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62 comments

[–] istitchandi1200 [OP] 65 points (+65|-0) Edited

I mean I don't even know what to say about this. I'm trying to fight the good fight, but..... fuck, my dudes. I'm so tired. My posts saying "these are CHILDREN" are getting downvoted (though someone awarded one of my comments, so hey, not EVERYONE has lost their mind yet).

I'm currently arguing a teenager about why a four year old CANNOT fucking be questioning their gender. Yes, this is happening.

EDIT: OH HEY I'VE BEEN BANNED FROM R/BESTOF! message from the mods: transphobia. COOL COOL COOL.

[–] Delicious_Comfort 36 points (+36|-0)

I’d like to say reddit doesn’t mirror the public opinion of the offline world, but then I remember most of the world has been under lockdown and more people have been online than ever. When are we going to reach the tipping point?

[–] worried19 50 points (+50|-0) Edited

I'm avoiding the insanity as much as possible.

After years of denying that anyone was touching kids under the age of 18, now the mainstream media has decided that only mean, nasty Republicans oppose giving sex-change surgeries and irreversible hormones to actual children.

[–] aya62 22 points (+22|-0)

for real, I feel like it's the upside-down! it was always "oh no, no one would trans kids, it's just adults making their adult decisions" and now they're acting like people are transphobic because they think literal minor children should not be given prescription medicine that will leave lasting impacts on their bodies?

and it's like they realized the supposed "epidemic" of trans suicides was the perfect counter-point for them to twist to suit their purposes. "either give kids puberty blockers or they will ~literally~ die" is just gaslighting and abusive. it is SO offensive that they so flippantly throw around suicide as the only other alternative to not getting their way.

[–] worried19 22 points (+22|-0)

It's not even just puberty blockers, which are bad enough, but actual sex-change surgeries!

Apparently liberals have decided that "gender affirming care" (which sounds so nice and innocent) should also include double mastectomies and genital surgeries on minors.

[–] Calico 3 points (+3|-0)

Interesting how much their talking points changed once a new administration eager to pander to trans politics came into power.

[–] Tnetennba 2 points (+2|-0)

Yeah how have people not realized they completely changed their public stance in like 18 months?

So not only is the thing that never happens actually happening, they're now saying it's a GREAT thing!

[–] goatsauce 40 points (+40|-0)

It's not about "little Joe wants to play with dolls" so "society" pushes on them the idea that they are trans.

I grew up with a trans girl OVER THIRTY YEARS AGO. There was no "woke" internet culture. We didn't know trans people even existed. We assumed she was a gay boy and discouraged her from her behavior in public as much as possible. Like, honey, keeping the wearing dresses and high heels and makeup and Paula Abdul dance routines to the confines of your own home, k?

When, in high school, she told her mother, "I'm a girl," it was this light bulb moment for everyone who knew her closely. Of course that's what we've been seeing your whole life! That makes so much sense.

None of us pushed that idea on her because it wasn't an idea we even had. She went on puberty blockers and was allowed socially to live as a girl in rural Ohio twenty years ago. She had some surgery in her 20s, I don't know all the details because that's none of my business.

When you see an actual trans child in real life, none of this concern trolling makes sense. This is not an internet-created phenomenon. These people have always existed. We just never allowed them the freedom to live. That's all they're asking for. This is not different from gay people asking not to be forced to spend their whole lives in the closet. Remember the part where none of that old concern trolling about the gays corrupting children turned out to be true? Because I remember what was said about gay rights back in the day. It sure echoes the same.

Today in "that happened", a very effeminate gay boy was given puberty blockers and cross sex hormones in NINETEEN NINETY. Also, just to double down on the regressive bullshit, dancing to Paula Abdul and wearing dresses around the house just means you're a girl! Girl things! I never did that as a kid, maybe I'm a dude. News to me, but apparently not news to this guy. People didn't ask gay people to stay in the closet because of how they acted or dressed, but because they thought two same sex people having sex was horrifying. We're not forcing anyone into the closet by opposing trans kids, we're mad that they keep insisting that a little boy who likes to dance and sing and wear dresses is therefore a GIRL because those are GIRL things.

[–] Womancup 39 points (+39|-0)

Also, you always see TRAs say it's not about children playing with the wrong toys and then you hear story after story in which children are called trans because of the toys they play with and the colors they like

[–] cuttothechaise 8 points (+8|-0)

This happens ALL THE TIME... in the same breath. Like, do people not remember what they said two sentences ago? Looking at you New York Times.

[–] jelliknight 33 points (+33|-0)

Yeah i rolled my eyes so hard at this im legally blind now.

A) the "EUREKA! HE'S A GIRL! Thats why hes humiliating his family by enjoying slightly effeminate things!"

