He lost me at "this was not a cosmetic procedure but was medically necessary".

Same here. Also, in the end when he said "If I had enough money to chose my own surgeon". Stop, this could've happened anyway

It's always someone else's fault, huh?

In this situation, I'd say it's the doctor's fault. He was the one doing the surgery, he botched it, his nurses tried to cover his ass and missed the warning signs of a stroke.

I offer incompetent medical people no mercy when they fuck up. They don't get to pin their incompetence on the patient.

"if I had enough money to choose my own surgeon"

You don't deserve the fucking surgery in the first place because you don't have the money to pay for your own surgeon. Stop playing the victim about your free plastic surgery when we have to pay out of pocket.

No, you should not need money to deserve surgery, what a fucked-up propaganda you have been raised in in the US.

Yup. Couldn't decide what was more eye-roll worthy. That line or that the first thing he listed that he can't do now is play games.

This is so sad. How can they let people like him ruin their life and body, and think what they do is good. THIS is what can push people to suicide, not denying these horrifying medical experiments.

How can they let people like him ruin their life and body, and think what they do is good.

I think one main reason is that it is academically justified through gender identity theory. I can't recall modern cases of systemic abuse that were not ideologically justified by the intelligentsia. It was the case for lobotomies as well, for example, which I would consider a comparable surgical procedure: "palliative care" for mental illness. I believe if people received objective information on "gender-affirming surgery" itself, we would democratically vote to ban it. But right now it is justified because supposedly people can be "born in the wrong body", so the body needs to be mutilated to fit a social conception of gender, i.e. for social conformity. The Wikipedia article on gender identity doesn't even have a criticism section.

But if you have weight or other non-gender appearance related dysmorphia, they actually attempt to treat the mind, rather than say, encouraging anorexic women to get to their goal weight (I guess in this case, it'd be more akin to actually providing them liposuction!) Putting your health and life at risk goes against the whole mission of the medical community, and so many post-op trans find themselves worse off mentally anyway. Like when can we file this away as a shameful part of our mental healthcare history and move on?

In the case of lobotomy it was stopped through a combination of civil rights groups organizing and protesting, medical professionals who spoke out against the practice, and research that disproved the underlying theory and assumptions. What was different is that there were no pro-lobotomy activists who intimidated critics and victims of the surgery, as well as those researching negative effects of it or better/alternative forms of treatment. In addition, lobotomy was a quick and primitive procedure, meaning there wasn't much revenue that could be generated from it. So I think it will require more effort and courage to end the horrible surgeries justified by gender ideology, but the approach seems to be working as it did back then, achieving some small successes recently. I'm still relatively new to the gender critical movement and am looking to join local protests once I'm vaccinated against COVID.

Once there are enough bad surgeries that the lawsuits would outlay the profits to be made.

The problem with this movement is how much money there is in it. There so many things to buy to change genders.

THIS is what can push people to suicide, not denying these horrifying medical experiments.

Slow clap

Yeah. Who's more likely to commit suicide now? This person post-surgery, or this person pre-surgery?

[–] Gini 🌸 Ad meliora 🦕 58 points

Cosmetic surgery has been so normalized that most people really don't understand the risks. Every surgery there is a chance of this. It's why with health issues doctors try to find out if you really need surgery and often try medication first. At least the good ones do.

All these doctors and nurses performing these unnecessary surgeries are just golddigging leeches who put shame onto their oath to do no harm.

I am in this not just for women's rights, but also for all these poor children and mentally ill people who are being lied to and tricked into becoming life long patients while they started out with healthy bodies.

This kids life is ruined because they groomed him to believe he would never be happy in his own skin.

It's disgusting and horrifying and people have the nerve to say we are on the wrong side of history.

[–] Lilim 23 points Edited

This is my view too. Most vets are more honest, open and willing to take the time to explain complications and risks than these butchers experimenting on humans, many of them children or mentally ill.

I’ve lost my ability to feel compassion towards these AGPs because they chose to do this to themselves but the fact remains that there shouldn’t be “doctors” even willing to entertain the thought of doing these “procedures” let alone making them state/province funded.

Elective surgery is just so fucking predatory in general.

Both the beauty industry and the trans business treat surgeries like magically dipping your body in fairy dust and then you emerge on the other side with that perfect dream body you always wanted and your life will finally be complete.

Surgeries are gruesome, you always have a chance of complications and actual death with each surgery you undertake. I recently had to have a small necessary surgery in my foot and even this was sooo gruesome, and everything went completely fine, no complications. Compared to the genital butchery they do, mine was nothing!

And besides something going terribly wrong there's all kinds of possible after effects, i read a rumor that for example Kylie Jenner is basically a druggie now after she had like 5 to 10 surgeries before she was even 23.

Exactly. I've chosen to live in pain with a stomach condition for this reason as well as the uncertainty of the success of the procedure. The surgeon himself told me at my age (30s) he wouldn't go through with it. And it's basically my only hope for a pain-free life at this point.

And here these people are claiming this crap is "medically necessary" or "life-saving" rather than cosmetic. I feel bad that anyone should have a stroke but that's just BS. You buy the ticket, you take the ride.

"The nurses pretty much told me to stop complaining"

Welcome to the fantastic world of being a woman where your pain will be minimized and or ignored by professionals !

They get so upset when they get exactly what they asked for.

