So, I've been thinking about this for a while. I'm not white, but also not black myself so I want to let black women speak about it in the comments. I see many women here talking about womanface, but I've never seen an actual GC black person's take on it.
I think part of the reason why 'womanface' is seen as acceptable is due to how normalised misogyny is in the fabric of society. So much so that no-one really bats an eye, but the second you replace 'women' by another group, people are far more likely to take offense. In the mind of many, 'being degraded/humiliated/violated' is associated with womanness (see 'forced feminisation') much more so than the idea of individual personhood. As 'non-people' we're just supposed to accept this treatment.
I think part of the reason why 'womanface' is seen as acceptable is due to how normalised misogyny is in the fabric of society. So much so that no-one really bats an eye, but the second you replace 'women' by another group, people are far more likely to take offense. In the mind of many, 'being degraded/humiliated/violated' is associated with womanness (see 'forced feminisation') much more so than the idea of individual personhood. As 'non-people' we're just supposed to accept this treatment.
Grayson Perry said that he dressed as little bow peep because little girls are the most sexually humiliating thing there is, and humiliation is intrinsic to sexual satisfaction.
Yes being degraded, humiliated, violated is what is seen as intrinsic to women, but also that mens entitlement to our degradation is seen as intrinsic to being a man. It’s two fold, which creates a more effective lock in the trap.
Grayson Perry said that he dressed as little bow peep because little girls are the most sexually humiliating thing there is, and humiliation is intrinsic to sexual satisfaction.
Yes being degraded, humiliated, violated is what is seen as intrinsic to women, but also that mens entitlement to our degradation is seen as intrinsic to being a man. It’s two fold, which creates a more effective lock in the trap.
WHAT???? What is the logic behind that statement? Little girls are the most sexually humiliating things there is? That makes absolutely no sense...
WHAT???? What is the logic behind that statement? Little girls are the most sexually humiliating things there is? That makes absolutely no sense...
Welp, that's one for my ever growing list of 'People I don't feel like looking into'.
And yes you're right, the idea of having agency being associated to manhood makes it even worse.
Welp, that's one for my ever growing list of 'People I don't feel like looking into'.
And yes you're right, the idea of having agency being associated to manhood makes it even worse.
I would really love to see a video with side-by-side footage of Al Jolson and Dylan Mulvaney.
I would really love to see a video with side-by-side footage of Al Jolson and Dylan Mulvaney.
I have seen people try to say it's not similar to blackface because gay men are also an oppressed class, as if gay men can't be misogynists just because they're gay.
People actually say this?
That's like saying gay men can't be racist because they're an oppressed class. Which no one on the left says.
I guess what those people really mean is that they don't believe women are an oppressed class.
>I have seen people try to say it's not similar to blackface because gay men are also an oppressed class, as if gay men can't be misogynists just because they're gay.
People actually say this?
That's like saying gay men can't be racist because they're an oppressed class. Which no one on the left says.
I guess what those people really mean is that they don't believe women are an oppressed class.
The whole mocking of black people for enjoying chicken and watermelon has always been weird to me. Like what, do white people generally dislike those things? Wasn't Colonel Sanders a white man? Am I missing something here because last I checked both of those foods are delicious. I'm suddenly reminded of Dave Chapelle's "All these years I thought I like chicken 'cause it was delicious... turns out, I was genetically predisposed to liking chicken!" I am aware of the pickininny stereotype for the watermelon but it isn't like southern white kids don't sit outside and eat it too.
The whole mocking of black people for enjoying chicken and watermelon has always been weird to me. Like what, do white people generally dislike those things? Wasn't Colonel Sanders a white man? Am I missing something here because last I checked both of those foods are delicious. I'm suddenly reminded of Dave Chapelle's *"All these years I thought I like chicken 'cause it was delicious... turns out, I was genetically predisposed to liking chicken!"* I am aware of the pickininny stereotype for the watermelon but it isn't like southern white kids don't sit outside and eat it too.
This Jim Crow was a nationwide thing post Slavery.
Cotton brokers on Wall Street would evolve into stock brokers.
Slavery was the Big Bang of the American Capitalism systems
This Jim Crow was a nationwide thing post Slavery.
Cotton brokers on Wall Street would evolve into stock brokers.
Slavery was the Big Bang of the American Capitalism systems
Blackface, minstrel shows and newspaper cartoons inspired lynching, race riots and the rapes of Black women and the wholesale destruction of Black neighborhoods and townships.
Have Drag Shows inspired the same kind of violence used against White women.
That's why they should use it.
Blackface, minstrel shows and newspaper cartoons inspired lynching, race riots and the rapes of Black women and the wholesale destruction of Black neighborhoods and townships.
Have Drag Shows inspired the same kind of violence used against White women.
That's why they should use it.
Blackface and minstrel shows inspired lynching, etc.? I could see maybe if a cartoon was inflammatory, but those other two?
Also, there's a difference between drag queens and TIMs. (A TIM can be both TIM and drag queen now, apparently, but those are still two different things.)
Blackface and minstrel shows inspired lynching, etc.? I could see maybe if a cartoon was inflammatory, but those other two?
Also, there's a difference between drag queens and TIMs. (A TIM can be both TIM and drag queen now, apparently, but those are still two different things.)
The cartoons were images of the 7 stereotypes of the minstrel shows. Postcards were made from pictures of lynching and distributed to friends and family members.
The cartoons were images of the 7 stereotypes of the minstrel shows. Postcards were made from pictures of lynching and distributed to friends and family members.
Except Blackface Minstrel shows were meant to be anti Black propaganda to continue the degradation and Sub human treatment of American Black people.
