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After the Club Q shooter was revealed to be nonbinary, the usual suspects on TIM activist twitter have been screeching about it all day, and it's SO fucking incredible to watch how their desperate arguments are immediately negated by their OWN ideology.

"Why would a trans person attack a queer bar?" Why do so many transwomen kill women, then, if being part of a group should automatically include not killing people of that same group?

"He's just identifying as NB for less serious charges!" Oh but I thought that it was impossible and "never happens" that anyone would identify as trans for a lighter sentence. Don't y'all argue that trans people are MORE persecuted in law? Why would NB grant him privilege if you don't admit that trans people are a protected caste?

"It's suspicious that this only came out after the shooting!" But we're not allowed to question the hundreds of transwomen who miraculously discover their gender identity after being charged with crimes?

"He was identifying as a man two years ago!" And Dylan Mulvaney was a man 200 years ago. Does that mean he's not valid?

And all of their arguments can simply be shut down by their own beloved mantra: "trans people are who they say they are."

We're only following the rules YOU have set out. In accordance with your ideology his gender identity must be respected no matter his crime, misgendering him is just as bad as the crime, and his self identity is 100% valid regardless of literally anything.

The schadenfreude watching them have to face the inanity and illogic of their own ideology is delicious.

After the Club Q shooter was revealed to be nonbinary, the usual suspects on TIM activist twitter have been screeching about it all day, and it's SO fucking incredible to watch how their desperate arguments are immediately negated by their OWN ideology. "Why would a trans person attack a queer bar?" Why do so many transwomen kill women, then, if being part of a group should automatically include not killing people of that same group? "He's just identifying as NB for less serious charges!" Oh but I thought that it was impossible and "never happens" that anyone would identify as trans for a lighter sentence. Don't y'all argue that trans people are MORE persecuted in law? Why would NB grant him privilege if you don't admit that trans people are a protected caste? "It's suspicious that this only came out after the shooting!" But we're not allowed to question the hundreds of transwomen who miraculously discover their gender identity after being charged with crimes? "He was identifying as a man two years ago!" And Dylan Mulvaney was a man 200 years ago. Does that mean he's not valid? And all of their arguments can simply be shut down by their own beloved mantra: "trans people are who they say they are." We're only following the rules YOU have set out. In accordance with your ideology his gender identity must be respected no matter his crime, misgendering him is just as bad as the crime, and his self identity is 100% valid regardless of literally anything. The schadenfreude watching them have to face the inanity and illogic of their own ideology is delicious.

80 comments

[–] Chronicity 72 points Edited

It’s the Ontario shop teacher dilemma all over again.

Take the guy at his word that he’s trans and you’re admitting that the priestly caste contains criminals, perverts, and nutcases who don’t deserve the priestly status your movement demands.

Refuse to take the guy at his word that he’s trans and you’re doing exactly what TERFs do: treating him like any other member of his sex regardless of his expressed identity.

What amazes me is that so many of them cannot see the catch 22 themselves. They are just reacting to the news without thinking any of it through. It’s a reminder that they don’t have the capacity to keep this con going for very long. Developments like this really put a strain on their cognitive defenses; it’s like they are in a progressively worsening immunocompromised state while the world keeps bombarding them with virulent pathogens. Days are numbered.

I've been commenting on reddit how this guy is 'non-binary' and have been getting downvoted for no reason. They don't like having their beliefs challenged. It's like "the only real trans are the ones who don't cause problems for us"

Such hypocritical bs.

I hope you’re right that the days are numbered with this ideology.

[–] vulvapeople 61 points Edited

Why would a trans person attack a queer bar?

A TIM in Canada set fire to a pride flag several years ago. Homophobia is extremely common among TIPs, including the gay ones since they're trying to escape their sex and sexuality.

The arson was investigated as a hate crime until the police discovered a TIM did it.

Their whole ideology is insanely homophobic. They hate the fact that same sex attracted people don’t want them, despite their special gender.

They seem to hate people who are happy with themselves in their natural state... LGB rights are about accepting people for who they are whereas the TQ is all about forcing people to pretend you are something you are not.

So true! TIMs hate me because I'm the demographic they want to be hooking up with (feminine female lesbian) and I obviously won't, and they equally hate my butch wife because "she isn't even trying to look female" and still looks 1,000x more like a woman than they ever will. I had a TIM scream in my face in a lesbian bar one time after telling him I didn't want him to buy me a drink because I was on a date, he flew off the handle about how "you lesbians reject me for looking like a man, and then go and date a woman who looks like a man!" He was really losing his shit, but fortunately this was pre 2015 when TIPs gained immunity from all consequences of their actions, and the bar tender intervened.

