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I know it was Flavor Aid, but Kool Aid flows better...

So my friend scored some Broadway tickets at a deep discount and I ended up seeing Chicago and Harry Potter and the Cursed Child. The lead of Chicago (Roxie Hart) was played by Angelica Ross, who happens to be a TIM, one I really dislike for one huge reason, but I digress. Aside from the bad storyline, I found his acting to be wooden and unconvincing. I left the theater feeling aggravated

Second came HP, a play which I ended up liking far more than Chicago, but what interested me was how the theater employees were all wearing"ally" and pronoun pins, how there was a sign by the bathroom saying "all gender expressions welcome" and that the play's showbill had pronouns next to the cast members' bios (the Chicago one didn't have this BTW). It was like they were going out of their way to say how much they disagree with JKR's politics. 🧐

Between this and seeing the TIM at the Planned Parenthood wearing a shirt saying "no TERFs" at my local pride recently, I need a time turner myself so I can leave this clown era.

I know it was Flavor Aid, but Kool Aid flows better... So my friend scored some Broadway tickets at a deep discount and I ended up seeing *Chicago* and *Harry Potter and the Cursed Child*. The lead of Chicago (Roxie Hart) was played by Angelica Ross, who happens to be a TIM, one I really dislike for one huge reason, but I digress. Aside from the bad storyline, I found his acting to be wooden and unconvincing. I left the theater feeling aggravated Second came HP, a play which I ended up liking far more than Chicago, but what interested me was how the theater employees were all wearing"ally" and pronoun pins, how there was a sign by the bathroom saying "all gender expressions welcome" and that the play's showbill had pronouns next to the cast members' bios (the Chicago one didn't have this BTW). It was like they were going out of their way to say how much they disagree with JKR's politics. 🧐 Between this and seeing the TIM at the Planned Parenthood wearing a shirt saying "no TERFs" at my local pride recently, I need a time turner myself so I can leave this clown era.

72 comments

I don’t understand the “no terfs” sign. I have never seen it for anything else. “No racists”. “No atheists”. “No religious fundamentalists”. “No killers”. “No rapists”. Why single out the poor “terfs”?

Ok, that was a rhetorical question …

Because, in the minds of TRAs, a woman who stands up for herself and refuses to kiss male ass 24/7 is worse than a rapist, murderer, racist, etc

Perhaps we should make signs that say, "No opinionated women!" and stand outside random venues.

We should also make signs that say "No men" and stand outside the women's bathrooms

Perhaps we should make signs that say, "No opinionated women!" and stand outside random venues.

FTFY /s

[–] cupcakes_and_shiraz [OP] 🧁🍷🥰 27 points

At a Planned Parenthood table of all places. 🤦🏽

At a Planned Parenthood table of all places. 🤦🏽

Im waiting for the day that PP starts refusing reproductive care to women who refuse to chant "TRANS-WOMEN ARE WOMEN" or refuse to call themselves a "pregnant person". At this point, it honestly wouldn't surprise me...

[–] nopenottoday 17 points Edited

Something similar has already happened. The NHS published new guidelines a long time ago that said disabled women who don't want to have their intimate care done by a man can be refused treatment altogether.

[–] Lipsy i/just/can't 6 points Edited

they've come a long way from their roots—co-founded by Barry Goldwater's Wife all the way to... this 🤷🏾‍♀️

(that might just be Arizona PP, but, I've alws liked the irony that a major abortion provider was founded by Mrs. One Of The Guys Who Started Backwards-Ass "Movement Conservatism".)

Because we're dangerous, violent "Nazis" who "want to put all Trans people in camps".

It would be difficult to tell who those other labels could be and most likely no one would comment or challenge it…

We all know exactly who a “terf” is— a white woman 99% of the time. So…let any white woman dare make a comment about that sign and GOTCHA.

there was a sign by the bathroom saying "all gender expressions welcome"

This is so confusing. It's 2022. Are people in the West being banned from wearing what clothing they want? Are there laws forcing all women to act feminine and all men to act masculine? No one has tried to stop anyone from expressing themselves however they want. Just don't invade opposite-sex bathrooms.