It inspired lynching, the stereotype we were all dumb so menial work was all we were worth, whole destructions of Black neighborhoods and townships and the rapes of Black women and girls.
Have Drag Shows had the same inspiration for violence and rape of White women?
Except Blackface Minstrel shows were meant to be anti Black propaganda to continue the degradation and Sub human treatment of American Black people.
It inspired lynching, the stereotype we were all dumb so menial work was all we were worth, whole destructions of Black neighborhoods and townships and the rapes of Black women and girls.
Have Drag Shows had the same inspiration for violence and rape of White women?
They're different in many ways, but so is something like blackface and theatrical caricatures of Asian people.
What they do all have in common is it being someone who does not belong to a specific oppressed class wearing it as a costume.
Though I would argue that the "dumb bimbo" characterization is something that drag and anti-woman propaganda has in common. I've met so many sexist gay men who are obviously influenced by drag culture. Which contributes to the dehumanization of women.
Idk why you're saying white women either, womanface can be done of any race of woman.
They're different in many ways, but so is something like blackface and theatrical caricatures of Asian people.
What they do all have in common is it being someone who does not belong to a specific oppressed class wearing it as a costume.
Though I would argue that the "dumb bimbo" characterization is something that drag and anti-woman propaganda has in common. I've met so many sexist gay men who are obviously influenced by drag culture. Which contributes to the dehumanization of women.
Idk why you're saying white women either, womanface can be done of any race of woman.
One group was brought from Africa in slave ships in three levels with 18 inches tall spaces chained to each other, surrounded by fecal matter and urine for 23 hours. And the one hour that they were given was used to rape women and girls, and beat anyone who spoke their language. With the next 400 years of an established relationship with White people. With continued violence and targeted economic policies including redlining of our neighborhoods. That are currently food and opportunity deserts.
Asian people came over as immigrants and had their Cultures intact.
These are in no way the same.
One group was brought from Africa in slave ships in three levels with 18 inches tall spaces chained to each other, surrounded by fecal matter and urine for 23 hours. And the one hour that they were given was used to rape women and girls, and beat anyone who spoke their language. With the next 400 years of an established relationship with White people. With continued violence and targeted economic policies including redlining of our neighborhoods. That are currently food and opportunity deserts.
Asian people came over as immigrants and had their Cultures intact.
These are in no way the same.
If you look at the connection between the porn industry, porn culture etc and drag, i think there is an argument for the inspiration of violence and rape of all women there.
If you look at the connection between the porn industry, porn culture etc and drag, i think there is an argument for the inspiration of violence and rape of all women there.
And woman face is used to describe TiMs all the time.
They’ve removed women’s legal rights protections, children’s safeguards in many countries. Plenty very violent attacks and obviously a large scale organised attack on women as a group. How many women are cowering in fear, their mh and well-being destroyed by this attack world over? How many of our girls had their lives destroyed like Keira?
Enough death and rape threats to paper JKRs mansion, KS ran out of her career by burning effigies, women lost their jobs, freedom of speech, harassment from police if they say very moderate true thing about this: Jenni Swayne harassed by police and sent home alone at 3am on her scooter with no phone, a disabled woman bullied and isolated just because of pro women stickers. How many women lots their jobs, or raped by TiMs in schools prisons etc. how many girls sterilised. How long did women fight for rights and they are disappeared in a swift language game.
Womanface isn’t just used towards drag, it’s TiMs and all the pushing force behind gender ideology.
But unless women are lynched our experience isn’t valid. Must always defer to every other group that has it worse. Female socialisation in action.
And woman face is used to describe TiMs all the time.
They’ve removed women’s legal rights protections, children’s safeguards in many countries. Plenty very violent attacks and obviously a large scale organised attack on women as a group. How many women are cowering in fear, their mh and well-being destroyed by this attack world over? How many of our girls had their lives destroyed like Keira?
Enough death and rape threats to paper JKRs mansion, KS ran out of her career by burning effigies, women lost their jobs, freedom of speech, harassment from police if they say very moderate true thing about this: Jenni Swayne harassed by police and sent home alone at 3am on her scooter with no phone, a disabled woman bullied and isolated just because of pro women stickers. How many women lots their jobs, or raped by TiMs in schools prisons etc. how many girls sterilised. How long did women fight for rights and they are disappeared in a swift language game.
Womanface isn’t just used towards drag, it’s TiMs and all the pushing force behind gender ideology.
But unless women are lynched our experience isn’t valid. Must always defer to every other group that has it worse. Female socialisation in action.
But that's not what we are talking about.
Porn, obviously. But not Drag Shows!
And that's the point.
But that's not what we are talking about.
Porn, obviously. But not Drag Shows!
And that's the point.
I'm a black woman and I do believe that blackface and "womanface" are similar. They are both caricatures of an oppressed minority by the privileged majority. Seeing a man dressed as a woman and leaning into negative stereotypes of women (cattiness, vanity, etc.) is no different than seeing a white person painting their face black and leaning into negative stereotypes of black people (lazy, eating fried chicken, etc.). Womanhood is not a costume that men should be able to wear for a couple of hours, be celebrated for, and then take it off and go back to their normal male lives. Just like blackness (or any other race), is not something you just get to wear because you think it's cool and then take it off when it's time to go back to "real life".
I have seen people try to say it's not similar to blackface because gay men are also an oppressed class, as if gay men can't be misogynists just because they're gay. A gay man is a man, first and foremost. The fact that all these supposedly "woke" folks know that blackface is wrong yet fail to see how drag/womanface is extremely similar is ridiculous. It shows a lack of understanding why blackface is wrong. Then again, these are the same people who think identifying as transgender is valid, but identifying as transracial is somehow not when they're essentially the same thing.