102

So this is a thought I've had for a long time, especially after following certain infamous AGPs like Kevin Gibes.

These are men who have had very little female interaction since childhood, they're usually nerdy guys who grew up with male friends and the few women they interacted with were family members. This doesn't change when they go online, most of them grow up in male dominated spaces like 4chan, specifically the boards centred around anime and videogames. They obsess over the female characters in this media, which are usually very unrealistic and designed to appeal to (often paedophilic) men.

I don't believe in the male vs female brain or anything, but it's obvious these men have absolutely no clue when it comes to women. They don't hear women's opinions, don't engage in any kind of conversation with women at all, even women who share their nerdy interests. How can they identify as something they know nothing about?? Instead they're using these fictional female characters as their 'blueprint' for what a woman is.

I have trouble putting it into words but it's like they're transitioning into something other than a woman, the 'become the gf' meme comes to mind but over the last few years it's mutated into its own thing. They want to be bimbos, dolls, brainless drones, furries with multiple pairs of breasts, underage catgirls... all male fantasies that don't exist in real life.

Even once they transition they continue to have nothing to do with real women. They usually stay in cliques consisting of other TIMs who all encourage each other to become more perverted and develop even more fetishes. When actual females (even TIFs) cross paths with them they're often hostile. It reminds me of how men addicted to porn or hentai develop more and more impossible fetishes when they become desensitised to 'normal' things.

I'm not sure where I'm really going with these thoughts but I wanted to put them somewhere! I'm honestly grateful for terms like TIM because it completely erases any connection to womanhood and it's really accurate with men like this. In a way I wish they'd just identify as something else because it's obvious they don't want to even be women anymore and it's just another kink for the list, and I think they simply enjoy how much it upsets women when they take over our spaces and conversations. They'd still be disgusting even if they called themselves something else, but at least they wouldn't have so much political power anymore :/ They could just be lumped in with all the other kinkster men.

So this is a thought I've had for a long time, especially after following certain infamous AGPs like Kevin Gibes. These are men who have had very little female interaction since childhood, they're usually nerdy guys who grew up with male friends and the few women they interacted with were family members. This doesn't change when they go online, most of them grow up in male dominated spaces like 4chan, specifically the boards centred around anime and videogames. They obsess over the female characters in this media, which are usually very unrealistic and designed to appeal to (often paedophilic) men. I don't believe in the male vs female brain or anything, but it's obvious these men have absolutely no clue when it comes to women. They don't hear women's opinions, don't engage in any kind of conversation with women at all, even women who share their nerdy interests. How can they identify as something they know nothing about?? Instead they're using these fictional female characters as their 'blueprint' for what a woman is. I have trouble putting it into words but it's like they're transitioning into something other than a woman, the 'become the gf' meme comes to mind but over the last few years it's mutated into its own thing. They want to be bimbos, dolls, brainless drones, furries with multiple pairs of breasts, underage catgirls... all male fantasies that don't exist in real life. Even once they transition they continue to have nothing to do with real women. They usually stay in cliques consisting of other TIMs who all encourage each other to become more perverted and develop even more fetishes. When actual females (even TIFs) cross paths with them they're often hostile. It reminds me of how men addicted to porn or hentai develop more and more impossible fetishes when they become desensitised to 'normal' things. I'm not sure where I'm really going with these thoughts but I wanted to put them somewhere! I'm honestly grateful for terms like TIM because it completely erases any connection to womanhood and it's really accurate with men like this. In a way I wish they'd just identify as something else because it's obvious they don't want to even be women anymore and it's just another kink for the list, and I think they simply enjoy how much it upsets women when they take over our spaces and conversations. They'd still be disgusting even if they called themselves something else, but at least they wouldn't have so much political power anymore :/ They could just be lumped in with all the other kinkster men.

40 comments

I have met enough TIMs and realized that their attitudes toward actual women and actual women's issues ranged from indifference to active hatred. I've never met a TIM who knew anything about historical women's movements, women's anatomy, the sociology of sex-based oppression, or any of the stuff that real women deal with daily. All of them either just wanted to achieve a certain look or actively hated women and had the attitude that they were going to show us dumb broads how to be a woman because they were convinced they could do it better.

It boils my blood how they expect to be centred in feminism but couldn't give a damn about any issues women face, or actively fetishise it!

This.. It was spending time talking to these men and browsing their forums when looking to understand my TV ex that started my peakenings.

good luck when they know just a bit they are considered semi gods in liberal spaces I evn know of a radical space taken for a TIM.

It's a new form of masculinity. That is why you can't quite put your finger on it, because it is both the same and different. TIMs aren't trying to become women, they are trying to create a new masculinity that will be accepted by other men and moreover jockeying to have their form of masculinity be socially dominant.

[–] no- 10 points Edited

You nailed it. It’s the so-called beta males trying to assert their dominance. Gender means everything to men because it’s a power hierarchy in which they’re constantly competing against each other, and most recently against women too. Heck, “alpha” and “beta” were the original genders men made up to classify themselves into.

