57

I just watched Ellen/Elliot Page's recent interview with Oprah today...here are my takeaways.

The level of deep-seeded internalized misogyny struck me most. It's almost painful to watch. I sympathize with her hearing her speak. Knowing the pressure on regular women to look sexually pleasing and attractive to men, I can't imagine how that pressure would be multiplied for women in the public eye. It almost makes sense - the only way Ellen Page could avoid being sexualized and ridiculed for her looks was to identify as a man.

A couple of other things:

  1. She looks sick. Her voice is quivering. It's almost tough to see.
  2. Disappointingly no questions on how she knew she was a man other than her wanting short hair and having male friends as a kid. Felt like pandering.
  3. The term "gender euphoria"... she uses this a lot. This is a really weird way to characterize gender dysphoria.
  4. Her lack of confidence - she seems scared and uncomfortable the entire time.

I just felt bad for her. It seems like her life in hollywood really made her feel a lack of agency. I simultaneously wanted to hug her and shake her and scream "YOU CAN WEAR A SUIT TO THE OSCARS THATS FINE!"

Edit - grammar

I just watched Ellen/Elliot Page's recent interview with Oprah today...here are my takeaways. The level of deep-seeded internalized misogyny struck me most. It's almost painful to watch. I sympathize with her hearing her speak. Knowing the pressure on regular women to look sexually pleasing and attractive to men, I can't imagine how that pressure would be multiplied for women in the public eye. It almost makes sense - the only way Ellen Page could avoid being sexualized and ridiculed for her looks was to identify as a man. A couple of other things: 1. She looks sick. Her voice is quivering. It's almost tough to see. 2. Disappointingly no questions on how she knew she was a man other than her wanting short hair and having male friends as a kid. Felt like pandering. 3. The term "gender euphoria"... she uses this a lot. This is a really weird way to characterize gender dysphoria. 4. Her lack of confidence - she seems scared and uncomfortable the entire time. I just felt bad for her. It seems like her life in hollywood really made her feel a lack of agency. I simultaneously wanted to hug her and shake her and scream "YOU CAN WEAR A SUIT TO THE OSCARS THATS FINE!" Edit - grammar

81 comments

[–] Ishahchai 59 points (+59|-0)

Gender euphoria for females is being treated like a whole human. You know, like a man.

Basic human dignity wouldn’t feel euphoric if women were treated like people. Women pretending they’re men because they like being respected only reinforces the notion that only men deserve respect.

[–] TheEthicalHedonist 45 points (+45|-0) Edited

According to Scott Newgent (TIF) on Twitter, the voice quivering is a side effect of taking T. Scott says it’s like compressing male puberty voice changes that take a couple years to 6 months. Scott reported that it feels like a 6-month long painful sore throat and explains Ellen’s manner of speaking in the interview.

https://twitter.com/scottnewgent/status/1388543916060905473?s=21

[–] Bazzaar 44 points (+44|-0)

That's awful. Almost like you're not supposed to be putting that shit in your body!/s

[–] Boudicaea 18 points (+18|-0)

Is Ellen on T? I figured she would avoid it to preserve her look for future roles. She's going to have way worse problems than a shaky voice if she started on that poison....

[–] Jazman1867 19 points (+19|-0)

As a small women her acting career is basically done as she can't pass for a teen/early 20 year old anymore.

[–] goatsauce 3 points (+3|-0)

Yeah, she still has an active role on Umbrella Academy playing Vanya. Unless they transition her character for no particular reason, they're going to have a weird time explaining why Vanya suddenly sounds like she's been smoking 20 packs a day in the interim between seasons.

[–] questioningtw 3 points (+3|-0)

I have decided I am not going to watch the show if they trans Vanya. This might sound mean, but I think it is ridiculus that she wasn't let go after transitioning. Why in the world should the character get a re write? Vanya is a woman, and shouldn't be made a man for no reason.

[–] Boudicaea 1 points (+1|-0) Edited

They ARE transing her character!! Which really annoys me. I liked that show. I have no idea how they're going to bootstrap that into the storyline. Especially when it seemed she was in a better place at the end of last season-- like finally comfortable in her own skin. How do they tack on a trans storyline onto that??