B) were "puberty blockers" even a thing 25 years ago? I remember the T being added to the LGB about 15 years ago, and it was very emphatically about adult homosexual transgenders (which was the justification for adding it, theyre already in there as gay men anyway). There was no hint of transing tweens with chemo drugs that i can remember.

[–] goatsauce 6 points (+6|-0)

We're supposed to just go with it, right? Oh, this little boy! He's just so GIRLY. We can't get him to tone it down because he's probably going to be a homosexual, but wait! If we just rename him Shirley and shove him in a dress, we've corrected the problem! No longer gay and no longer embarrassing!

I looked it up, and Lupron was approved in 1985 for prostate cancer, and in 1989 for palliative care for advanced prostate cancer, and also for endometriosis, uterine fibroids, and precocious puberty. So it has been around for a very long time, but there's also a long, long history of it causing lasting side effects.

[–] worried19 1 points (+1|-0)

were "puberty blockers" even a thing 25 years ago?

Absolutely not. Not in the United States, anyway. The protocol in 1996 was to hope that kids desisted, not affirm and pump them full of drugs.

Per Wikipedia:

In February 2007, Norman Spack co-founded Boston Children's Hospital's Gender Management Service (GeMS) clinic; it is America's first clinic to treat transgender children.

In 2009, America's professional association of endocrinologists established best practices for transgender children that included prescribing puberty-suppressing drugs to preteens followed by hormone therapy beginning at about age 16.[209] In 2012 the American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry echoed these recommendations.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_transgender_people_in_the_United_States#Health

[–] Hermione 1 points (+1|-0)

How old is Nikki from Nikki Tutorials? Wasn’t Nikki transed as a child?

When did Jazz Jennings come on to the scene?

[–] worried19 1 points (+1|-0)

Jazz came on the national scene in 2007, in the My Secret Self documentary.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJ_BHY5RolA

Nikkie de Jager was born in 1994 and put on hormones at age 14, so that would have been around the year 2008.

[–] aya62 28 points (+28|-0)

I don't get how people can't see the overt stereotypes and sexism that this plays into. What happened to "boys can like pink" and "girls can like trucks" and any mix of gender nonconformity being a normal thing that we were working towards?

TRAs are so regressive and are just actively trying to set back the fight against gender roles. As if returning to antiquated woman=feminine will "validate" their "feelings" of "being a woman" or make it easier for them to "pass", when in reality, they would still remain obvious outliers.

I felt like we were getting to the point where people were accepting the idea that a man could wear makeup or behave in less stereotypically masculine ways and now it's immediately internet-brainwashing that it was a "sign" all along somehow that they're meant to be a woman? As if my womanhood is dependent on how my femininity is expressed?

[–] radicalwoman 16 points (+16|-0) Edited

I'm so glad I grew up in a time where the messaging was you are unique and it's okay to be who you are. You dont need to change to make others happy.

I recall a baseball cheer we used to shout "We dont wear no mini skirts! We just like to slide in dirt!" We were proud to be strong girls.

[–] worried19 25 points (+25|-0)

OP can't even keep their fake story straight. In the first sentence, it's over 30 years ago, and then in the third paragraph, it's 20 years ago.

[–] fireworks 24 points (+24|-0)

None of us pushed that idea on her because it wasn't an idea we even had.

Except for constantly shaming the little boy for embarrassing the family by doing "girl things", reminding him that "normal" boys don't act like him.

Yup. Bet they never called him a "pansy" or "pisswilly" or "mama's boy" or "girly". or any of the other slurs that meant "gay" back then. Nope. No siree bob, none of that. Just charming accepting loving boys and young men, who wouldn't hurt a fly, much less attack their highly non-conforming peer. If there is one thing all boys everywhere do, its raz and take the piss out of each other over every stupid little difference.

[–] Hermione 2 points (+2|-0)

Yeah, people picked on effeminate boys because they were worried about it leading to gay sex. If they weren’t connected nobody would care.

It’s homophobia. They think everything is ok only if the person conforms to a set of gender stereotypes.

[–] VirginiaW 39 points (+39|-0)

I just got into it with a TIM in that post and I went to look at his history. He posted pictures of himself in r/trans surgery. It was heartbreaking. I mean he still looks like a man and he’s spent so much time and money. I can’t continue to argue with him because he’s not well.

How exhausting. The sheer volume of misinformation in that post is just overwhelming. I clicked one reference, the link supposedly showing that transition "vastly reduces the risk of suicide attempts" (last paragraph.)

Link goes to a respondent driven sample survey of 380 trans people who self reported lower frequency of suicidal ideation after transition (among other things). There are so many things wrong with this "study" and it doesn't even come close to supporting their conclusion, I don't even know where to start with that stupidity.

