the expense of women. A tale as old as time.

Saying you are trans is nothing like being gay. Sexuality is innate. Sex is immutable. But gender identity? Without relying on sexist stereotypes (such as saying that because you feel feminine, you are a woman, as if being feminine is a prerequisite. It isn't. It's a personality trait), it is impossible to explain clearly.

I would be happy to organize a zoom meeting. This is a very important issue and is making many Democratic women question actually voting for Democrats this year, which is concerning. Again, I appreciate your willingness to discuss this topic. It's encouraging.

Best,''

So that's the end of that. What a wild ride it was.

About a month ago, [I posted](https://ovarit.com/o/GenderCritical/147381/my-email-exchange-with-utah-congressional-candidate-nick-mitchell) about an email exchange with Nick Mitchell, a Democratic Congressional Candidate from Utah. He did end up responding, but when it reached the point about setting up a call (with other women), he stopped. I am done with this exchange but wanted to post his comments and my last response, which he has ignored (I did not include all of his email, as it included a discussion of his son (that was friendly, in fairness) but I don't feel comfortable posting about another person's children). Nick Mitchell, Aug. 30th, 2022: '' I totally understand the plight that women are in being in a country run by males mostly white if we are being frank. I just want the best for everyone I want everyone to be accepted as they view themselves. I personally was in the closet for 29 years due to aspects like religion( I grew up LDS and even went on a mission to the Philippines) also my race being not straight in the black community was not really accepted that much when I came out my birthday was pretty ashamed of me. Also being in the sport of football where in the entire history of the game there has only been 1 openly gay man on an active NFL roster. The happiest I have been is when I came out as my most authentic self, and all I want for everybody is to be themselves and be as happy as I am. Now when it comes to gender identity it's something that is new and we are still trying to understand everything about it but as long as no one is getting hurt by it I don't see a problem with it. it's how people choose to self-identify. I am no expert on the matter but I have done a fair amount of research about the issues surrounding it. In hopes to understand the issues on both sides to hopefully come to an understanding and help bring people together instead of creating more division in our country. I am going to answer each of your questions in the second paragraph. For your first question about those who identify as lesbians being forced to sleep with someone with a penis is unacceptable I don't think anyone should be forced to sleep with people that they don't want to sleep in my mind that falls under conversation therapy which is so wrong I can't stand it. When it comes to jailing people according to their gender identity specifically people when it comes to people being raped or sleeping together I am aware of the one situation in which a transgender woman impregnated 2 other women while incarcerated. I read it was consensual between the parties at hand but I'm not aware of the legalities of being a prisoner and having sex with one another. We are all well aware that sex does happen in all male of all female prisons. If there has been more than one incident of a transgender woman impregnating another inmate please let me know because I looked for a while and couldn't find any other reports. I have seen a lot of reports of transgender females being abused in male prisons though. I'm not saying being a woman is not just an identity. The plight of women is extreme the amount of domestic violence, rape, and being paid less is not right in any way shape or form. I think the penalities for rape and domestic violence should be much stiffer than they are. I respect women so much and like everybody I want people to be treated equally an fairly. I personally think women represent the best of humanity. when it comes to doctors I have a real problem because I have experienced the same thing when I'm alone(i am adopted by white people) if they showed up then all a sudden I got a whole lot better care. it's outrageous and makes me mad. people would be treated equally. When it comes to abortion I am extremely pro-choice. like I said I am adopted I'm lucky enough to know my birth parents and I asked my birth mom why she didn't get an abortion she said it had to do with religion which I respect, but she had the choice to get one and the choice was not made for her like it is being done now in so many states in our country. I want you to know that I support women I want the best for them and for everybody. It was the way I was raised, I also think there is room for us to become more accepting of people and who they are. I know this is a very extremely sensitive issue for a lot of people me included. I honestly think if we come together and talk about these issues we can come to a common understanding and come up with some real viable solutions that make everyone