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Small rant: My close friend perceived me as a smart person and a thoughtful parent in a difficult parenting situation (3 girls adopted from foster care). When my daughter announced she was non-binary and explained it using incredibly regressive sex based stereotypes and I didn't affirm, I apparently became an unthoughtful and uneducated parent who needed gentle prompts and education to think this through and accept it. It was incredibly painful coming from one of my oldest, closest friends.

Small rant: My close friend perceived me as a smart person and a thoughtful parent in a difficult parenting situation (3 girls adopted from foster care). When my daughter announced she was non-binary and explained it using incredibly regressive sex based stereotypes and I didn't affirm, I apparently became an unthoughtful and uneducated parent who needed gentle prompts and education to think this through and accept it. It was incredibly painful coming from one of my oldest, closest friends.

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My sisters-in-law were surprised and low-key upset that I did not instantly "affirm" their young cousin who announced his nonbinary identity at age 15.

My stance was purely that, well, he's 15. Also he was adopted from a really bad Russian orphanage and has some developmental delays from malnutrition in infancy, also he's on the spectrum, and also he's very obviously gay.

A week after the nonbinary announcement, he announced he was bisexual.

Six months later, he announced he wasn't nonbinary OR bisexual, he was just gay.

I think we all learned something.

[–] bellatrixbells BoobatrixRex 8 points

That sounds good though. Sounds like the boy came to terms with his sexuality and got off the trans train before he was physically damaged! I feel your frustration, but at the end of the day ....good?

It's so condescending and alienating to see that decades of friendship don't matter at all once the trans supremacist indoctrination gets triggered.

I've lost a couple of friendships I had for decades. One was like a sister. I can't be friends with her though since she essentially thinks women in prison should just suck it up. She thinks we should all just suck it up. It's crazy because she had an extremely violent father who tried to kill her mother, ended up in prison and she hasn't spoken to or seen him since (over 30 years).

I don't get why it's fine for men who are smaller or young or disabled or attractive or gay to be physically and sexually assaulted in prison but somehow a beefy 6'3 dude oozing masculinity but wearing a dress must be protected, and specifically by women.

me neither. it's a collective delusion. I will never understand.

Wish you had asked her if women in prison should just suck it up if the TIM was her father.

I did mention him, asking why she would think these were all good men give her experience with her father and her shitty ex- boyfriends, and she didn’t talk to me for months and told me she had to talk about it in therapy and couldn’t believe that I would bring him up.

Actually, I think you mean that "she essentially thinks women in prison should just suck it."

Fixed it for you.

Its bizarre and cult like. People seem to think its the same as homophobia, and it's not.

People are so much more worried about being seen as anti-trans in some way in a way they never were as concerned about being seen as homophobic. Think of how much work had to be done to move the needle on gay issues. It took a mainstream show like Will & Grace to finally make being homosexual (at least for men) seem fairly benign and relatable, and it was still an uphill battle for gay marriage. That's even with a formidable amount of funding behind it.

Trans is something so many people have jumped on board with seemingly out of nowhere. They'll cut off their families, they'll declare any resistance or questioning as the result of pure ignorance...there's something more to all of it that must tap into some lizard part of the human brain, because the patterns are consistent. I remember being fairly defensive of trans issues for years, and it took facing down hundreds of TIMs on every dating app for my brain to finally snap on the issue and face what was happening. My descent into TERFdom took all of maybe a few hours after looking online for answers.

[–] Demeter 11 points Edited

I almost wonder if it's the result of guilt for not being pro-gay earlier. And they want to be on the right side this time. The irony!

It’s because we’re being told doing anything else is cruel. It’s not, but they’ve got a lot of people convicted.

The weird part to me is that they tend to be real fuckin losers. I know quite a few TIM’s IRL and all but one are socially inept, unattractive, unhygienic, self loathing, misogynistic assholes. People we all tend to shun IRL because they’re weird and gross.

Agreed, and I think about these things a lot. It's incredible how so many people have such a visceral and extreme reaction re: trans topics and will cut longtime friends off at the drop of a hat. This isn't something I've typically seen for other issues. So many people are completely unwilling to agree to disagree or "live and let live" about this one topic. It's so strange. People will sit around and make excuses for their sexist or racist or homophobic friends but will end close friendships if one person doesn't perfectly fall in line with the current trans dogma.

You're right that the trajectory for gay rights has been completely different -- it's been much slower, more of an uphill battle, the backlash toward gay/lesbian people has been much bigger, and people didn't care about being seen as anti-gay like they seem to care about not being seen as a perfect trans ally (like you were saying). Gay/lesbian people had our moment in the sun for about five seconds before the T takeover, and now insidious forms of homophobia have really ramped up all in service of the TQ+.

its fear thats all it is, the mob mentality, no one wants to be threatened, doxxed, forced out of work, so they play along in hopes no one will target them and avoid those who don't toe the line like the plague, and its perfectly possible to not know what it is you fear. thats part of the fight or flight response really, to run at the first sense of danger without formulating an understanding of it, its just working on a feeling and not knowing where the feeling comes from.

