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So apparently there was a "male feminist" that said this in the 70s or 80s who unsurprisingly became an MRA after getting kicked out of NOW for writing incest apologia. I tried pointing out how ridiculous and misogynistic this was on askfeminist was, only to be told I didn't sympathize with men enough. But I can rant about it on here! I find it fascinating how no one hear this and not roll their eyes. If being a success object is just so horrible and the same thing as being a sex object, then why do both men and women tend to want to be seen as successful? Successful people are usually treated WAY better then people seen as not successful. In fact, people can be damn abusive to people they see as slackers, or not ambitious enough. Sure being successful can mean more stress; but it also brings so many benefits. There is literally no benefit to being seen as a sex object...None. In fact being treated as one can put your life in danger. I am so tired of hearing men say how luck women are, because all they need in life is too be pretty, while men(those poor dears) are just so burdened by people having expectations on them! If men really where serious about hating being seen as providers and protectors...then they would embrace feminism fully, and encourage women to also be successful.

So apparently there was a "male feminist" that said this in the 70s or 80s who unsurprisingly became an MRA after getting kicked out of NOW for writing incest apologia. I tried pointing out how ridiculous and misogynistic this was on askfeminist was, only to be told I didn't sympathize with men enough. But I can rant about it on here! I find it fascinating how no one hear this and not roll their eyes. If being a success object is just so horrible and the same thing as being a sex object, then why do both men and women tend to want to be seen as successful? Successful people are usually treated WAY better then people seen as not successful. In fact, people can be damn abusive to people they see as slackers, or not ambitious enough. Sure being successful can mean more stress; but it also brings so many benefits. There is literally no benefit to being seen as a sex object...None. In fact being treated as one can put your life in danger. I am so tired of hearing men say how luck women are, because all they need in life is too be pretty, while men(those poor dears) are just so burdened by people having expectations on them! If men really where serious about hating being seen as providers and protectors...then they would embrace feminism fully, and encourage women to also be successful.

51 comments

[–] MyBodyMyself 26 points (+26|-0) Edited

There is literally no benefit to being seen as a sex object...None. In fact being treated as one can put your life in danger.

I’m with you on this!

And I also think that’s a terrible way to view women... I understand that’s probably how misogynistic men see women and as far as I’m concerned anyone who sees women as only sex objects and not as full human beings who can also be successful can fuck all the way off!

There are loads and loads of strong, successful women — going back centuries and going back generations! I’m not going to allow daft gender-bread idiocy and their embracing loads of sexist stereotypes change my mind. Women kick ass and are genuine badasses. Yea — I know men are stronger in terms of muscular strength and that’s why it genuinely sucks for them to crash women’s sporting events. But women aren’t some genetically inferior subspecies. We are more powerful and stronger than all the anti-scientific and misogynistic bilge TRA’s have been pushing. Where opportunities do not exist yet — we need to just stand up and make them! I’m not going to let the bastards get me down anymore!

One very telling thing is MRAs of all forms will say shit like, they respect sex workers, because sex workers are literally the only honest women that exist. Of course instead of finding this insulting, sex workers think that MRAS are so awesome. They also think trailblazing and successful women are nothing more then exceptions, and women should just stick to their roles of either being the Madonna or the Whore. I feel like a lot of people get shamed by pointing out things about men that aren't so pretty; that maybe women are better at. For instance, lately I really have been noticing that in many ways men are way more arrogant then women are. I am also starting to really get angry at people think men acting stupid is awesome and hilarious, and women not laughing at this are just being killjoys. For instance, I absolutely HATE the Three Stooges, and and men think that means you have no sense of humor.

[–] MyBodyMyself 3 points (+3|-0)

I’ve noticed a lot of what you’re saying here and I also notice how women’s successes in particular fields — especially for leadership roles or in the financial sector — is largely ignored as a fluke when there are tons and tons of women who excel at this...

I agree about male arrogance — I feel that’s a natural result of being told you’re superior and the fallout from patriarchy... when one group holds money, power and makes most of the laws — is little wonder that they develop a superiority complex... not all of them — but many of them!