Edit: Leaving up for context, but I can't find a source for my belief that they are going to turn Vanya trans. I think I read it somewhere. But I could be wrong. Mea culpa!

[–] immersang 13 points (+13|-0)

Interesting also that Scott uses "her", not "his".

I mean, I knew that Scott's one of the most "common sense" TIFs, but still. This is surprising.

[–] worried19 0 points (+0|-0)

Scott's pretty GC, or at least seems to be. I think Scott would probably detransition if their own process hadn't gone so far medically.

[–] immersang 1 points (+1|-0)

Yeah, that's also my impression (would probably detransition). And Scott's actually one of the few TIFs that could fool me completely, even on video.

[–] questioningtw 2 points (+2|-0)

Wow, because she is still on the Umbrella Acadamy I assumed she wasn't even taking T. It iis disturbing that only a few trans people are talking about the extreme downsides of transitioning and are routinly insulted for doing so.

[–] Hollyhock 39 points (+39|-0) Edited

My mother instincts went on overdrive watching her talk to Oprah - she's a very vulnerable woman who has been taken in by lies/ideology and irresponsible medicine.Elliot is clearly a distressed individual and probably has suffered a lot of mental health issues for a long time, whether diagnosed or not...she looks and talks nothing like a man, but rather a very troubled woman who I just wanted to hug and say, "It's ok, let me help you. Fuck dresses and heels, and fuck objectification of women. Let's get you real help." Her distress with her naked breasts and being made to dress up in sexualized clothing makes me wonder if she wasn't been sexually abused or raped at a young age.

Yeah the hatred of her body was really jarring for me. I struggled with an eating disorder for many years and I can totally relate to that. You just get so sick of being commodified that you feel like you hate your body. It makes you feel so weak and vulnerable.

[–] Bogos 7 points (+7|-0)

Most of us were, and this is particularly true in Hollywood. So safe to say probably yes

[–] platypus 0 points (+0|-0)

makes me wonder if she wasn't been sexually abused or raped at a young age.'

Page starred in an American Crime at the tender age 20. She enacted the true story a 16 year old girl who was horribly abused to death, known as one of the most cruel and brutal murders to ever take place.
She's done a lot of very traumatic roles. Teen pregnancy and abortion (Juno), rape (Into the Forest), pedophilia (Hard Candy and Super), substance abuse and extreme poverty (Trailer Park Boys)... she was in Trailer Park Boys at just 15.

A former Disney star named Alyson Stoner recently spoke out about the trauma she developed as a young girl from auditioning for sexually violent roles. I think it's time we started considering the toll this kind of trauma reenactment takes on the psyche, especially for very young actors. Of course Page may have been directly abused herself, but even if she hadn't, I wouldn't be surprised if she developed some kind of CPTSD simply from living in the headspace of such violently troubled characters.

[–] worried19 38 points (+38|-0)

I would assume Oprah's audience is mostly older women. Surely some of them have noticed how horrible Page looks? We can't be the only ones discussing this. Are any of them leaving comments about this online? Seeing Page's condition, I find it hard to believe that all the reactions are positive.

[–] Veneficca 33 points (+33|-0)

My friend - straight, 50, not terribly political - said she felt like she was watching one of those child soldier-boys you see in some countries, trying to be brave and stoic at 12 years old while scared as hell. She asked me "do they all look like that?" (She doesn't know a single trans person.) It roused her maternal instincts, it was like hearing her talk about a child. I kept reminding her Page is in her 30s. It definitely wasn't what she expected.

[–] Jack_the_Lass 11 points (+11|-0)

Page definitely came across as child like in the interview snippets I saw.

[–] Hollyhock 25 points (+25|-0) Edited

I'm a middle-aged mother of girls and it's so obvious Elliot is a very vulnerable woman who needs help.

[–] immersang 12 points (+12|-0)

Not older women, but for what it's worth: they discussed the interview on a message board mostly populated by gay men that I sometimes lurk in, and many of them commented the same thing. How bad / sick she looks.

[–] Whatshername TheySeeMeRowling 5 points (+5|-0)

I've seen comments on fb talking about how sick she looks.