[–] Tiramisuomi 9 points Edited

What the fuck is the matter with that clown? What could be more stereotypically male than reacting like that to being told "no thank you, I'm with my partner literally right now"?

That's a legit incel --> trans case, clearly. Bless that bartender. I want to believe it would still happen these days but who knows. Maybe the whole crowd would gather around and chant "cotton ceiling must be breached"

What an absolute freak! That must’ve been horrible.

I’m convinced men are blind/wilfully unobservant, and think makeup/clothes = woman. They see the (often garish) trappings and not the features underneath - hence “butch lesbians look like men” 😐

They hate that women who don’t buy into gender roles are still women, whereas they try so hard and spend every waking moment worrying about “passing”.

Women just existing as women is “transphobic”, since we remind them constantly of what they are not. And lesbians are the worst, because their female only attraction is invalidating to the entitled men 🙄

Wow so fucked up that happened to you! Utterly delusional. I'm actually starting to believe that many of these TIMs really have a Map vs Terrain problem. They mistake the trappings of femininity (trying hard!) for being actually female.

LGB is all about the T these days and it really is sad.

It really is. When I see that ugly flag I feel so angry. The T is in direct conflict with LGB, since it aims to gaslight and bully same SEX attracted people.

[–] Stealthygal 18 points Edited

I do find it interesting that Club Q called itself a gay bar, although it was obviously open to all flavors of the TQ and straight people as well. They knew who their market was.

Isn't it just a bar at that point lol.

Well most gay bars allow straight people in, if they're with gay patrons. At least that's how it was when I was growing up, though the older gay men didn't like us straight girls being there. (Homosexuality was still technically illegal at that time, and I realised later that they just wanted a space of their own where they could feel safe. Of course WE liked going because we could dance and have fun without being hit on by creeps, so, also safe.)

Exactly. If TWAW, why would they work so hard to shut down WOMENS domestic violence shelters??

Apart from that, many mass shooters go after places where they have some kind of connection, perhaps where they know somebody. Think of workplace shooters, or Columbine.

[–] Turtlefuzz Gender Outlaw 🤠 51 points

And Dylan Mulvaney was a man 200 years ago.

I'm sure you meant 200 days but this made me snort so please don't change it.

[–] GCRadFem 39 points

Preddit white people twitter is quite too much. Not uploading but I copied this:

“This is a public service announcement explaining the rules of this subreddit as it comes to the recent Colorado Springs murders and the position of this subreddit on LGBTQ+ people and the propaganda against them.

As part of their defense, the legal team of the Colorado Springs nightclub shooter has claimed that their defendant is nonbinary.

This would avoid them being charged with a hate crime.

The extreme-right has latched on to this news with the jubilant claim that it is not their relentless and vicious demonisation of queer and gender-nonconforming people that is to blame for the rise in violence against them. Instead they claim "the call came from inside the house".

Please be advised that on this subreddit such rhetoric will be met with a permanent and non-appealable ban.

Despite the claims of the extreme-right, it is a fact that endless stochastic terrorism from people like Matt Walsh, Tucker Carlson, Marjorie Taylor-Greene et al. have fostered an atmosphere in the US which has led to a rise in violent threats against non-cishet people.

Their endless lies and hate means that children's hospitals now receive bomb threats for normal, medically and psychiatrically advised care.

It means that normal, fun and age-appropriate events for minors are now threatened by brownshirts.

It means that bills are passed which attempt to illegalise trans people existing in public.

All this and more is the direct result of the endless stochastic terrorism from the extreme-right.

Let's be clear: Say for the sake of argument that the shooter identifies as non-binary. It is then still a fallacious and unacceptable argument to claim that their actions come from an inherent problem inside the LGBTQ+ community.

Instead we know that the murderer comes from an extreme-right family and that their families political connections helped them evade a red-flag gun law.

With their familial and cultural background the shooter will have been exposed to an endless barrage of anti-LGBTQ+ propaganda. It is not reasonable to claim that their identity absolves the extreme-right from its responsibility in this and similar tragedies, when it is their unending stochastic terrorism which fans the flames of hatred 24/7.

