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Like most women on this site, I don't believe gender is a thing. I know sex is a thing and that it can be easily proven, but gender seems to be some kind of wishy-washy concept for which there is no evidence and no actual definition. I don't believe gender exists so I don't have a gender. If it is up to each individual to know their true gender on an intimate level by searching their soul for it, then I guess I miss out. I just don't have the inner workings to detect gender, either in myself or in others.

Transgender people's whole identity relies on the concept of gender being real. They actually say they aren't attracted to a person's sex but to their innate gender. If this is so, how can they be attracted to me when I don't have a gender? Why do they harass lesbians for sex if those lesbians don't have a gender either?

Because gender doesn't exist for me, I can't be attracted to it. Who can admire what they cannot see, touch, experience, or understand? Yet transgender people call me bigoted if I am not attracted to their gender. Sex I can see and acknowledge but gender is invisible and inexplicable to me. Am I bigoted for only being attracted to what I can detect in a person?

It's not my fault I can't see or appreciate gender in the way some others can. I wish trans people would stop harassing the genderwoo-impaired for the way they were born. It's such a hateful and bigoted way to act towards a group who just want to be left alone.

Like most women on this site, I don't believe gender is a thing. I know sex is a thing and that it can be easily proven, but gender seems to be some kind of wishy-washy concept for which there is no evidence and no actual definition. I don't believe gender exists so I don't have a gender. If it is up to each individual to know their true gender on an intimate level by searching their soul for it, then I guess I miss out. I just don't have the inner workings to detect gender, either in myself or in others. Transgender people's whole identity relies on the concept of gender being real. They actually say they aren't attracted to a person's sex but to their innate gender. If this is so, how can they be attracted to me when I don't have a gender? Why do they harass lesbians for sex if those lesbians don't have a gender either? Because gender doesn't exist for me, I can't be attracted to it. Who can admire what they cannot see, touch, experience, or understand? Yet transgender people call me bigoted if I am not attracted to their gender. Sex I can see and acknowledge but gender is invisible and inexplicable to me. Am I bigoted for only being attracted to what I can detect in a person? It's not my fault I can't see or appreciate gender in the way some others can. I wish trans people would stop harassing the genderwoo-impaired for the way they were born. It's such a hateful and bigoted way to act towards a group who just want to be left alone.

24 comments

[–] LearningBravery 25 points (+25|-0)

And also remember gender presentation =/= gender identity. How can you know someone’s gender identity if all one can see is their gender presentation and we’re also supposed to remember the fomer doesnt equal the latter? No logic.

[–] XX_Power 4 points (+4|-0)

That's why I always find it funny when people say they are attracted to "non binaries". Yeah so that may be anything from a 5' woman to a 7' 300 lbs man. Cool, what a useful label.

[–] ActualWendy 5 points (+5|-0)

Those people are merely admitting they are attracted to the cool kids.

[–] XX_Power 3 points (+3|-0)

I thought it's mostly sexless teens, who with puberty blockers will stay childish and sex repulsed forever.

[–] IrishTheFrenchie 22 points (+22|-0)

I still can't get a single TIM or TRA to tell me to define "how it feels to be a woman", "femininity", or "female gender" without using sexist stereotypes.

[–] assigned_terf_at_birth 15 points (+15|-0) Edited

I can answer this! I made the mistake of telling a [former] friend that I was joining a feminist organization and was treated to several hours of lecturing on the topic. Here's what I learned:

Sex doesn't actually exist in biology, because it has no intrinsic teleology. It's just a classification that terfs choose for ease of reasoning and convenience. Probably because terfs are bigots? ¯_(ツ)_/¯ Any biological definition you come up with falls apart because intersex people exist and some people don't produce gametes at all so it is a false binary. And really, if you want to say humans are sexually* dimorphic then you have to say that all species are binary because otherwise you're not being consistent because other species exist too. Consider the slug. If we apply the gamete standard to slugs, it breaks! We're just choosing to apply it to humans, because as I say, bigots. Sex isn't based in reality. Neither is the color blue, because we just arbitrarily decided what range of wavelengths on the light spectrum to assign the word to. Probably because scientists are bigots.

What "gender" is actually referring to whatever combination of biological characteristics (primary sex organs, secondary sex organs, secondary sex characteristics, etc) a person has. So it's not a binary, because technically people can have all sorts of combinations of those characteristics. So when terfs say 'sex', they're actually talking about gender, which, as you can see, is completely biological. When you say you can identify sex, you are actually talking about gender. And you are a bigot because you think there are only two, when there are actually a bunch of possible characteristic combinations that could make a woman.

And anyway, you can't actually identify sex, only perceived sex because you don't actually know what combination of biological sex characteristics that person has. You just think you can because you're a bigot. And the thing you're calling gender? That's really gender roles.

[edit] corrected biologically to sexually, not that it matters because it's all bullshit

Wow. No wonder their minds have no room for logic when they are so clogged up with this kind of shit.

Perhaps this clown should go and live with all the other slugs instead of humans, then.

I'm just kind of surprised you stayed for all of that. Or were you stuck in a broken elevator or something?

[–] Tyro 3 points (+3|-0)

Should've mentioned the cuttlefish - cuttlefish clearly understand the sex binary, because small males disguise themselves as females in order to access females without attracting the wrath of the more dominant males.

[–] SawItComing 1 points (+1|-0)

Well that's some bullshit. The teleology is procreation. Where does your friend think she came from?

This is great. I love it. There is no such thing as gender. It's some nebulous ether. Some mythical substance from an alchemy textbook.

