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After the Club Q shooter was revealed to be nonbinary, the usual suspects on TIM activist twitter have been screeching about it all day, and it's SO fucking incredible to watch how their desperate arguments are immediately negated by their OWN ideology.

"Why would a trans person attack a queer bar?" Why do so many transwomen kill women, then, if being part of a group should automatically include not killing people of that same group?

"He's just identifying as NB for less serious charges!" Oh but I thought that it was impossible and "never happens" that anyone would identify as trans for a lighter sentence. Don't y'all argue that trans people are MORE persecuted in law? Why would NB grant him privilege if you don't admit that trans people are a protected caste?

"It's suspicious that this only came out after the shooting!" But we're not allowed to question the hundreds of transwomen who miraculously discover their gender identity after being charged with crimes?

"He was identifying as a man two years ago!" And Dylan Mulvaney was a man 200 years ago. Does that mean he's not valid?

And all of their arguments can simply be shut down by their own beloved mantra: "trans people are who they say they are."

We're only following the rules YOU have set out. In accordance with your ideology his gender identity must be respected no matter his crime, misgendering him is just as bad as the crime, and his self identity is 100% valid regardless of literally anything.

The schadenfreude watching them have to face the inanity and illogic of their own ideology is delicious.

After the Club Q shooter was revealed to be nonbinary, the usual suspects on TIM activist twitter have been screeching about it all day, and it's SO fucking incredible to watch how their desperate arguments are immediately negated by their OWN ideology. "Why would a trans person attack a queer bar?" Why do so many transwomen kill women, then, if being part of a group should automatically include not killing people of that same group? "He's just identifying as NB for less serious charges!" Oh but I thought that it was impossible and "never happens" that anyone would identify as trans for a lighter sentence. Don't y'all argue that trans people are MORE persecuted in law? Why would NB grant him privilege if you don't admit that trans people are a protected caste? "It's suspicious that this only came out after the shooting!" But we're not allowed to question the hundreds of transwomen who miraculously discover their gender identity after being charged with crimes? "He was identifying as a man two years ago!" And Dylan Mulvaney was a man 200 years ago. Does that mean he's not valid? And all of their arguments can simply be shut down by their own beloved mantra: "trans people are who they say they are." We're only following the rules YOU have set out. In accordance with your ideology his gender identity must be respected no matter his crime, misgendering him is just as bad as the crime, and his self identity is 100% valid regardless of literally anything. The schadenfreude watching them have to face the inanity and illogic of their own ideology is delicious.

80 comments

[–] DonnaFemina 30 points Edited

BULLSHIT ALERT: "As part of their defense, the legal team of the Colorado Springs nightclub shooter has claimed that their defendant is nonbinary. This would avoid them being charged with a hate crime."

Can someone who goes on Reddit please tell them that's not true?

Hate crimes are NOT defined in terms of the killer's race/sexual orientation/religion/etc. They are defined SOLELY in terms of the victim's "actual or perceived religion, national origin, gender, sexual orientation, gender identity, or disability..."

So sayeth federal law: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/249

And Colorado hate-crime legislation is the same: https://www.hmichaelsteinberg.com/understanding-colorados-hate-crimes.html

The perpetrator's group affiliation is irrelevant. You can be LGBT and commit a hate crime against LGBT people. You can be a member of a group and hate members of that group.

And that would be true even if this shooter were a member of exactly the same group as his victims -- which he's not: "Nonbinary" is either the T or the Q in that acronym; it has nothing to do with the L, B or G.

[–] GracieM 6 points Edited

Yes but I’d argue that normally an out group is charged with hate crimes and not in group. I don’t believe I know of a case where (for example) a white person was charged with a “hate crime” for the mass murder of other white people, and substitute in any race you want - I don’t believe it’s happened.

White people aren't a protected class. Don't you have to be a part of a protected class for it to count as a hate crime?

[–] ProxyMusic 7 points Edited

There's no such thing as a protected class of people in law. Just people with protected characteristics. Anti-discrimination law, and hate crime laws, cover everyone who has/is perceived to have a race/ethnicity - including white people.

Hate crimes (also known as bias-motivated crimes) occur when a perpetrator targets a victim because of his or her perceived membership in a certain social group, usually defined by racial group, religion, sexual orientation, disability, class, ethnicity, nationality, age, gender, gender identity, or political affiliation.

“Hate crime” generally refers to criminal acts that are seen to have been motivated by bias against one or more of the types above, or of their derivatives. Incidents may involve physical assault, damage to property, bullying, harassment, verbal abuse or insults, or offensive graffiti or letters (hate mail).

If a criminal targets a person because the criminal perceives him/her to be white, or of a particular white ethnicity, l then the criminal indeed can be charged with a racially/ethnically motivated hate crime.

I was just using white to be non-offensive.

The language on hate crime on the DOJ just says “actual or perceived race, color…etc” I believe any race or color would be covered as long as there was a bias. So if you shot white people just because they were white, no other reason, then yes that would be a hate crime.