Fascism is an inherently empty ideology, devoid of any meaningful belief-system or any kind of concrete and actionable strategies for improving society. Fascism only cares for power for the sake of power and it cares for nothing else.

Because a fascist system is fundamentally incapable of giving the general public any kind of reasonable platform it must gain and keep followers by creating an out-group to hate. According to fascist systems it is the other that is responsible for all societal ills and only by supporting the fascists in getting rid of the other can society be healed from the non-existent issues fascism convinces people that their target minority is the cause of.

Fascism always picks on a vulnerable target.

The demonisation and villification coming from the extreme-right is doing exactly that. By calling LGBTQ+ people child molestors simply for existing it has become inevitable that people will take up violence "to protect the children".

This subreddit will not tolerate such rhetoric.

Not any of it.

Drag is not inherently sexual.

Gender-affirming care is medically and psychiatrically recommended and proven to improve lives.

Trans children often know they are trans when their gender identity develops, around the age of five.

LGBTQ+ people visibly existing is not "grooming" and children knowing about the existence of LGBTQ+ people is not harmful to them.

Being transgender or intersex is a normal and natural variant of the human experience. Being trans is not inherently harmful to either the trans person, nor their surroundings.

This subreddit is a sanctuary space.

Extreme-right rhetoric will be harshly dealt with.

So if you want to sneer at people and claim that it was not the fault of the hateful and dangerous atmosphere created by fascist propaganda that violence against LGBTQ+ people is committed then you can do it elsewhere.

It is not allowed here.

Please help this mod team by reporting fascist rhetoric.”


Delusional to their very core.

[–] DonnaFemina 30 points Edited

BULLSHIT ALERT: "As part of their defense, the legal team of the Colorado Springs nightclub shooter has claimed that their defendant is nonbinary. This would avoid them being charged with a hate crime."

Can someone who goes on Reddit please tell them that's not true?

Hate crimes are NOT defined in terms of the killer's race/sexual orientation/religion/etc. They are defined SOLELY in terms of the victim's "actual or perceived religion, national origin, gender, sexual orientation, gender identity, or disability..."

So sayeth federal law: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/249

And Colorado hate-crime legislation is the same: https://www.hmichaelsteinberg.com/understanding-colorados-hate-crimes.html

The perpetrator's group affiliation is irrelevant. You can be LGBT and commit a hate crime against LGBT people. You can be a member of a group and hate members of that group.

And that would be true even if this shooter were a member of exactly the same group as his victims -- which he's not: "Nonbinary" is either the T or the Q in that acronym; it has nothing to do with the L, B or G.

[–] GracieM 6 points Edited

Yes but I’d argue that normally an out group is charged with hate crimes and not in group. I don’t believe I know of a case where (for example) a white person was charged with a “hate crime” for the mass murder of other white people, and substitute in any race you want - I don’t believe it’s happened.

"Stochastic terrorism"

Can they say that phrase one more time? I'm quite sure they don't know what it means, but its use makes for a good drinking game. I'm almost tipsy from that post and I don't even drink (despite my user name).

I'm saddened they didn't also work in "ontologically evil".

I could hardly read this wall of text because of this thesaurus misuse nonsense.

[–] SlowCollapse 5 points Edited

'Disagreement is nazism/fascism' wasn't working any more, so it's been upgraded to 'Disagreement is TERRORISM, therefore an imminent threat to life'

"random terrorism" as opposed to the targeted kind? What a bunch of drivel lol

As part of their defense, the legal team of the Colorado Springs nightclub shooter has claimed that their defendant is nonbinary. This would avoid them being charged with a hate crime.

This is complete bullshit. The psycho murdered people in cold blood, and he will end up getting a life. The prosecution just needs to provide the evidence for that, not what the loser was thinking.

Yeah, this guy will get a sentence of hundreds or thousands of years. Colorado has a precedent of harsh penalties in mass killings like this. The man convicted in the 2012 Aurora, CO movie theater shooting spree got 12 life sentences to be served consecutively, plus another 3,318 years.

A Colorado judge formally sentenced James Eagan Holmes to multiple life terms plus thousands of years in prison for the Aurora movie theater massacre that killed 12 and wounded 70.