happy. It should never be an us vs. them ideology but an ideology of we are one and we need to come together and reach a common solution that helps and includes everyone. That is my goal and that's why I love talking to people who have different viewpoints than me so I can incorporate their views and ideas into my solutions. Ill definitely read that poem you sent me as well as the hyperlink you sent me. I am always open to talk if you would like we can set up a zoom meeting or a phone call where we can talk more. I truly do care and understand where you are coming from, and know I will fight for women's rights across the board. When it comes to something new like Transgender rights we need to come together and be more accepting. As we work together I am positive we can come up with solutions so everyone can feel safe, be included, and be their happiest and truest selves. I know there are many more issues surrounding the transgender community and I am happy to talk about them in a respectful manner. Earlier you mentioned that there are a lot of women not just Democrats who feel this way let's get a big zoom meeting together and have a respectful conversation about everything, I am incredibly open to that. How does that sound? Thanks so much for taking the time to email me and have such an open and honest conversation I hope I explained myself well enough I'm not an eloquent writer but I try if you have more questions or like to communicate further I am extremely open to it just let me know. Thank you so much, Nick Mitchell'' Me, Sept. 1st, 2022: ''Hi Nick, I appreciate you taking the time to respond. I think a big problem about this issue is the silencing tactics that have been employed to silence women who believe as I do. It is similar to how you responded to that woman on Twitter. For simply disagreeing, we are called bigots and, worse, sent rape and death threats. It is now the acceptable way to insult and threaten violence against women. This is why it's so difficult to organize around this issue. Women are afraid of opening themselves up to that treatment, losing their jobs, and being branded a bigot for understanding the simplest truth of our species. It's madness. You say that as long as people aren't getting hurt, then there isn't a problem. However, people are getting hurt. Women and girls. When we are told, by people who claim to be progressive, that being a woman is an identity (you may not say it, but the people you support do. The ACLU itself has said there are no differences between men and women. I don't know how anyone can say that with a straight face) and thus not a biological reality determined at conception, then the sex-based protections women have fought for centuries to achieve are meaningless. When men are allowed into women's prisons and women's wards in hospitals (which has lead to assault and rape in prisons in the US, Ireland, and the UK), domestic violence shelters, changing rooms, etc. we are telling women that their safety and their lives are less important than men's feelings. And we can't even discuss it because we are immediately decried as bigots. It feels like a backlash to any gains feminists have made in the last 50 years. Gender ideology is just that, an ideology. It has no basis in science whatsoever. Just as the earth is not flat, men are not women. Nothing can change the fact that humans are a gonochoric species. You said nothing to refute that, as it is impossible to refute. It is utterly baffling that so many people have thrown their support behind this, and the only reason I can think of is that because only women are negatively impacted, it is not considered significant, as is the case with so many things women experience because of our biology (like endometriosis, pain in childbirth, menopause etc). It is diminished because we still live in a world dominated by the whims of men. I will end with this: As I understand and accept biology, I do not believe in gender identity and gender ideology. I think it is more akin to a religion that is being forced on us. However, just as I respect people with religious beliefs, I respect people who say they are trans. I simply know that they are not the opposite sex. For this reason, I do not support the rewriting of laws and policies allowing trans-identified men into places protected for women. I also do not accept the erasure of language that accurately describes female anatomy and experiences. To do otherwise is not accepting; it is ignoring material reality and caters to men at the expense of women. A tale as old as time. Saying you are trans is nothing like being gay. Sexuality is innate. Sex is immutable. But gender identity? Without relying on sexist stereotypes (such as saying that because you feel feminine, you are a woman, as if being feminine is a prerequisite. It isn't. It's a personality trait), it is impossible to explain clearly. I would be happy to organize a zoom meeting. This is a very important issue and is making many Democratic women question actually voting for Democrats this year, which is concerning. Again, I appreciate your willingness to discuss this topic. It's encouraging. Best,'' So that's the end of that. What a wild ride it was.

