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I'm scrolling through my FB feed this morning and see this ugly mug. I've been a member of the U.S. Green party since 2016 because I refuse to register as a Democrat and it most closely matches my political ideals. It's the first and only party I've been a member of but this is enough to make me un-register.

I can't make out whether the American Green Party has any affiliation with the UK Greens no matter how much I search, but even if not: have they never heard of Aimee Challenor & Co? Are we living in some kind of vacuum where these stories of absurdly corrupt perverts are abusing their power and nobody else knows, or do they just not care?

I thought the Green Party was about eco-socialism... not "affirming gender identity and expression" in their literal platform! When did this happen? Why is 0.6% of the population being given such power and importance? Virtue signaling I suppose but I'm sure it goes deeper than that.

Rant over...for now. It just sucks when all your favorite media outlets and now the very political party you belong to are being overtaken by this cult. At times you have to wonder: are we the baddies?

I'm scrolling through my FB feed this morning and see [this ugly mug] (https://www.facebook.com/GreenPartyUS/photos/a.10154232616844758/10159198480994758/). I've been a member of the U.S. Green party since 2016 because I refuse to register as a Democrat and it most closely matches my political ideals. It's the first and only party I've been a member of but this is enough to make me un-register. I can't make out whether the American Green Party has any affiliation with the UK Greens no matter how much I search, but even if not: have they never heard of Aimee Challenor & Co? Are we living in some kind of vacuum where these stories of absurdly corrupt perverts are abusing their power and nobody else knows, or do they just not care? I thought the Green Party was about eco-socialism... not "affirming gender identity and expression" in their literal platform! When did this happen? Why is 0.6% of the population being given such power and importance? Virtue signaling I suppose but I'm sure it goes deeper than that. Rant over...for now. It just sucks when all your favorite media outlets and now the very political party you belong to are being overtaken by this cult. At times you have to wonder: are we the baddies?

27 comments

[–] basetenprefix 30 points (+30|-0)

are we the baddies?

I really like to live and let people live their lives as they see fit, so long as they're not actively hurting people in the process. Sometimes this thought creeps into my mind because I want to help people who are so disassociated from their own bodies that they feel like an alien trapped inside of a shell. I especially want to help because I've been there. I've had those thoughts and I've had those feelings. For a long time, being against trans was like being against LGB for me; what place did I have to speak on behalf of other's pain and experience, or to deny them of treatment that they said was required?

What it always comes down to though is that the LGB movement genuinely supported loving yourself as you were, that you could be who you are, in the body that you have, loving the people that you do, and that it was OK, that it was innate, that it was normal. Accepting same-sex attraction requires that everyone change absolutely nothing. A woman dating another woman affects no one but the two people in a relationship, unless you're simply morally outraged. The trans lobby instead tells you that if your mind doesn't fit a certain criteria, based on literally anything, then you need to change yourself. It pushes that it's normal to hate your body, and that to love your body, you need medication, surgery, and treatment for life. It normalizes self hate in the guise of self acceptance. On top of that, it requires everyone else to capitulate in both language and actions. Changing how words are used and what they mean, and forcing others to be quiet about their discomfort and needs for safety.

I will never feel wrong about opposing a movement that pushes for the normalization of experimental cosmetic surgery on children and teens. I will never feel wrong about opposing a movement that enforces gender stereotypes. I will never feel wrong about opposing a movement that disregards genuine safeguarding concerns. I will never feel wrong for opposing a movement where any critic or call for discussion is met with overt aggression and threats.

[–] Liz_B_Anne [OP] 12 points (+12|-0)

Excellent points & beautifully said. I guess I was just taken aback when, after expecting the world to finally hit peak trans after the JK Rowling debacle & other high-profile cases of insanity, things seem to be going in the opposite direction under the Biden administration at accelerationist pace. It's dizzying and feels like some kind of psyop. Things are about to get a helluva lot worse before they ever get better :(

[–] basetenprefix 9 points (+9|-0)

I was also expecting more backlash from the J.K. Rowling drama, but I've realized it comes down to two points:

The first point is that society still does not listen to women or take them seriously. We experience this everywhere.

The second point is that the majority of people are well meaning and assume that people are also well meaning and are telling the truth. They don't want to believe or think that predators could use a social movement to lower safeguards and endanger women and children. They want to make everyone happy and feel safe and don't have the time or interest in looking any deeper than that.

Who knows what will happen, but I suspect it won't stop until a generation of kids have gone through it and come out of it with massive regrets and medical issues, or too many trans are forced to desist or die from complications.

