23

I’m very much of the mind that I want to mind my own business and be left alone.

I might be interested in the human behavior aspects, but I only really feel the need to get involved if it effects me, or harms others.

So gender affirming care is tricky. Do I let them at it and just mind my own business? Or do they need to be protected from themselves bc they’re sick? I don’t know. Especially since the APA changed it’s mind about people absolutely obsessing over gender and mutilating themselves being a disorder in the DSM-5.

But the arguments from the transgender community themselves seem to be giving me most of my reasons to vote against it.

Are transwomen women? Yes. Apparently, there’s no difference between men and women.

Is it fair for transwomen to play against biological women in sports? Yes. Apparently, puberty blockers make absolutely no difference as long as the transwoman has been taking hormones for a few months prior to playing.

Do minors need gender affirming care, like puberty blockers and surgery? Yes. Bc men and women are so different, and puberty blockers will make all the difference in the world so they can appear more biological women like when they’re older.

So which is it? The same people argue the same contradictions. The claims change based on when it suits them.

So which are we supposed to believe? It can’t be all three at the same time.

These same people are trying to cancel biology being taught in schools… How can that be of sound mind?

I’m very much of the mind that I want to mind my own business and be left alone. I might be interested in the human behavior aspects, but I only really feel the need to get involved if it effects me, or harms others. So gender affirming care is tricky. Do I let them at it and just mind my own business? Or do they need to be protected from themselves bc they’re sick? I don’t know. Especially since the APA changed it’s mind about people absolutely obsessing over gender and mutilating themselves being a disorder in the DSM-5. But the arguments from the transgender community themselves seem to be giving me most of my reasons to vote against it. Are transwomen women? Yes. Apparently, there’s no difference between men and women. Is it fair for transwomen to play against biological women in sports? Yes. Apparently, puberty blockers make absolutely no difference as long as the transwoman has been taking hormones for a few months prior to playing. Do minors need gender affirming care, like puberty blockers and surgery? Yes. Bc men and women are so different, and puberty blockers will make all the difference in the world so they can appear more biological women like when they’re older. So which is it? The same people argue the same contradictions. The claims change based on when it suits them. So which are we supposed to believe? It can’t be all three at the same time. These same people are trying to cancel biology being taught in schools… How can that be of sound mind?

21 comments

So gender affirming care is tricky. Do I let them at it and just mind my own business? Or do they need to be protected from themselves bc they’re sick? I don’t know.

The way I viewed it is: If I was alive in the 1930’s-1950’s when the lobotomy was widespread, would I have spoken out? Yes I would.

If I was alive in the late 1800’s to 1940’s during the US eugenics movement where they were sterilizing the depressed, mildly mentally ill, severely mentally ill, black, gay, pretty much anyone deemed to have undesirable genetic traits, would I have spoken out? Fuck yes I would.

I would speak out because I can’t turn my back on vulnerable people getting taken advantage of and being hurt. Can you imagine what type of world we would live in if people throughout history just dusted their hands off and said “well, it’s none of my business”? When our fellow human beings are being hurt, or animals, or the earth, it’s ALL of our business.

Transgender ideology is a modern day eugenics movement. They are sterilizing and preforming risky and unnecessary medical experiments on gay, autistic, gender nonconforming, and mentally ill children and adults. Gender ideology is also eroding the rights and safety of women and girls, and is eroding the rights of lesbians and gay men to be same sex attracted. It’s atrocious and negatively affects so many people, not just those undergoing so called “gender affirming care.”

Gender affirming care is bad medical care full stop. No one should be affirming a belief of a client. It is true or not true. Imagine having race affirming care or species affirming care or age affirming care. It makes no sense.

Good medical care, including psychological care, means that the client needs to understand the facts and realities of the situation. (Or their caregiver does when the client is incompetent).

[–] DurableBook 8 points Edited

Also, evidence-based medicine requires that a treatment be demonstrated to, you know, work.

You first must define what exactly you are treating. You must explain at least some plausible mechanism by which the treatment will address the problem in question. You must lay out the criteria by which it will be possible to measure efficacy of the treatment. And you must then use those criteria to establish that your treatment produces the effects that you said it would.

"Gender affirming care" ticks literally not a single one of these boxes.

They can't even define what they are treating, let alone how cosmetic body modification is supposed to actually treat...what??!?! A boy-soul being born in a girl-body by mistake? That's Cartesian mind-body dualism, not a medical condition.

All they have is that some people really, really hate their bodies and therefore we should affirm their self-hatred and help them get cosmetic surgery until they're satisfied. And they have studies showing that if people who spend years fixating on getting plastic surgery are given plastic surgery, they tend to report being happy about the plastic surgery for like as long as 1-2 years after the surgery! Most of them even go on to get MORE plastic surgery! Checkmate, feminists!

Oli London basically underwent race affirming care when he transitioned to being Korean (a Korean woman eventually). Now he's found Jesus and has detransitioned. The list of his surgeries is terrifying in itself:

https://archive.ph/xpMD6

I am of a similar mind. Children cannot consent to mutilation and sterilisation, but if an adult decides that's what they want, perhaps they should be allowed to have it.

And yet

The American professor of medical ethics whose name I can't remember made the very good point that if doctors were mutilating any other part of the body at the patient's request - removing a leg, or their eyeballs, for instance - they'd be struck off. Young women are routinely denied hysterectomies to treat their endometriosis, yet tell a doctor that you think you're trans and they'll whip that womb out for you in no time.