I’ve never liked Three Stooges either... prat falls and juvenile behavior... I’m far more likely to go for the Marx Brothers — but even they were fairly misogynistic at times...

I have noticed that it tends to be fields like medical, psychology, and biology that women excel at quite a bit....of course misogynists dismiss this as easy subjects. And women that exceed in physics, astronomy, chemistry are only there because of affirmative action. I do agree about the being raised to believe that they are superior, I have a theory that is why incels exist too....instead of recognizing they AREN'T superior and have been lied too, they lash out on successful women for somehow emasculating them.

Abbott and Costello where pretty funny too! I think I like slapstick if it is mixed with wit....When it is JUST slapstick though, I think it is stupid. I also loath Jackass.

[–] A_Matriarch 3 points (+3|-0)

Please work with me on recruiting builders for woman centered socio economic infrastructure... I am based in NYC , you don’t have to live here to help but there will be a training and orientation pipeline. It’s not ready her but can I reach out to you when it is?

When Vaccines get more readily available and things get back to normal, I am going to join the women's division of Habitat for Humanity.

[–] TheExorcistofLies 19 points (+19|-0)

Chauvinists love to gobble up all the success, status, money and power and turn to women like “it’s just SO HARD running the whole world, trust us. You just don’t worry your pretty head and focus on the home! It’s waaay better!”

Men who say this are largely trying to con women into accepting less. They know that success is a ticket to comfort and independence, to social and literal capital. Barring maybe a small percentage of failsons in their moms’ basements that might feel put-upon by having to be successful.

it just just like when feminists fought for the right to vote, men where outraged*. And of course there where moronic women, that where like poor men, I am fine not being able to vote! Too many men just want to hog everything for themselves. *yes, yes, there where men that fought for women's suffrage. Ugh, I think I still have an inner libfem.

[–] Womancup 17 points (+17|-0)

Men are not seen as success objects. They're seen as success subjects

Oh asolutley....if Farrell would have said this he would have been right on the money. But, sense he was a fake feminist, who wanted to pretend that feminists where just so mean, he wrote books about how it was women that have the power....because they oppressed men with their looks.

[–] Amareldys 4 points (+4|-0)

Tell us more!

[–] Womancup 5 points (+5|-0)

Women are sexual objects to be looked at and acted upon. Men are subjects in charge of their own destiny and they can determine their own success with their actions.

[–] MeNsTrUaToR27 9 points (+9|-0)

Oh Warren Farrell. Hes horrible.

Oh, him. Futrelle used to mock him on Manboobz.

[–] MeNsTrUaToR27 3 points (+3|-0)

Ugh the good old days before he got on the TERF hate bandwagon

What annoyed me was at first he would stick up for himself and his site and would tell them to leave; then suddenly he turned around and started hating on TERFS. There were a few cool trans commenters in the beginning, but then the ones from Femineste started coming on and talking about how everything was transphobic and we should all die in a fire.

I can't find the link anymore, but their was this lawyer that was exposing MRAs for what they where and she had a bunch of dirt of Farrell. Apparently, he was always calling his ex constantly and leaving sobbing messages for their young son telling him how sorry he was that his mom was tearing them apart. It was seriously creepy.

Do I think that there are some mothers that are horrible, and fathers that are good? Yes, Ihave seen it. However none of them are MRAS. They are called the abusers lobby for good reason.

[–] Tokenmom 7 points (+7|-0)

What does being a success object even mean? Also, men turn every damn thing into a pissing competition. You're not a fan unless you're the most fanatical fan; you're not a collector unless you collect all the things. Of you go into business you have to make all the money. The patriarchy creates the definition of success. And then they want to complain about being success objects? 😂 They made their beds, they can sleep in them.

Boo hoo!!!! Women get by by just being pretty and being arm candy! Us men actually have to WORK, something you women no nothing about because you sit on the couch eating bon bons! Married with Children is based on reality!

[–] Barfbin 7 points (+7|-0)

If he said women are sex objects and men are success subjects he would have been closer to the truth.