[–] RuneOwl 34 points Edited

They’re not women, they don’t have anything fundamentally in common with women, they don’t behave or navigate life the way women have to. And they don’t care.

Identifying with women is not what they want. They want to be a man’s one-dimensional, shallow, fetishized idea of a woman, because they think this will make their lives easier in some way (girls don’t have to worry about anything important, they just get to be cute and dumb and go shopping and get catcalled for being hot, how fun!), or because their brains are so fried by porn that bizarre kinks have completely consumed their lives.

It doesn’t matter to them that their self-image and internal world has nothing in common with real life women (as if they’d even listen to women enough to have any meaningful notion of what it’s like anyway). They want the externalized, third-party projection of womanhood that’s been heavily filtered through male sexual fantasies, which is all they know and all any of them were after to begin with. This sad caricature of a woman is all TIMs can really aspire to anyway, because neither sex can go any further than skin deep trying to become the other.

Just watch how ALL of them will happily retain male privilege when it suits them (and stay in their comfort zone with male-dominated careers and interests), even if it means their “womanhood” might get indirectly invalidated. But they never try to respectfully learn to integrate themselves among other women and have meaningful connections with us, because ‘cis girls’ only exist to be validation machines and that’s it. Absolutely everything about trans-identified men stays fundamentally male-identified.

[–] no- 25 points Edited

It’s like the myth of Galatea. TIMs hate women, but are in love with femininity and their embodiment of it. Femininity in its most stereotypical form is loosely inspired by women, but it’s been created by and for men. It belongs to them, and they love it more than they could ever love women.

[–] puppy_cat 19 points Edited

They want to be treated like a special class of men, and they want to be treated like a special oppressed class. That's why so many of them are usually straight, white men. They also have so many weird TiM interests that no actual women have. For example, wearing trans flag thigh highs ("programmer socks" that are strictly a TiM thing) and the "spinny skirt " thing they started (no woman has ever said "I want to make skirt go spinny I love being a girl lol!") It's all fetishistic TiMs.

I remember a comment a long time ago on radblr saying that TIMs are what happens when you convince straight white men that they're the most oppressed minority on the planet. Absolutely no clue what actual bigotry looks like

The way that they think about "girls" and women makes me think of the scene in the '80s movie Weird Science where the two young geeky dudes make a girl with their super cool computer. https://youtu.be/B8dldLG_ZhI

No, they don't want to be women. I used to push this issue on the old r/GCdebatesQT. Several told me they just didn't feel like men, so transitioned. And i'd try to figure out how this was much different than other young people having existential crisis.

[–] Philogynist 🦋🌍🍃 15 points

Yooo shoutout r/GCdebatesQT. Cool to bump into someone who also posted on that sub.

When I was in high school, we used to just call these idiots "losers." If it were possible to be more than 100% correct, you would be, so thanks for the modern take on this specific type of loser. More important than labeling all the file folders with their exact brand of loserness, though, is eradicating them, whether by fixing their psychopathology or composting them. How do we do that?

[–] TrustYourself detrans 18 points Edited

You are spot on. This reminds me and I can reflect now and see how I had similar magical thinking. A lot of TRAs argue and disregard how big an impact socialisation plays but I always felt it when interacting with TIMs. Grand canyon spaced chasm just like any other man. Actually, it was worse because they thought they knew what it was like being a woman and that they had the authority to tell me what it was like. They had the authority to talk down to me. They have zero comphrension, absolutely no conceptulisation of what being a woman, an adult human female, in this world is like. All they had was this is sick fantasy, a pornified version. They are "trans girls" with none of the duties or responsibilities of an actual, real life women.

That is one (of the many reasons) I detransitioned. Social roles, socialisation, interacting with others. The lack of flexibility in expressing myself. If I was too feminine, I was percieved as gay and then a target. So I understand why they transition away from being a man, it feels suffocating to be one. Completely restrictive and awful.

Feminism fights for women to be free. We fought so don't have to do anything, we have space and the ability of freedom of expression. Patriarchy, marketing, men and all their BS have kept up trying to influence and tell us how to be women - tell men they can be women, tell us to get surgery to be bigger, better more pornified women.

I wanted you to know you are 100% onto something. I am tired and I just wanted to respond before I forget. I am tired of men telling US - women they know our experience better than us and discounting what we know. There is always the nature vs nuture argument. I believe nuture shapes us more, due to without certain factors in our environment, some genes never get activated. I think maybe 70/30, or 60/40. So I hate when people discount socialisation so quickly.

[–] Tq231442 Cervix owner 18 points

The more I learn about them (stumbling upon them on Reddit, Twitter, screenshots I see here) and the way they think, the more they make my skin crawl. Seeing one in public activates my fight-or-flight instinct 🤣

Load more (11 comments)