People are so much more worried about being seen as anti-trans in some way in a way they never were as concerned about being seen as homophobic.

This. It really wasn't too long ago when the polite homophobic response was "I don't approve of their lifestyle". It was upsetting to people who thought differently, and they tried hard to change minds and hearts. But nobody was shamed and flogged in public like they are now.

Helen Joyce has said that the lack of effort to change minds and hearts over time proves that this is not a human/civil rights matter at all. And truer words have never been spoken.

They don’t think it through and when they do they fall prey to social pressure. Most people are weak-minded.

[–] Demeter 7 points Edited

It's as if "appearing" to be a bigot is what really matters. You could prove to them that any sane person would be concerned about the sterilization of young gay people and forcing women to share sales with male sex offenders. It would be ridiculously obvious 10 years ago. If it was 1999 and a time traveler told you of a future where thousands of gay children were being sterilized and women we're forced to share prison cells with male sex offenders and if women spoke up against it they would lose their jobs, their friendships and we're threatened by strangers with murder and sexual violence you'd think the Nazis were back.

[–] shveya 4 points Edited

You’re “unthoughtful” and “need education” for not being regressive and sexist enough? This whole gender fad has taught me more about the way the world sees women than I ever wanted to know.

I find that the most frustrating thing when I have faced it -- when a person doesn't take into account the years that they have seen me do a great job.

At a prior job, I was their best employee. One customer complained (and the customer had schizophrenia as well, it was the reason she was here) and I was deemed untrustworthy and put on probation.

Like the actual accusation stings, but there's something extra cruel about it when the person refuses to give you any credit for anything else.

Does it really make sense that you've been a great parent up until now? That you suddenly stopped deciding to be a great parent?

Or does it make more sense that you are the same parent with the same ability level and traits that you have been this whole time?

[–] bellatrixbells BoobatrixRex 13 points

This 100%. I've been on women rights and gay rights since day one. To have some of those idiots start telling me I was some right wing bigot really just helped me peak.

Like wtf dude, I've defended you tooth and nail against homophobic abuse and you suddenly "don't know" where I stand because I say women have a right to single sex spaces?

Fuck off.

I would even consider rephrasing this in a conversation with your friend, OP: "Does it really make sense that I've been a great parent up until now? That I suddenly stopped deciding to be a great parent?

You are a smart and thoughtful parent because you didn't just keel over and bow down to the gender woo. I hope when your daughter is older she'll thank you for not "affirming" her delusion and internalised misogyny.

Exactly. This is perfectly in keeping with the actions of a smart and thoughtful parent, OP.

I’m sorry your friend is so brainwashed by this BS she is willing to discredit you all of the sudden just because you are making the right, but unpopular, decision for one of your children’s well-being.

That's so frustrating. I wonder if you could call it out directly - something like "I'm an experienced mother and a kind person, something that you have told me for many years. That hasn't changed. I ask for you to trust that I'm making a thoughtful parenting decision, even if it's one you personally disagree with."

My two closest friends (one of whom I can't remember not knowing & I'm in my 50s) are hard core TRAs.

I just don't talk about this with them. They believe one thing and I believe the truth.

[–] Hollyhock 15 points Edited

Same...it's tough. One of them recently said she was surprised I continue to be friends with a Republican girlfriend as I've always been so progressive and on the left (still am, except for gender woo). There's some sad irony with her saying that. I'm still friends w/ her despite her rejection of basic feminist principles!!!

Gender woo is right-wing. The only difference between TRAs and Matt Walsh is how each thinks gender roles should be assigned.

Don't you find that hard? For me it taints everything.

It limits the topics of conversation. It does give me a lot of insight into their thought process.

One friend has a full blown TRA for a daughter.

The other is concerned for her tween daughter and high school since her daughter is a adolescent human female. I'm hoping she comes to her senses.

[–] hellamomzilla 18 points Edited

I’m sorry.

I was fortunate that both my closest girlfriends were supportive of me. One has known me since I was a teenager, so she absolutely knew I wasn’t a bad person, out to harm my child. The other friend is newer, but she could SEE how out of control my kid was and she was just positive TO ME. I know she’s otherwise pro-trans, but I try to be accepting of the grace I’m shown and keep on moving.

I do know how upsetting it is to have people who you think know and care for you oppose you. In my case, a sibling. It’s so devastating. In standing up FOR and TO our kids, we need love and support and when our loved ones oppose us, it’s so unsettling.

You’re right, Mamabear. Sadly, it can be lonely and difficult being right and doing what’s best for your vulnerable kid and shrugging off those who aren’t on the same path with you.

I hope there are other people in your life who understand you and stand with you.

I think your friend needs the education and gentle prompts that girls can have short hair and not like makeup, and boys can be being gentle and kind.

Affirming regressive sex-based stereotypes in a teenager is not a kind or thoughtful thing to do

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