Holmes, a 27-year-old former grad student, received one life term for each person he killed, plus 3,318 years for the attempted murders of those he wounded and for rigging his apartment with explosives. He is not eligible for parole.

https://www.cnn.com/2015/08/26/us/james-holmes-aurora-massacre-sentencing

Probably because they have a pretty bad track record with mass killings in that state for some reason. They seem to have one of these every few years.

vicious demonisation of queer and gender-nonconforming people that is to blame for the rise in violence against them.

Funny, I'm pretty gnc and I haven't noticed an increase in demonization or violence. Well, at least not from the "right".

[–] GCRadFem 15 points

They are stymied by the guy. They were all in on a potential right-wing killer but then they had to reverse direction kinda, because of the attorney stating the guy is non-binary. They don’t know what to say now but really want to keep any potential hint of a right-wing stain front and center.

“ He’s your guy”. “No, he isn’t, he’s yours”. “We don’t want him”.

Yeesh, they’re insane. Let’s hope this is a sign of the gender cult dying off.

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Lol. I can't even, with the hypocrisy. If somebody says their trans....they're trans. Right? Isn't that one of their religious mantras? So a rapist can tell his lawyer he's a transwomen and get sent to a women's prison. A man can declare he's a TIM and get onto a women's sports team, or shelter or hospital ward. What's the difference, people? But go ahead and keep doing mental gymnastics...it's funny.

There is a conversation within the trans community of whether or not the “even if this person did a really bad thing, you still shouldn’t misgender them” line of thought should be taken all the way to applying to the likes of a literal genocidal nazi leader like Hitler, if he were to have identified as trans.

The general consensus is that yes, no how terrible the acts/crimes committed by a person, misgendering is something you do NOT do out of principle alone, if nothing else.

No no, it's different when someone commits a crime; then self-id doesn't matter because only THEN is it about trying to gain an advantage of some kind.

It's only different if the crime is a hate crime against trans. Rapists are still respected

Watching these degenerates being held to the rules of their own incoherent playbook is satisfying. Nobody’s buying their bullshit, either.

The rhetoric in general since Musk took over is hitting a fever pitch. I think we’re witnessing the early parts of an extinction burst. They’ve lost narrative control and they are fucking desperate now.

I’m surprised so many people assume he’s trolling with the “nonbinary” shit, not just TRAs but even women on here.

Why is anyone making that assumption? I think unhinged violent TIMs are far more common than right wing homophobic hate crimes - my default assumption is that he sincerely regards himself as genderspecial.

"So all trans women are women but not all women are trans women. So we are admitting they are different."

This is the best line to reply with anytime TWAW is mentioned. Just ask if they mean all women are Trans!

So simple, yet so effective.

Yeah, whenever a TIM says "no one can ever tell the difference between cis and trans women" I respond "so am I trans then?" and they angrily respond "obviously not!" Guess you can tell then... They can certainly tell who the women are when it comes to their own dating preference, they're not sexually harassing and threatening to rape each other.

They want special treatment, but will eventually have to settle for equality.

Next time will be sure to ask "What are the ways you can tell I'm not trans?"...

Funny how all the commenters talking about the shooter over on Reddit have no problems assuming his pronouns and calling him "he."

I guess the whole "aCsHtUaLlY... THEY use they/them pronouns. I know they're a monster, but if we misgender we're no better than them" song and dance ONLY applies when they target women.

guess the whole "aCsHtUaLlY... THEY use they/them pronouns. I know they're a monster, but if we misgender we're no better than them" song and dance ONLY applies when they target women.

Literally LMAO. Just look how they defended Chris Chan’s supposed identity as a trans lesbian, and would go haywire if you dared to use he/him when it came out that he raped his mother. Now they’re angry that the shooter is being associated with their side.

It's amazing the way they are denying and questioning his nonbinary gender. Which goes against their own sacred ideology. They have no arguments to back it up, it's just their feeling, because non-binary is the most vague ass thing, so it's just "he's not because i know so".

"Why would a trans person attack a queer bar?"

Good question. While we're on the topic, why would they attack and ostracize their own like Blaire White, Buck Angel, and any other trans-identifying person who dares to question the current brand of transideology?

"He's identifying as NB for less serious charges!"

But the woman-beating, kidnapping, groomer Ezra Miller is completely genuine though, right?

"It's suspicious that this only came out after the shooting!"

Right, just like it's suspicious Liam Thomas came out after swimming right in the middle of his collegiate swim career. Seems like he KNEW he only had two more years left he could actually be competitive...

"He was identifying as a man two years ago!"

Again... Liam Thomas

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