[–] questioningtw 4 points (+4|-0)

Over on Gencyn there where a few people saying she looked sick, they were quickly shut down by the mods though that insisted she looked handsome. It is creepy how deep they are in preventing wrongthink.

[–] crispycherrypie 33 points (+33|-0)

I’m honestly terrified she’s going to harm herself every time she comes up. She doesn’t look or act well, but heaven forbid we worry about mental health in America.

[–] Srfthrowaway 23 points (+23|-0)

I would say she already has harmed herself. Mastectomy is not a normal treatment for anxiety.

[–] crispycherrypie 3 points (+3|-0)

You're right.

I'm very concerned her next step will be attempted suicide. I hope I'm wrong.

[–] butchnerd 33 points (+33|-0)

Same... it's all so tough to watch.

I know she was never the biggest star in the world... but it's astonishing to me how lost and lonely she seems! I am aware that she and her wife separated, which must be really hard, but like... where were/are your friends? Haven't you met any other lesbians? How are you so well-known but act like you've never attended a single therapy session in your life? It's so sad and kinda infuriating at the same time.

I simultaneously hug her and shake her and scream "YOU CAN WEAR A SUIT TO THE OSCARS THATS FINE!"

Yes, this.

[–] Jack_the_Lass 23 points (+23|-0) Edited

She says in the interview that she came to the realization she's a he after spending a bunch of time in solitude in Nova Scotia during the pandemic. I don't think that kind of solitude is good for anyone and I have voiced this concern about other friends during the pandemic.

I actually first realized this almost 10 years ago when a close friend of mine decided to go off and live in a yurt in the woods with very little human contact. When I talked to him again he really had gone just kind of (to put it nicely) loony. To be alone in your own head for that amount of time is dangerous. You're your own echo chamber, you get too self involved in your own thoughts.

A friend and colleague of my wife's who lives alone pretty much cut himself off from everyone during the pandemic. Recently (post vaccinations) he came over to have a drink with my wife and confessed to her he thinks he may "come out" as non-binary after the pandemic. How did he come to that conclusion? Watching Tiktok. (He's in his 30s) My wife, to her credit, really pressed him on what that means and he admitted it means shit like lipstick and nail polish. She told him how and why she thinks such gender stereotypes are extremely regressive and why we, as lesbians, are so deeply offended by it. She also told him about the transing of gay people in Iran, which he had no idea about.

Anyways, TLDR; its not good or healthy to be in that kind of solitude when you are not mentally well.

[–] immersang 15 points (+15|-0)

She says in the interview that she came to the realization she's a he after spending a bunch of time in solitude in Nova Scotia during the pandemic.

Wait a minute....so, she came to that conclusion during the pandemic, and she has already cut her breasts off? Holy shit. This is worse than I thought. How can any medical professional do this in good conscience?!

Because even though COVID might feel like a life time, it has only been a little over a year. That's insane.

She’s probably got a therapist giving her gender-affirming care...

[–] butchnerd 19 points (+19|-0) Edited

Yeah, probably... which means she still hasn't been to a therapist who actually helps her feel better. :(

[–] XX_Power surf and terf 11 points (+11|-0)

I can only imagine how impossible it must be to be an honest therapist with celebrities like her, who are used to yes men since they were children. I feel that if a therapist tried to actually help her instead of giving her injections and beauty surgery, she might just dump them and publicly call them a transphobe. I know i wouldn't touch that with a 10 foot pole.

[–] tamata 🍅 15 points (+15|-0)

I could be wrong but it's my understanding that it's a common experience for people when they reach a certain level of fame, it becomes extremely difficult to find people that you (1) like, (2) understand, and (3) trust. It seems like that's why the celebrities who are usually more well-off in the long term are the ones who have always had their family and (pre-fame) close friends looking out for and grounding them. (As opposed to managers and lawyers and whatnot.)

In Elliot's case, Hollywood is a big enough enemy on its own, so the fact that she took on the TRA monster along with it, well... I simply cannot imagine that she is mentally or emotionally well adjusted and dearly hope that she has people who will pick her up off the ground when the cameras aren't rolling anymore.