[–] Amareldys 7 points (+7|-0)

For all people talk about billionaires marrying hot waitresses, people usually marry within their social class. Wealthy men also want women who will help them get wealthier and stay wealthy.

Donald Trump is a poor man's idea how a rich man acts....most rich men do not have trophy wives.

Bill Gates has been married a really long time to a computer scientist who helped manage his company.

Steve Jobs married a business woman who---drum roll please---helped him with his company.

Jeff Bezos ex was highly educated and a novelist

ok...I am bored with looking up rich men and their wives....but this whole women marry for money and men marry for looks is absolute bunk.

[–] somegenerichandle 5 points (+5|-0) Edited

I've never heard this 'success object' rhetoric before. I don't get it. Success is something you work for, not something that happens to you. I've heard them gripe about too high of expectations, and told them that I'd prefer it to too low of expectations.

Also success doesn't mean rich---if someone is a fire fighter with a stable job and income, they are considered successful. Another thing I am sick of hearing is how oppressed blue collar workers are when they actually make quite a bit of money. Sure there are some that are in bad situations now because of automation and their jobs going oversees...but that is capitalism, not being oppressed by women.

"boo hoo men are always expected to do well in their careers and earn lots of money and power, it's so hard for us" -- this is in no way comparable to the discrimination and violence women face simply for being born female. Big deal, people think you should rake in lots of cash, but if you don't, there's no real repercussions for you. At least men are always seen as capable of doing great things and the only reason they don't is because they don't use their potential or whatever, whereas women are literally deemed less capable and unfit for leadership by default. The encouragement to succeed can feel like pressure, sure, but it's still a more positive and benevolent form of pressure instead of the literal punishments women receive for stepping out of line. The only negative aspect to not being an "alpha" male is missing out on fancy gatherings, sports cars and maybe attention from women who are out to get themselves a wealthy man. Men typically think not having dozens of hot women waiting in line to sleep with them is literal oppression. 🙄

Seriously, I have never met anyone that thinks men have to be CEOS, or big shot doctors. People think men that have stable jobs are successful. Honestly, it is usually NEETS and other assorted underachieving men that complain about being expected to work---when everyone is expected to work.

True dat. What they mean by "people expect me to be super successful!!!" is that some people, usually those who are successful themselves, only associate with highly successful people. Some of the best jobs are only offered to overachievers, some of the women those men are interested in only go for high-status men, public recognition is mostly only awarded to successful people. They basically complain they aren't famous and beloved by all unless they are truly exceptional -- which applies to everyone. So many people are mediocre and "normal", that's just life. Men are their own problem if they think they have always be and have the best of everything because they're not willing to settle for less. Yes, I do think the way society (aka patriarchy) measures success and the skills and personalities it values are severely messed up, but most normal men are not missing out on much if they're not "alpha". The thing is they want more, but they also feel entitled to it. In their minds, it's their human right to have a nice house, car and hot wife who cleans up after them and meets their every sexual demand.

It kind of bothers me too sometimes when people overly praise super successful people, then I tell myself I do the same thing----it IS awesome when you see people achieve things. People also DO reward other work as well, and sometimes people that are successful feel very alienated from people, more then say a mechanic, teacher or nurse would. I am happy that I used to work with cars and am now going to be an x ray tech---the world would be a better place if people would be happy with who they are.

[–] jelliknight 1 points (+1|-0)

It doesn't even make sense as a phrase. An object can't be successful. Success requires agency and action.

One of my peak libfems was being told that I I was being sociopathic, because women expecting men to be successful is horrible. Um......no, expecting people to actually pull their weight is completely normal. Despite what red pillers say, most men want to date a woman that works, or at least wants to take care of the kids and house--which is also work. No one wants to date a lazy bum.

[–] jelliknight 0 points (+0|-0)

Yep. Even those "trophy wives" are expected to throw themed parties and organise shit. no one wants a life partner who's just dead weight.

Apparently some people think Married.....with Children is a documentary of the married man.