Why? What makes it okay to mutilate our sexual organs but not any other part of our bodies? We even celebrate this mutilation - why?

[–] hmimperialtortie AGP = evil 14 points

On top of all the arguments well laid out here, this “care” is not only affecting the patients. It is part of a rabidly anti-woman, predatory movement that caters to paedophiles. Hell, it was started by them (Money, Foucault).

It is harmful to their bodies.

If someone is suicidal, we should not support their desire to kill themselves.

If someone believes their leg is trying to kill them, we should not support their desire to chop off their leg.

Any compassion we have should be directed to treating and alleviating their illness, not enabling it and encouraging the self-harm.

Rejecting "gender affirming" treatment is the only compassionate path.

It's not gender affirming, if it was it would be therapy to work through the issues that led them to that point. To not feel like there's something wrong with their bodies. What it is, is Big Pharma cashing in on mental illness and transhumanism continuing to destroy our perceptions of our bodies just to sell the "solution" back to us. Not mentioning the procedures themselves are akin to butchery and absolutely harmful. Any doctor performing these procedures is absolutely removed from empathy and humanity. For the record I consider how twisted plastic surgery has become to also be fucked up. The things they do to people and everyone treats it as normal is dystopian.

Big Pharma is always looking for the next big market. Prescription painkillers are now far more tightly regulated. Vaccines aren't money-spinners after the first big rush of investment. Trans medical care is, so to say, just what the doctor ordered: expensive surgeries to begin with, then life-long medicalisation, in constant need of balancing and fine-tuning. Detransitioners need health care too!

Not only big pharma, these surgeries and appointments are very expensive. Large procedures make a lot of bank. In many cases, both top and bottom surgery.

Just in the US, cosmetic surgery is a multi billion dollar industry, and the cosmetic surgeries that trans identifying people are getting require multiple revisions and cause life long medical complications in addition to the life long medical complications caused by puberty blockers and synthetic cross sex hormones in massive doses that their bodies are not equipped to handle. They’re a cash cow for the entire medical industrial complex.

[–] Nediljka_Orwell PITA crone 6 points

It’d be great if you could just “mind your own business” and take a libertarian view on the whole thing. But the trans craze is everyone’s business. No corner of human society is safe from it’s poison.

Every time a TiP gets hormones and surgery they’re being given permission and aid to live a lie. And the fight now is over whether they get special privileges for that lie, and whether people who refuse going along with the lie should be forced to. They shouldn’t. On both counts. We all need to agree on what is real and important, (sex and honesty) in order for human society to work reasonably well. If that means someone doesn’t get their glitter dusted pony, well, too bad. That’s life. Not everyone gets a pony.

I agree, they push to it the point where it's impossible to just mind your own business anymore.

The whole premise is based on forcing validation from others. Now they're taking away our scholarships, "representing" us, and so on.

For adults in the USA we legally permit a lot of surgical body modification which can also be harmful. There was a guy who had tusks implanted, along with horns, split tongue & tattooed his entire body so he could look like an "orc"- a fictional being. And some surgeon did it. As long as extremes like that sort of surgery is legal, it would be hard to ban trans surgery. For adults. Maybe, hopefully, hold the line to prevent it for minors. Meanwhile, people who need dental surgery or care, or hearing aids, which do effect health, often can't get it paid for as it's considered elective.

Speaking about the US here.

I doubt the government should be involved in directly legislating medical “care” for adults in this case. It should probably be up to the various medical governing bodies. They are dropping the ball right now and harming many, and I think this will only be rectified, eventually, via lawsuits.

However, the government absolutely should not be requiring or paying for these unproven treatments. And it may be necessary to legislate against the medicalization of minors for their protection.

I doubt the government should be involved in directly legislating medical “care” for adults in this case

I agree that the government should not directly dictate medical "care" for adults in most/many cases. But the US federal and state governments through federal agencies such as HHS, FDA, CDC, Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, Department of Defense, ACA, and of course the NIH and all the state agencies that regulate hospitals and doctors are very involved in setting the standards for medical care for adults.

The USA's NIH is one of the major culprits behind the development of the gender medicine industry because NIH is the world's single biggest funder of medical research - and NIH has greenlit and funded tons of dodgy studies and practices. NIH is a major funder and promoter "pediatric gender medicine."

Great points. I admit I’m not that well educated in this space and was speaking more in generalities. I’d definitely say these institutions should be reigned in. It’s unclear to me how that can happen though. :/ Seems like our entire medical system here is just a wealth transfer from taxpayers to private corporations.

I think that finding and releasing the profits that they make off of these people is one way. These are not cheap procedures. A gender affirming doctor stands to make a huge amount of money.

I can easily see why there’s so many pissed off people in the UK, having to pay taxes for the NHS to cover these cosmetic procedures, while women don’t get to have asymmetrical breasts fixed, or new breasts if they had cancer, laser hair removal if they have PCOS, etc. But male-women get to get it all for free on their dime.

Even aside from all the internal contradictions...it's just cosmetic surgery. I don't support the existence of cosmetic surgeries because it's an inherently predatory industry. And in what way is it ethically right for resources to be spent giving people bigger butts and smaller waists and smoother faces when there are so many people who cannot access basic, necessary healthcare?