[–] Queequeg 8 points (+8|-0)

Finding, reading and actually understanding studies is a skill. Anyone can google a study, find a title that vaguely fits and link it as "evidence". Research skills are so underestimated. Sorry to sound like a snobby academic but the average joe doesn't have those skills. It took me a while to understand not all studies are equal.

You don't sound like a snobby academic at all. I'll go one step further and and say that most studies are garbage. I come from a hard science so I can spot a bad/useless study a mile away, and I think the vast majority of "studies" you see in epidemiology and the social sciences are basically useless and shouldn't have been bothered with in the first place. They rarely actually demonstrate the conclusions the authors draw from them, let alone the broader assumptions made by media and laypeople. And when a study looks ok to me I still have to rely on experts (who I have deemed trustworthy) in medicine and biology to determine whether or not it's plausible. So I don't know how laypeople manage to parse anything they see. We just don't know even a fraction of what we think we know. So to see confident idiots like this credulously listing off study after study "demonstrating" his ridiculous claims really makes me sad for society and wonder how in the world we've managed to progress as far as we have. Most people don't stand a chance.

[–] GelatinousRube 22 points (+22|-0)

I see the poster who is being applauded has done ten years on reddit. Hmm I wonder if he transitioned before or after joining?

[–] OneStarWolf 18 points (+18|-0)

These people are fucking crazy. Did they not see all the studies and lawsuits coming out of the UK based on children transitioning? Keira Bell?? Do they think that’s all a giant terf smokescreen? Wtf is wrong with these people and their eagerness to medicate children when long term studies have already shown that up to 90% of the time children with dysphoria will desist without any medical intervention.

[–] worried19 24 points (+24|-0)

Americans didn't see it because the mainstream media here purposely blacked it out. News about the Keira Bell ruling was not able to be found for at least 3 days on Google News, and when it finally did appear, it was buried way down. CNN and other liberal media outlets won't cover these types of stories.

[–] MeNsTrUaToR27 8 points (+8|-0)

Theyre pedophiles and they wanna keep as many kids underdeveloped as possible

[–] queryings 16 points (+16|-0) Edited

it’s scary to me to think that i might have transitioned had i been born a few years later (and had parents who would have supported such things). the social pressure to cave to trans ideology is both deeply unsettling and immense.

what will we say to these children in the future? these neutered, permanent children. they will never develop. they will never be able to connect with another person the way they’re being promised they one day can (only in the “correct body”). their sexualities and futures are being stolen from them, and for what?

it hurts my heart because my sexuality was, in a way, also stolen from me. so many things (including CSA and exposure to porn as i was being abused as a prepubescent/early pubescent that led to a porn addiction in my teens/early twenties) have fucked up my own sexuality, sexual responses, attraction—everything. but every now and then i uncover another piece of me, the woman that might have been had i not been abused. every day i work to reclaim my own sexuality. but had i cut myself off from my sexuality by “choice” (quotation marks bc i do not believe a prepubescent child can meaningfully consent to puberty blockers)? if this horrible feeling, this angry and desperate void within me that i am working every day to prune back was actually something i was not only allowed to choose, but encouraged to choose? i genuinely do not think i could survive something like that. and i don’t say that lightly.

our society is encouraging children to cleave themselves in two before they are even finished becoming whole. it destroys me. i don’t know what more to say.

[–] MeNsTrUaToR27 6 points (+6|-0)

Exactly! I'm sorry you were a victim of abuse, I was too, (it wasn't sexual) and I feel a lot of what you described. It's not as simple as people are claiming it is, for kids. You can suffer long term emotional and psychological effects from stuff going haywire during your formative years.

[–] Kcotter7 14 points (+14|-0) Edited

At 7 my daughter refused to wear dresses, quit dancing to play rugby like her brother and ask if we could cut her hair like a boy. All her friends were boys.

I had people suggest maybe she was trans. Would hate to think what would of happened if I ever took her to psychologist at the time.

At 9 she still refuses to wear dresses, has quit rugby to go back to dancing and wants to grow her hair long. Now has a mix of friends.

Kids are too young to have lifelong decisions thrust upon them.

[–] DisastrousSundae 13 points (+13|-0)

Using their logic that children know their gender identity as young as 4 of 5, then there really isn't a reason children shouldn't be given bottom surgery, right? They love to go on and on about how detransitioning is extremely rare and how making them go through the "wrong" puberty is immoral. Why not just give children surgery on their genitals?

I think that is the point we're going to reach. And by the time we get there, we can forget about any meaningful rights for biological women being upheld.

[–] worried19 12 points (+12|-0)

They're already doing vaginoplasties on 15 year olds.

[–] Womancup 13 points (+13|-0)

No, no, no one is doing surgery to minors, you bigot. Also, banning surgery for minors will kill trans kids even though no one is doing it anyway

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