[–] ditchwitch 7 points (+7|-0)

I wish we could favorite/save comments, this is exactly how I feel written way better & more succinctly than I ever could.

[–] Srfthrowaway 2 points (+2|-0) Edited

I love when that happens on Ovarit. And this is definitely a comment worth saving.

[–] Researcher1536 21 points (+21|-0)

I do not wonder if we're the baddies. They left us; we didn't change our values.

[–] Luckystar 15 points (+15|-0) Edited

Did you happen to take a screenshot? The page is down now, and archive.is doesn't have an archive either.

e: Also, I spent over a year contemplating "Are we the baddies?". I listened to EVERY angle of this debate, including super pro TQ ones like the transgender education FB group, people like Riley Dennis and Contrapoints, etc etc. I came to the conclusion that we are not -- we are opposing misogyny and homophobia the same way we always have. However, I won't tell you what to think. I'd suggest if you feel uncomfortable, to do the same. Listen to the "other side". Really immerse yourself in their ways of thinking. Ask yourself if it seems right or not.

This issue is like no other I can think of in that there is social pressure on progressive women to support regressive ideals. You have to examine ALL the evidence from every side and then draw your own conclusions, without worrying about "what will other people think" -- listen to your heart. Do you feel that this is right? If society wasn't judgmental, how would you see this issue? This is the best way to move forward with a clear conscience.

[–] Liz_B_Anne [OP] 7 points (+7|-0) Edited

WEIRD! Here it is on imgur. Hope it works now.

I don't actually think we're wrong or bad but it does get overwhelming when the whole world seems so adamant about this stuff to the point that only conservatives seem to be on our side. I don't want to be one of those people who gets closed minded in my old age, but GAWD does this shit strike me as offensively dangerous and idiotic. Regressive too. As a lesbian I'm disgusted by the thought of men taking away the few spaces I have left (or had) and see the greater harm it's done to women as well. So yeah, not a fan. And it just seems like such a stupid distraction when the world is literally cooking and people are marching in the streets every other week for basic things like not being killed by cops. 400,000 new cases of COVID are popping up in India per DAY, but this is the issue the media and political parties choose to hone in on?

First world BS and tbh, our country doesn't have time for it either because we're not all that first-world anymore.

Male sexual demands are placed above all else.

How many elderly nursing home patients get molested by alleged caregivers every day? Men can't even look at a frail elderly woman, often confined to her bed, sadly needing someone to change her adult diaper, without thinking "oooh, I could stick it in her and she wouldn't be able to stop me or tell anyone. Yes!"

We could have ten minutes left before an asteroid was going to hit earth and end it all, and men would be trying to stick their dicks in something for one last orgasm, guaranteed. And many would want to try something they hadn't before, like a child or a dog, one last porn-sick thrill.

Now that I realize that's how the world is, it all makes sense why the Greens are making Trans Demands a priority, why Oreo cookies is tweeting out pro-trans crap, why Biden's Day One EO was to delete women on behalf of male sexual fetish --- this is the top priority in the world. All else exists solely to facilitate it.

[–] Srfthrowaway 3 points (+3|-0)

I don't get it. Do men in general have no joy in life besides orgasms? I mean yeah they're great and all but I get lots of joy out of other things too.

[–] bio-woman 2 points (+2|-0)

I know that in Australia, the green party through their policies is the most anti-woman party there is (excepting their stance on access to abortion). Conservatives give women a better deal. Looks like it's the same all over.

[–] ellienoire 2 points (+2|-0)

Conservatives are far more anti woman in the US, likely due to their evangelist influence.

[–] Liz_B_Anne [OP] 0 points (+0|-0)

Ugh. How disheartening. Looks like I'm about to be politically homeless/unregistered with any party.

[–] Ishahchai 5 points (+5|-0)

Listen to the "other side". Really immerse yourself in their ways of thinking. Ask yourself if it seems right or not.

This is such a huge difference between radfems and TRAs. We’re so intimately aware of the “other side’s” logic and reasoning, while they’re all “block and stay safe,” which is the digital equivalent of sticking their fingers in their ears and yelling “La la la, can’t hear you.” You don’t need to suppress opposing opinions when you are, in fact, “on the right side of history.”

And that is how I know we’re not the baddies.

[–] RadfemBlack 2 points (+2|-0)

Truth. I was just thinking about this today. I see radfems encouraging each other to read shit like Whipping Girl by Julia Serrano, a TiM and TRA, so we can understand the arguments. On the other hand Philosophy Tube said he’d never read any “Terf shit” when asked about what he refuses to read.