[–] butchnerd 13 points (+13|-0)

You're certainly right, the fame must make it hard to trust people... I just hoped she had someone, anyone around her.

I didn't watch the entire Oprah interview... but did she mention her family at all? Mom, Dad, anybody? I guess there's a chance they never really accepted her for being a lesbian, IDK :(

On a random but slightly funny note, I checked her Wikipedia page and found this is still listed as her official website:

https://ellen.page/

Everything there still says Ellen... definitely bittersweet to look at now.

[–] butchnerd 9 points (+9|-0)

Replying to my own post because I'm stuck on this thought... Ellen Page went through with a double mastectomy before she could be bothered to get her personal website updated. Now that's mental illness, luv.

[–] questioningtw 2 points (+2|-0)

That is the way I feel too! It bothers the hell out of me that people would rather cheer for someone to transition, even though it is obviously affecting their health, instead of supporting their choice to just wear suits instead of dresses.

[–] Griffxx 25 points (+25|-0)

I think she's always had low self-esteem and a sense of selfloathing. The inability to vocally articulate has been a problem on film sets. She's completely prepared, but would talk very low. Had to receive notes to about it.

The "Gender Euphoria" is a TRA talking point. Once you are out and are medically the dysphoria disappears.

I wish her well, but I don't think it's over. We know that child stars are sometime sexually assaulted by some of these studio executives and producers. I would put forth Lindsay Lohan as the poster child. I think there's something else going on. Time reveal all things.

[–] Stealthygal 22 points (+22|-0)

The thing that struck me in one of the print articles I read where she was lauding her top surgery was that it suggested less a sense of manliness, more a return to preadolescent times. She talked about looking in the mirror topless and thinking "There you are". I wondered, is "you" a man in his 30s or the person you saw before puberty changed your body and brought unwanted attention?

As far as I'm concerned, if an adult woman hates her breasts so much she wants to remove them well ok. But it's cosmetic surgery, an adult choice, not something to offer teens.

Young and old women with very large breasts that physically harm our wellbeing struggle to get reductions and it's not fair that people are offered funded matectomies because they are "male". I bet men with gynaecomastia also have to wait.

[–] Srfthrowaway 8 points (+8|-0)

Total mastectomy is major surgery and imo should not be done for mental health reasons.

Reduction mammoplasty, OTOH, should be funded across the board. Any decent surgeon knows what to put on the forms to get it covered too.

And you're right, men with gynecomastia have to wait, and generally it's not covered at all.

[–] Griffxx 4 points (+4|-0)

That's why I initially thought it was BID. Later found out she was also taking T.

I think you are right, about the pre adolescence thing. I think, for her frame and height (5'1") her breast were considered large.

Yeah it did seem like she has some unprocessed trauma

[–] Griffxx 8 points (+9|-1)

That hair cut. Just nooo.

[–] butchnerd 10 points (+11|-1)

The atrocious hair is almost a bigger red flag than her sad, dull eyes. I feel like she's getting punk'd by her stylist... Literally going to Great Clips would have been better.

I can't place where I've seen it before, I'm sure I have. It's just such a baffling choice

[–] Jack_the_Lass 7 points (+7|-0)

child stars are sometime sexually assaulted

i think her first foray into the public light was Trailer Park Boys, which I loved back in the 00s but admittedly was a testosterone soaked endeavor.

Elliot looks beyond anorexic and terrified in this interview, I can't bring myself to watch the whole thing.

[–] Mika17 13 points (+13|-0)

I was going to say she looks terribly underweight and malnourished.... Eating disorder with an ongoing midlife crisis?

[–] Jack_the_Lass 6 points (+6|-0)

midlife

oh lord she's too young for that, i hope!

[–] pennygadget 5 points (+5|-0)

oh lord she's too young for that, i hope!

She's a woman in Hollywood. By the entertainment industry's metrics, she's ancient

[–] Hollyhock 0 points (+0|-0)

she could also be going through early menopause - some women experience this in their thirties.

[–] Jack_the_Lass 14 points (+14|-0)

I've only seen photos of her recently and I agree she looks really unhealthy. Just way to thin for starters. Also not a glint of joy or happiness in there.