They have to literally invent their oppression so they have something to feel heroic fighting against

Funnily enough, in classical music, we've been dealing with cross-casting for years. Starting in the '00s, it became almost mandatory to hire a countertenor (male who sings in quasi-female register) for women's alto or pants roles (I don't even know how to explain pants roles--these roles were written either for castrated men pre-18th century or for women playing boys, which was considered sort of titillating. For the most part, only women were cast in both types of roles for the past hundred years or so). We women singers used to make fun of countertenors all the time. They almost never sound as good as women--you can clock them by ear even more easily than you can clock TIMs visually. Men singers--ALL men singers, not just the countertenors, would get super prickly when the womenfolk mocked countertenors. I used to find that weird, but after 10 years of Trans v2, I understand it better.

[–] GenderHeretic Assigned2LegsAB 12 points Edited

I had a feeling I knew what kind of singers you meant and yep, when I looked it up I was right. Women mock them because they sound god damn ridiculous imitating a female voice with male vocal chords. I had a music teacher in high school who would sing this way, and well, you can imagine teenagers' reactions, even though we all tried to keep straight faces. He'd get really butthurt at the muffled snickering and "brag" (whine) that men's voices have far greater range than women's. While that's true, it's also true that the voice you're putting on sounds indistinguishable from men who are trying to sound comedic.

And the thing is that a lot of men have fantastic high voices. Extremely high voices, too, that make full use of their wider range. It's that just this silly mimicry of women's voices will always draw attention to how their voices don't measure up to what they're imitating.

I love extremely high adult male voices but not as mimicry, just as high male voices singing. For the really high voices in classical music I prefer the clarity of female voices.

I'm very interested in hearing examples of the sorts of voices you describe -- especially how women would mock countertenors, but also your opinion of what makes a good high male voice.

[–] GenderHeretic Assigned2LegsAB 8 points

I don't want to give examples as it's a matter of opinion and taste and I don't want to get sidetracked into why this or that example is good or bad. The best way I can explain what I mean is how fake a voice sounds, which again is a matter of opinion. Some singing styles (used by both sexes) involve putting on a voice, and sometimes the false or forced quality of it can be quite audible and it rubs me the wrong way (even when the singer is highly acclaimed). It's very noticeable when you compare various singers doing renditions of the same song with the same arrangement.

Men love to do silly, absurdly exaggerated voices when impersonating women, but then you have the male singers who use the same very fake type of voice for serious singing. It's not the high pitch itself, it's the resemblance in character to men's comedic mimicry of women. So we're supposed to laugh along with men when they use a particular voice to mock us, but we're also not supposed to find the exact same type of voice funny anymore when they want us to take it seriously and admire them for it.

If a male high singing voice doesn't sound like when men do an impersonation of a woman as part of a humorous anecdote, then it doesn't sound silly to me.

the voice that came to mind for me was Bruce Dickinson, the lead singer of Iron Maiden. He has a fairly high voice, and it sounds genuine, not artificial in any way

It's interesting--there's a lot of overlap for me with the gender thing. Men who sing high but don't try to ape women are the ones I enjoy listening to: Freddie Mercury, Jeff Buckley, Sting--most of them are not classical singers.

Here's an example of a top drawer classical countertenor. He's a stiff, terrible actor and though his voice doesn't have the harsh, edgy sound countertenors often have, there's no way he would have been considered good enough to cast opposite Sonya Yoncheva (the soprano in this video) if he was a woman.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SuzLj2aoys

Men also know (or at least used to know) falsettists can never be as good as singers using their natural voice. I forgot whether it was Jacopo Peri or Giulio Caccini who lambasted falsettists. Personally I do not understand the appeal of falsetto, which is in turn shrill and feeble, and always has an incorporeal feel, other than a desire for novelty. By now the novelty should've worn off, but like drag, it has somehow become rather mainstream. And there are apparently quite some people who can't tell the difference between a falsetto and a woman's voice (!) -- I've lost count of the number of times I've heard/read someone express surprise that a male role in some opera was played by a woman. They usually mean it as a compliment to the woman's acting abilities, but it seems to me they need to have their hearing checked.