I had some religious proselytizers stop me on campus one day to ask if I'd heard of the feminine nature of the divine (or something like that) and I told them "I don't believe in the supernatural."

"Gender is a man-made thing" -- maybe I'll try that, emphasis on MAN-made!

[–] banjo 3 points (+3|-0)

I'm starting to think this is the best way to concisely introduce the gender critical pov, framing it as a religious belief we don't subscribe to. Put the burden on them to explain wtf gender identity is

I wasn't quite sure, but I looked it up, and I am happy to inform you that there are terms for you!

Your gender is "agender" (or "genderfree") and people attracted to you would be "ageninic". If you as an "agender" person are "ageninic", you are "Delphinian".

I looked up the Delphinian flag and it is the same purple, white, and green stripes as the suffragette flag. Yay me!

Even if their made-up costume “gender” was real, they are uniformly repellent.

[–] PlainSimpleTailor BigGameteEnergy 5 points (+5|-0) Edited

TRAs really dug themselves into a big fat hole which their "gender can be anything you want" claim. Because if you renounce any and all definitions of gender, you also lose the ability to effectively signal your gender to someone else. You always have to explain it, and people will likely still not understand because "binary" gender is so entrenched in society that even trans people themselves have to reference binary gender to explain their own gender (leading to all kinds of mental acrobatics, how can you reject something which you desperately need to define yourself?). They even say it's transphobic and short-sighted to infer someone's gender from their outside presentation. They literally say gender expression and gender identity are different. How can I be attracted to someone's identity, something I can not experience for myself? (which they also love to stress because every experience is ~unique~!). Are they truly saying you can only be attracted to someone once they explained their identity to you? What they're trying to say nowadays is that the way you feel inside also retroactively redefines anything about your outside, meaning that someone who identifies as female but presents in typically masculine ways or has masculine features is now automatically feminine, and it's just the other person's narrow worldview which categorized their appearance as masculine in the first place. So, literally: nothing ever is one way or another unless the trans person tells you what it is exactly. On the other hand, they use words like "masc" and "femme" to describe their gender expression which does rely on the same old gender roles we've always had. I mean, it's just so extremely convoluted, and they're tying themselves in knots trying to explain how attraction could possibly work in that framework. Let's say I am only attracted to features I consider "masculine", but then a person who has those features explains they're actually feminine because he identifies as a woman, but then I am not attracted to a host of other people who have truly feminine features and also identify as feminine -- what am I attracted to? Somehow both and none at once? Oh right, of course: everyone is pansexual and only ever attracted to personalities, not physical features of any kind. Sure. And they're saying they're not erasing homosexuality?

[–] SawItComing 3 points (+3|-0)

"So, literally: nothing ever is one way or another unless the trans person tells you what it is exactly."

You have hit the nail on the head and identified hat's really behind all this: the desire to fully control another person. If you are not allowed to percieve and describe another person until they tell you what words to use, then you are fully subordinated and controlled by that person.

[–] PlainSimpleTailor BigGameteEnergy 3 points (+3|-0) Edited

Funnily enough they also want people to magically know how to perceive them "correctly", because they're so tired of "defending their right to exist". So basically everyone else needs to accommodate their feelings but without asking too many questions about those feelings. It's expecting other people to read their minds. Blindly accept what we tell you, but also don't make blanket assumptions about trans people, but also stay educated on trans issues so you don't say the wrong thing, but whatever you might have thought to be true about trans people can change at a moment's notice. It's not trans people's job to educate you, but also ask us first before you say anything about us at all, and also modify your perception of the world to what we tell you. It gets really funny when trans people have conflicting demands of what "cis" people are supposed to think and say, and at that point it becomes very obvious that many raging TRAs are truly on a power trip and while they might say that we should listen to all trans experiences, what they mean is "listen to my experiences and mine only, and do whatever to validate me, don't listen to anyone else, especially if they say things I don't like" (as evidenced by their efforts to silence detransitioners). Well, it's all just men's rights after all. Finally a woke way to tell lowly women that they need to be perpetually apologetic and already guilty of something before they even open their mouths.

If any trans ever tries to bully me into a date by saying I should only judge their attractiveness by their personality and what's on the inside, I am going to say that I find their personality quite repellent and that I'm actually a bit scared of what may be on the inside.

[–] PlainSimpleTailor BigGameteEnergy 2 points (+2|-0) Edited

I mean, I get the idea of "don't judge people by their appearance" and I can get behind that, but what trans people are trying to do is not "get to know me first", it's more like "how dare you be attracted to something I didn't specifically tell you to be attracted to, and not use the exact words I chose for those things myself." It also goes the other way, they get mad when you aren't attracted to something about them they worked so hard on, and try to argue that it's just transphobia. No one owes anybody attraction.

[–] Tyro 1 points (+1|-0)

There are solid definitions of gender, the trans lobby just doesn't subscribe to them. I've never understood why so many people say there's no such thing as gender; it's denying the existence of the mechanism of our oppression.

It's basically "that which is associated with one or the other sex", so all the unwritten guidelines about dress, behaviour, character etc people intuit from the local social context of other people.

If they're on about 'gender identity' then again, there is a perfectly reasonable definition, but they reject it because gendered identities are acquired through lived experience; no one is born with one.

But the thing with gender is the concept relies on other people reifying it. You can't use a skirt to signify your womanliness if the people around you don't associate skirts with women. They're requiring you to accept the naturalisation of the stereotype in order to apply it to them. It's commendable that you refuse.