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Hey all,

Sorry if this is the wrong circle to post this under (feel free to move if it is, or I can make a new post), but was in a bit of a frustrating situation recently.

I have a friend from back in my uni days who used to be a lesbian, however the past two years or so she has started dating TIMs. Now I think being bisexual isn't bad or anything, but she refuses to accept that she is bisexual and continues to call herself a lesbian.

Every time I mention it she gets really standoffish and even when we're with people I don't consider woke, it always feels like they're trying to get me to shut up. I know this is most likely just because they're scared of TRAs but it honestly feels like gaslighting.

This recently got a lot worse when my friend snapped at me, saying I was "erasing her sexuality" and that "she's attracted to women, not biology" (whatever that means) - It took everything I had not to point out that she was erasing the sexuality of lesbians by claiming that label while dating men.

Is there any way that I can convince her? I'm really worried I've pushed her even further into gender ideology by not going along with it, and that I might lose my friendship with her (I imagine the TIMs she's dating have been spouting nonsense at her constantly).

Hey all, Sorry if this is the wrong circle to post this under (feel free to move if it is, or I can make a new post), but was in a bit of a frustrating situation recently. I have a friend from back in my uni days who used to be a lesbian, however the past two years or so she has started dating TIMs. Now I think being bisexual isn't bad or anything, but she refuses to accept that she is bisexual and continues to call herself a lesbian. Every time I mention it she gets really standoffish and even when we're with people I don't consider woke, it always feels like they're trying to get me to shut up. I know this is most likely just because they're scared of TRAs but it honestly feels like gaslighting. This recently got a lot worse when my friend snapped at me, saying I was "erasing her sexuality" and that "she's attracted to women, not biology" (whatever that means) - It took everything I had not to point out that *she* was erasing the sexuality of lesbians by claiming that label while dating men. Is there any way that I can convince her? I'm really worried I've pushed her even further into gender ideology by not going along with it, and that I might lose my friendship with her (I imagine the TIMs she's dating have been spouting nonsense at her constantly).

24 comments

[–] Turtlefuzz Gender Outlaw 🤠 43 points

This recently got a lot worse when my friend snapped at me, saying I was "erasing her sexuality" and that "she's attracted to women, not biology"

Jesus, what a homophobic thing to say. Thinking that sexual orientation is anything but biological is so gross.

I honestly don't have any advice, but that comment from your "friend" would have been enough for me to stop being friends with her.

Bi women like her give the rest of us such a bad rap. I really wish they would grow up and stop acting so spoiled.

Reconsider this friendship. She's selling women out for men, and she'll do it to you in a heartbeat.

saying I was "erasing her sexuality" and that "she's attracted to women, not biology" (whatever that means)

"I'M ATTRACTED TO LIPSTICK!!! NOT REALITY!!!" 🤣

[–] arete 20 points Edited

Has she ever dated or expressed the desire to date any other man? If the answer is no, then it's possible that she is indeed a lesbian who has been gaslighted into accepting TIMs as women and that as a lesbian, she's obligated to include them in her dating pool. I would point out to her that transgenderism is a form of conversion therapy for homosexuals, and ask her to define woman. What does she think women are, if not a material reality grounded in biology?

In the time I've known her she hasn't dated any normal men, or seemed to show any interest. She's shown me pictures of TIMs she's met on Tinder, saying she doesn't see them any different from "other women" (her words 🤢), and that her attraction counts as lesbian because of this. Even giving the benefit of the doubt of angles, filters and AI-malarky people use nowadays on dating apps, I really don't get how that translates once she actually meets them. Like to me there is 0% chance you could mistake a TIM for a woman even from an unedited photograph so saying she feels this way in person is honestly sickening.

I really feel that she's been gaslit, and maybe a bit isolated because of the "lockdown" nonsense we've endured the past few years.

Based on all the comments here I think I'm going to be persistent but try and be more subtle/less pushy about it. Slow and steady wins the race 😅

I agree with being more subtle/less pushy, especially since this is someone you care about. I don't understand it, but many liberals are so blind to the harms and complete lack of logic of transgenderism that I do believe they genuinely see TIMs as women and TIFs as men. If your friend is indeed a lesbian, she's getting herself correctively raped, which is something I wouldn't wish on my worst enemies. And I know if I made a grave mistake in life or did something extremely stupid, I would want my friends to let me see the error of my ways, instead of abandoning me or pretending nothing happened. Easier said than done though, obviously. I wish you good luck in your efforts!