14 comments

[–] Medusa 33 points Edited

"Men might leave church, but they never leave the misogyny." - my mom

His whole email is filled with little digs and condescension, but this really takes the cake for me, after having women tell him about the problems we're experiencing and "doing his research":

Now when it comes to gender identity it's something that is new and we are still trying to understand everything about it but as long as no one is getting hurt by it I don't see a problem with it.

Really glad you called him on this. Wow.

(Edit: added the second paragraph shortly after this was posted and edited again to fix an annoying typo.)

If there has been more than one incident of a transgender woman impregnating another inmate please let me know because I looked for a while and couldn't find any other reports.

Sure. Impregnating, I don’t know but assaulting brings up a bunch of results, including multiple lawsuits. It shouldn’t have to result in pregnancy to count.

Anyway, you’ve had a more productive exchange with a politician than I’ve seen so far. My Democratic reps have all responded to me with form letters as if I’m a religious conservative, and when I write back to tell them my objections are secular and reality-based they stop responding at all.

This guy has to respond and engage with people if he wants to get his platform out there and make any kind of difference. He's up against the incumbent for Utah's congressional district 2, which is pretty solidly red.

To me, it's clear as day that he came into this thinking he was going to "educate" a mean church lady who didn't know better. It's not surprising that he ghosted after realizing the woman who responded is articulate, well-informed, supports secular government, and wants to arrange a call for other democrat women to speak with him about trans ideology. (What I would give to have been a fly on the wall when he read that email and had that realization...)

He's kind of doing the bare minimum expected for the region, and in true regional fashion, he's doing it in the most earnest, passive-aggressively condescending way possible.

Is more than one report necessary? Does he really think women getting pregnant in fucking prison is OK if it was "consensual"? Wtaf...

That really bothered me as well. In prison, sex can not be consensual.

[–] Luckystar 2 points Edited

A lot of men seem to think the definition of rape necessitates a cartoonish villain twirling his mustache and physically forcing an unknown damsel down while she fights back with all of her being for every single second, and if it's anything else then it's "not real rape".

It's so exhausting trying to explain to someone that eg there's no such thing as a 14 year old "consenting" to sex with her math teacher, or a prison inmate "consenting" to sex with a CO in exchange for sneaking in cigarettes or whatever. Let alone explaining that there's no such thing as a 14 year old "consenting" to sex with any adult, or a prison inmate "consenting" to sex while incarcerated.

[–] Nediljka_Orwell PITA crone 8 points

Bravo. Great reply. Very well written and to the point.

I do not support the rewriting of laws and policies allowing trans-identified men into places protected for women.

That is the bottom line. Those who oppose that (and embrace reality) should never be subject to arrest, fines, or any other form of gov punishment. As a prospective lawmaker, he's got to understand that.

I'm surprised that he engaged as much as he did with you there. He's not completely oblivious. Or insensitive. He may even be peakable eventually.

Ugh you're more optimistic than me. I thought he sounded like a condescending windbag

[–] Nediljka_Orwell PITA crone 1 points

He is somewhat of a condescending windbag, (and a really lazy writer) but he's not the worst that I've seen. You should read the boiler plate replies I get from my senators, LOL. Written by their TRA aides, I'm sure.

His intersectional status (black/gay/adoptee of white parents) has sharpened his perceptions of the real world. He's got a bit of empathy and a working bullshit detector. It's possible that both could be tuned up a bit more. Maybe! ;)

Amazing that he wrote back but his feeble response is almost worse than no response. I have emailed and written my representatives most of whom seemingly support the transgender agenda, but I doubt that my messages have even been read. I subscribe to the NYT and recently there was a break in their unrelenting support of transgender rights and views when they published an article about the increase in "top surgery" There is a thread here on ovarit. If the NYT's allows comments which they don't do very often now, but if they do it seems like one way to break through to the on-the-fence or the woke crowd. Would comments at woke media sites ever filter up to political representatives? Can online polls have any sway over politicians? Alarmed about the November election

He keeps mentioning the Zoom meeting, but if you want to make the zoom meeting happen, I would recommend proposing a time, or a few different times. Perhaps even see if you can get a hold of an administrative assistant with access to his calendar to check his availability.

Excellent work by you! It may feel as if you're beating your head against a wall (of "be nice") but this is how seeds are planted.

Agreed, seeds have definitely been planted imo. It's infuriating to accept this glacial pace but in my observation there is a necessary period of time to allow a person to peak, and as long as they're not shouting "TERF" and blocking you, then there's a good chance the person will get there eventually.

I mean, it's so depressing to think, probably what will happen is either some man will tell this the candidate the exact same things OP is saying and THEN he'll decide he agrees. OR, he'll be mulling the ideas over in his head and decide he personally, individually spontaneously came up with the stance OP so kindly laid out for him. But if he gets there then he gets there I guess...