[–] worried19 17 points (+17|-0)

That's the worst thing, the unhappiness. If this is gender euphoria, where's the euphoria? Page looks sick and miserable.

I'm not just saying this because I disagree with Page transitioning. Most newly out trans people don't seem this depressed. Testosterone and top surgery usually gives people a high, at least at first. If Page looks so bad just starting the process, I can only assume worse things are in store down the road.

[–] Jack_the_Lass 9 points (+9|-0)

I watched some clips of the interview after I made that comment (I couldn't find the full interview on youtube) and it's pretty much the same in the person. She smiles from time to time and presents a sort of facade of gender euphoria but I just don't believe it. She seems physically ill, tired, the smiles seem forced.

I have absolutely no ill will towards her and I want her to be happy and healthy. But it breaks my heart that the latent misogyny in our culture runs so deep that people feel they have to go through what she is going through. Its just so deeply sad.

[–] RawSienna 3 points (+3|-0)

Even if “gender euphoria” (🤮) exists, euphoria is transient. It’s not a steady state.

[–] Mother-of-Rats 12 points (+12|-0)

The timing of her “coming out” as a transman was sus at best. Her marriage broke up a few months prior then suddenly she’s decided she’s actually a man.

Armchair psychologist here saying that I think she “came out” as a transman because she was having trouble coming to grips with the separation from her wife. Her wife is a lesbian so if she (Ellen) is actually a man then it totes explains why her wife left. It’s not because there were issues in the relationship that needed work, it was because her wife is a lesbian but SHE is actually a HE so her wife really had no choice but to leave. It’s sad no matter how you slice it.

If she wasn’t throwing other women under the bus and advocating for surgically harming young women I’d feel sorry for her. The thing is, she’s rich and famous. Google is free she very easily could have looked into the actual side effects of “transitioning” and could have afforded a good therapist to help with her difficulty dealing with her marriage problems.

[–] Srfthrowaway 15 points (+15|-0)

The timing of her “coming out” as a transman was sus at best.

We can never forget that is was the same day as Keira Bell's ruling. A few hours later. That is not coincidental.

[–] RawSienna 1 points (+1|-0) Edited

Part of me thinks some sick fuck wealthy TIM or TIM-adjacent Hollywood big man paid her to do this, and timed it to overshadow K.Bell. The ultimate distraction publicity stunt, paid in blood by an unwell woman.

[–] worried19 0 points (+0|-0)

It shocks me that she has no sympathy for Keira, who was a 14 year old child when the whole transition process started. No feeling of solidarity with another young lesbian who has suffered.

[–] immersang 11 points (+11|-0) Edited

If she wasn’t throwing other women under the bus and advocating for surgically harming young women I’d feel sorry for her. The thing is, she’s rich and famous. Google is free she very easily could have looked into the actual side effects of “transitioning” and could have afforded a good therapist to help with her difficulty dealing with her marriage problems.

This 100%.

I'm done with sympathizing with women (no matter if TIFs or handmaidens) who decide to handle their own issues by throwing other women under the bus. (Yes, feminism is for them, too, and when I fight for women's rights, that of course includes them. But I don't have the capacity for feeling sorry for them anymore.)

I'm in this boat too. Part of me feels like I should be understanding and sympathetic but the other part of me is livid at the example she is setting for young lesbians. She is effectively reaffirming to them that if they are attracted to women and don't enjoy stereotypical feminine things then they must be a man.

[–] Mikkal 5 points (+5|-0) Edited

Gender Euphoria originated as an explanation for Autogynophillia - men who don't have dysphoria, but get sexually aroused by imagining themself as a woman. When you read "Gender Euphoria" keep in mind it means "I am sexually excited by this". It's part of the "Tucute/egg_irl" community. (Tucute: Too cute not to transition - the people who argue medical transition should be available and covered to anyone who requests it)

I don't think E Page knows that's what it means. She is arguing she has dysphoria and needs to transition. Euphoria is the argument of people who don't have dysphoria. I don't even think of it as a mainstream term, I think of it as a term groomers use to convince people they are trans.

Load more (3 comments)