I find it insulting frankly. She should call herself bisexual, like she is, or "queer" like the rest of them. Lesbian is for women who love and sleep with women.

[–] Tq231442 Cervix owner 13 points Edited

I think I would still say out loud, at every relevant opportunity, that she's not a lesbian. That word means something. It specifically excludes men. Men force themselves everywhere but we need to stand our ground where we can and it's important.

I get not wanting to start arguments but that's one of the situations I would have to object. I really can't shut up when someone is being overtly sexist, racist or says anything really fucked up in general. People (especially men and TRAs) get away with saying too much fucked up shit out loud without anyone calling them out, because we don't want to look like a wet blanket or have a confrontation.

We all have our line in the sand I guess.

[–] ItsCalculated 17 points Edited

My immediate response is for an actual lesbian to exclude her from the moniker swiftly, and firmly. One that can tell her that the word comes from The Isle of Lesbos, where the ancient Greek, Sappho, wrote poetry about her love for other women. One that can, as one of us, and on behalf of the rest of us, tell her she is not one of us, and can see her way the fuck out of using the word. One to tell her that she is wrong, the word will always belong to us, and she can die mad about it, and cut the conversation there.

Are you one or know one? I won't tolerate this shit anymore.

[–] Tiramisuomi 8 points Edited

She changed from a lesbian to a bisexual the instant she dated someone with a penis.

Imagine fucking a dude to be a good ally only to discover that you accidentally said TWAM

ETA realize now that you assigned the label instead of her, lol my bad

Honestly, I have a feeling like lots of women are being pressured to have sex with TIMs because TWAW. It's absolutely men catching on that there's a way to take all the corrective-rape terminology like "Oh, we have so much in common (in response to "I like women")" and "You just haven't been dicked right" and sell it in a way it will be bought. Your friend could very well be the lesbian she's always been, but caught up in this.

There's no perfect solution to all of it, so I would say to do what you have to do - if that's keeping your head down and keeping the peace, that's cool. If you want to fight with all you've got, or decide you don't need this shit in your life anymore and pull the fade, that's cool too. We're all living in the real world, as crazy as it all is.

Ugh. This is a different situation but I had a close college friend who I bonded with talking historically and academically about female oppression. Once I lightly mentioned men identifying as women taking female resources and she was immediately on the defensive, making sure I knew trans women are NOT a problem because TWAW. I had to distance myself from soothing her and discussing her feminist takes because if she won’t open her eyes to the patriarchal threat in a frilly dress then I dont know what I can do for her.

It’s like there’s a puzzle piece missing in her brain called reality

The cult programming activates quickly on any mention of TiMs. Critical thinking gets shut down in order to pander to these men, no matter what.

It took everything I had not to point out that she was erasing the sexuality of lesbians by claiming that label while dating men.>

Gahhh, you should have said it! I understand, though. This whole movement has made us feel like we need to walk a thin line between standing up for what’s right and true and risking shunning, doxxing, physical violence, etc.

For me, it would be a dealbreaker and I’d accept losing her friendship. She’s contributing to the mass homophobia going towards lesbians where they’re being gaslit into “checking their genital preferences”, contributing to bi erasure, and straight up denying biology. That’s not someone I would stand to be friends with. Lesbian is our word and these assholes have tried to twist and pervert the term to fit their individual need to invade our spaces, feel special, and/or oppressed when they are the ones engaging in oppression themselves.

It sucks, but there will be other friends. This site and one other are the only places where I get to interact with fellow radfems and true lesbians. I hope to find some in the wild, but until then I’m okay with this arrangement because I’m not compromising on this stuff with anyone. My sexuality means something, and people like that making me walk on eggshells to not hurt their fairytale feelings can fuck right off.

Sadly this is common, and not even just with TIMs. Some women are attracted to or even dating normal men and still call themselves lesbians.

I don't know if it's possible to change their minds, since all discussions are usually shut down with accusations of biphobia and gatekeeping. They are way too entitled and don't care about how we lesbians feel.

[–] hmimperialtortie AGP = evil 4 points

They call themselves lesbians while dating men and complain about biphobia when asked about it? O.o

They think they are being "treated badly" because they are seen as bi (and the lesbians are manhaters who see women touched by men as inferior). Maybe it's like how some TIMs say we hate them because of misandry?

Though it's more common for the defense to come from other people, who say lesbian is an umbrella term and bi women aren't doing any harm by hijacking it, so we should leave them alone.

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