Well......no. He didn't ask to be in the hands of idiots. He wanted competent surgery with excellent results. He's a layman. It's up to the professionals who make thousands of dollars per surgery to tell him if that's not actually possible.

He's not a child. He clearly has access to the internet which has information available for anyone to peruse.

[–] [Deleted] 5 points Edited

Haha! Yea except they can cry discrimination when the gyno won't jack off his penis, and we cant when we're given the husband stitch against our knowledge or consent.

The fact that he attributes the failure of this surgery to him not having enough money to choose his own surgeon is so revelatory of the interplay between capitalism and transgenderism. He doesn't think this is a bad procedure, he thinks he was sold a substandard product, and if he were rich everything would've been fine. TRA's really do see bodies as Mr. Potato Head dolls- a neutral 'base model' that you can pay to add and remove accessories from- even if the substandard accessory is embedded in your head.

[–] Lolo 31 points

It is so fucked up that after all that he wouldn't swear off unnecessary surgery all together.

That's because he's been told that it's NOT unnecessary. And professionals refuse to offer other treatment options for dysphoria. He's been told by everybody that it's transition or death.

He's been told by everybody that it's transition or death.

I would have believed this even a decade ago, but there is a multitude of experiences online he can read about. Botched surgery stories aren't actually that hard to find. Second opinions exist. He wasn't forced to do this.

Second opinions exist. He wasn't forced to do this.

Would you say that to a woman groomed into prostitution? That there are plenty of resources to see that it would be a lifetime of trauma?

It’s the same mechanisms: these people are groomed to think these surgeries are easy, that they will be great, that not doing it puts them at risk of suicide. And they tell them to not ever read what TERFs say because they’re evil. It’s difficult to challenge ones worldview, even more so when you’re already in mental pain.

I feel like they know. The "life or death" stuff is to get it paid for.

Social contagion is a real thing, though. I'm sure there are disingenuous people but others do fall prey.

[–] Intuiterf 30 points Edited

I took a look at that subreddit. When guys post their face asking what they need for facial feminization surgery, the top comments recommend around 5-6 surgeries. Look at these replies to a post asking what they should get.

Forehead reconstruction, hairline lowering, brow lifts, orbital shaving, sliding genioplasty to make your chin less square and reduce the height. Your nose doesn't look masculine in this photo. Would be nice to see a side profile too.

I think a hairline surgery, browbone shave and chin implant... And if you really want to go far I would say a mini nosejob to make a nice slide instead of a straight bone :) but I think for the eyes, maybe you can try to do a eyebrow lift with a canthoplasty to make the eyes larger...

I wasn't expecting whole lists when I clicked. It's so callous and inhumane. It really is akin to telling someone with anorexia that they need to be more thin. I don't understand how you can look at a person who has a dysphoria and tell them 6 different things you think is wrong with their face, and that they need surgery for it, it's so incredibly cruel, and the exact opposite of how we should be treating dysphoria.

Edit: Also this gem on a post where the guy is begging people who also regret surgery to contact him because he's so alone and has no support within the trans community.

I notice your posting on detrans. I would advise you to avoid that sub as it’s likely to make things worse

Like he's literally begging for any kind of support and this is your response? What the fuck is wrong with people.

And the doctors are laughing alllllll the way to the bank! 6 surgeries!

And that's just for the face, not including all the surgeries they get below the neck. But if we say people should instead try to focus on being healthy in the body they have, we're the bad guys. To me these comments read the same as "just get an entirely new face, yours is all wrong, here are the exact spots that it is wrong face, this is what you can change to get a better face" just stop it, there's nothing wrong with that dude's face.

[–] highpriestess 9 points Edited

Remember that show in the mid-2000s where they'd give women like 15 different surgeries to make them look like a different person? Extreme Makeover, or The Swan. I remember hoping that show would end and be a relic of the past - which it did. This seems like this decade's version of that.

Hopefully this trend will die out too. It just won't die out as fast since it's not on network tv for everyone to see.

That show was disgusting. Now it's so ingrained in our society to change anything you see as a "problem," it doesn't need to be a "reality" show; it is reality now. That scene in The Hunger Games when all the guests at the party in the Capitol are so fucked up from plastic surgery, yep.

[+] [Deleted] 24 points

Poor bastard. I can't help but feel a little bad for him, as deluded as he may be.

In earlier generations, this person probably would've just gotten treatment for this. Now, they've fucked themselves up for the rest of their lives

God damn I feel sorry for this person. Of COURSE his insurance company shuffled him off to a cheap doctor. I hope they'll have to pay through the nose now rather than either refusing the surgery altogether or at least selecting a competent doctor.

And don't tell me those hormones didn't make this surgery more dangerous. They already increase the chance of stroke.

There has to be a better way to deal with dysphoria.

He said it was medi-cal, which is California's medicare program. So bottom of the barrel, baseline coverage.

Oh. Typical pennywise and pound foolish. He will be disabled for the rest of his life, which will cost the state far more than it would have to send him to a good doctor.

Yes. Like someone upthread mentioned, trans ppl seem to think they are like mr. potatohead (or ms potatohead) and surgeons are all the same swapping body parts around. If he was an able bodied adult and on medi-cal he must have some pretty terrible problems, its not easy to qualify w/o being a woman with children. I think in his case it probably would have been better just to not attempt ffs w/o having better insurance or the money to pay for it, but if he is on the disability train and doesn't want to get a job to pay for it himself getting medi-cal to do it would probably be the only way, since it is very expensive.

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