Also, I suspect the rise of falsettists has something to do with misogyny and lesbophobia. Outside of some sacred music, the employment of falsettists should be antithetical to the historically informed performance movement. But since we no longer castrate boys to preserve their singing voice, we now have to be subject to these shrieking men, otherwise the early opera stage would be dominated by women (without falsettists, most drammi per musica would have 2 men at most out of a cast of 6 or 7, a few would have none). We also wouldn't want to offend the sensibilities of straight audiences who lack imagination (what other art form permits women to make love to each other in a public place and get away with it?), even though a lot of falsettists are terrible at playing the lover (many of them have no interest in women anyway).

Hilariously, a few years ago I saw a photo posted by a certain music festival that featured one "male soprano" in their Young Artist Training Program who looked suspiciously female. After a bit of googling, I found that said "male soprano" was indeed a TIF. I obviously do not want to see more women jump on the trans bandwagon, but I cannot pretend it's not funny when men lose out to female singers who claim to be male.

Counter tenors piss me off. There are so many more women who go into performing arts, and so many more male roles in opera, theatre and musicals.. why, WHY give the female parts to men?!

I saw Semele years ago which calls for a male alto in one role, and it was kind of painful to see how much the singer was struggling to hit those notes. The whole thing was a reminder to me of why I don't like Handel very much.

Handel's music is divine. It's hardly his fault that the English had a musical tradition of using falsettists. If anything, it was thanks to Handel and other Italian/Italianate composers who brought proper singers with them from the continent that the fortunes of falsettists dwindled.

New Yorkers really don't go to Broadway shows so I'm baffled by who they think the audience for this BS is. No one wants to take their mom visiting from Fort Wayne, IN to a show with girldick.

What a time to be alive. I come from partially “white trash” people and they ridiculed me my whole life for being a book worm, wanting to go to college, going to gasp grad school for a humanities subject, and being interested in classier cultural activities such as Broadway shows…

…and I was all like oh you just don’t get it! It’s great!

and now that universities and most other institutions have turned this way I’m like damnit damnit damnit I do look dumb now don’t I 😑

I once saw a production of Hamlet with a male enby playing Ophelia. His acting was weird and unnatural too, like nothing he did had anything to do with embodying her character. He was just reading lines.

Awesome - men taking women’s roles, so happy we’ve progressed all the way to the 1600s…

Awesome - men taking women’s roles, so happy we’ve progressed all the way to the 1600s…

They want to make authentic ye olde Shakespeare plays where men in drag portray the women due to rampant cultural misogyny

[–] Lipsy i/just/can't 26 points

a male enby playing Ophelia. His acting was weird and unnatural too

But enough about his gender identity, how was he on stage? 😀

they originally had men playing all the female roles in Shakespeare plays, so I guess this is...historically accurate?

Just out of curiosity, of all the trans/NB actors around, have you or anyone else seen one who was even slightly passable in acting?

My knowledge of these people is not that big, but the few ones I have seen were pretty much abysmal and all were just "reading lines", possibly because they are too busy playing (badly) the part that is their identity to leave it aside for a role in a movie/tv show.

[–] Understanderson 13 points Edited

They always look to me like they're thinking too hard about how they look. It's hard to act when you're already playing a role 24/7.

Exactly. They're playing the role of their life constantly, adding another one up just makes them look less spontaneous and involved.

They just recite the lines and nothing else, while they are busy remembering about the manners and movements they are supposed to do as "real" wo/men/NB.

An unqualified man was hired over many qualified women. So progressive!

I love stage theater but won't be going anymore. Performing arts has been captured for quite some time. I have better use for my money than watching drag shows within plays, plus I detest mixed sex bathrooms. No terfs? Well fuck you too. As if I want to be near this shit. No TRAs in my domain.

I'm glad I got to visit Broadway before this shit colonized it.

I'm honestly surprised the Harry Potter show didn't open with the cast getting on stage, railing about what a b!tch Rowling is, and raising funds to send to Mermaids or Trans Lifeline or whatever. But I guess even they realized how hypocritical it would look to whine about Rowling being Hitler while they made money off her creation.

They can do whatever gender bullshit they want but they are all making $ for JKR. And it’ll be interesting to see how this TIM gimmick affects gross. I’m guessing it’ll drop off reeeeal fast. That’s a lot of money to spend for the expected headliner to be such obvious gimmicky casting of someone with little experience

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