[–] Ishahchai 4 points (+4|-0)

I do not enjoy reading the AGP word-vomit from Andrea Long Chu, but I can’t refute queer theory if I don’t know queer theory. Radfems do encourage critical thinking, not just on trans issues, but on everything.

[–] LOriginedumonde 12 points (+12|-0) Edited

are we the baddies?

I think that this is a healthy question to ask and I’m sure that almost everyone here has asked themselves the same question. I know I have many times. Just like @Luckystar, I’ve taken quite a bit of time to immerse myself in TRA’s ways of thinking and have analyzed every angel of both sides arguments. I tried so hard to see what everyone else was seeing but all I saw was thinly veiled misogyny and homophobia. @Radfemblack once compared it to how the Nazi’s LARPed as socialist to gain support. I think we’re all used to a certain level of comfort in the western world, and because of that we don’t want to believe that it could be so easy for a regressive and oppressive ideology to masquerade itself as a human rights movement and completely capture all institutions and the hearts and minds of people who genuinely want to do good. It’s sinister as fuck and that’s why I have patience for the regular people who are blindly supporting this.

I have never seen someone who holds our beliefs send death, rape, and threats of violence to people who do not share the same beliefs; however, I’ve seen hundreds if not thousands of TRAs do exactly that and I’ve seen even more people tolerate it for the “cause.” Ive never seen anyone on our side censor or deplatform for not sharing the same beliefs. I have seen people on our side beg to just have a civil conversation about safeguarding, and I’ve seen people on the other side flat out refuse because the safety of women and children does not matter.

The trans ideology eggs on the suicides and suffering of vulnerable people to legitimize their cause. Their language promotes suicide contagion and is the exact opposite of the established language guidelines for suicide prevention. They misconstrue suicide statistics and flat out lie about an epidemic of trans murders. They tell vulnerable people that everyone hates them and wants them dead in order to terrify them and turn them against society. They teach vulnerable adults and children to hate their bodies and tell them that they cannot be their “true self” without becoming a life long medical patient. They promote dangerous experiential “treatments” and have made it impossible for anyone to seek alternative treatment that doesn’t require extreme and invasive interventions.

I could go on and on but my point is that I know in my heart that we are not the baddies. I also know that there are some people who are baddies who use our cause as a shield for their bigotry but I believe that there are very few, if any, of those people on this platform. I encourage you to research these things on your own and come to your own conclusions. I truly believe that the trans/gender ideology is a backlash to the advancement of women’s and LGB rights. Nothing is won that easy and we still have a lot of progress to make. I’m not sure how old you are but I’m in my early 20’s and I see how easy it is for the younger generations of women to feel like our war is won. When my mother was a girl women had just gained the right to have their own bank accounts. I have vintage clothing that’s older than the women’s rights movement that still looks brand new. Just like racism, that shit doesn’t go away within a few generations after the passing of laws. The mindset lives on and we still have a lot of work to do.

[–] Lorena_wood 6 points (+6|-0)

I agree that it's a healthy question to ask - I very much doubt TRAs are asking it. It's good to evaluate every once in a while to make sure you believe you are doing the right thing. I think it says a lot that so many gender critical people were once sympathetic to the trans rights movements. We are where we are today because we are not afraid to change when we realise we were wrong. (that's how is was for me anyway)

[–] SarahTheGreen 9 points (+9|-0)

I doubt the US Greens have ever heard of Challenor, even after the reddit issue came up.

In Canada the new leader of the federal Greens wants to abolish the police, or defund them, or something. They are sooo woke.

[–] Srfthrowaway 3 points (+3|-0)

Yeah I saw that about the greens here (Canada). That's nice, what do they propose we replace them with? Sigh.

[–] IronicWolf 7 points (+7|-0)

Not even the UK Greens (or any other party) have learnt from the Challenor scandal. The Greens are now full on TRA and I can’t remember the last time I heard them speak about the climate or animal welfare.

[–] dixiechick547 5 points (+5|-0)

Really baffling that the Greens support an ideology that is so contrary to nature or hell, greenness. They never seem to talk about anything other than trans.

[–] Srfthrowaway 2 points (+2|-0)

That's true, it's not remotely green, with its reliance on drugs and such.

When I was younger I never understood why the UK Green party and Liberal Democrats got so few votes compared to the other parties. But when I read about the Challenor nonsense it does start to make sense. Do they actually care about running a country well, or are they just pandering to fringe groups whose goals are unachievable or poorly thought out?

Same here with the Australian Greens. I used to vote for them occasionally, but now I wouldn’t touch them with the proverbial ten-foot pole.