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The modern conflict between gender theory (the idea of a female soul trapped in a male body, and vice-versa) and homosexuals is well known, and we can point to many examples of homophobia in the wild among the 'queer' who have no respect for us, and among the many attempts to pathologize and TELL US that if we are not feminine enough, we are not really women. And likewise with the conflation of hypermasculinity and maleness.

The origin of the latter is firmly rooted in homophobic theories of psychology of the past. When it was popularly assumed by everyone that homosexuality was a disease and the psychologists would study us for signs of pathology, what they found were signs of non-conformity. Homosexuality, transsexualism (desire to live as the opposite sex), transgenderism (belief in a gender soul and other delusions) and transvetism (wearing opposite sex clothing), and fetishism were conflated, and all of these were viewed equally as defective.

The effort continues, nevertheless, to find that homosexual defect. Now they look in genes, they look in brain scans, they look in fetal development. Unable to find proof, they fake it. When their gender "treatments" of are found to have no therapeutic benefit, they suppress and deflect.

Homosexuality is still being pathologized. The pathology just has a new name. It's also a pathologizing that denies itself, both claiming that we need to be treated to live our best lives and claiming that we are not defective, though of course both cannot be true. The pathologizing is just buried now. But, increasingly we see the signs of it as the believers look on suspiciously at those gay men and lesbians who don't embrace this new medical model, who do not adopt a new label that signifies acceptance of the model. The unique targeting of gay men and lesbians begins to make sense, when we recognize the powerful influence that stigma from psychology has had on us for over a century.

The modern conflict between gender theory (the idea of a female soul trapped in a male body, and vice-versa) and homosexuals is well known, and we can point to many examples of homophobia in the wild among the 'queer' who have no respect for us, and among the many attempts to pathologize and TELL US that if we are not feminine enough, we are not really women. And likewise with the conflation of hypermasculinity and maleness. The origin of the latter is firmly rooted in homophobic theories of psychology of the past. When it was popularly assumed by everyone that homosexuality was a disease and the psychologists would study us for signs of pathology, what they found were signs of non-conformity. Homosexuality, transsexualism (desire to live as the opposite sex), transgenderism (belief in a gender soul and other delusions) and transvetism (wearing opposite sex clothing), and fetishism were conflated, and all of these were [viewed equally as defective](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_inversion_(sexology)). The effort continues, nevertheless, to find that homosexual defect. Now they look in genes, they look in brain scans, they look in fetal development. Unable to find proof, they fake it. When their gender "treatments" of are found to have no therapeutic benefit, they suppress and deflect. Homosexuality is still being pathologized. The pathology just has a new name. It's also a pathologizing that denies itself, both claiming that we need to be treated to live our best lives and claiming that we are not defective, though of course both cannot be true. The pathologizing is just buried now. But, increasingly we see the signs of it as the believers look on suspiciously at those gay men and lesbians who don't embrace this new medical model, who do not adopt a new label that signifies acceptance of the model. The unique targeting of gay men and lesbians begins to make sense, when we recognize the powerful influence that stigma from psychology has had on us for over a century.

11 comments

[–] BlackCirce pain clare jones 25 points (+25|-0)

Yes isn’t it interesting that the most “inverted” gay men and lesbians are the ones targeted for gender intervention? The more feminine a gay man is or the more masculine a lesbian woman is the more they supposedly need and require hormones and surgery and to “pass” as the opposite sex. And everyone is going along with it as if it’s not obviously eugenics to remove gender nonconformity and homosexuality from the population.

It's also a pathologizing that denies itself, both claiming that we need to be treated to live our best lives and claiming that we are not defective, though of course both cannot be true.

This is the part that makes me want to scream. “Protect trans kids” by castrating them. WHAT? It doesn’t make sense. How about we protect butch lesbian girls by creating a supportive environment with role models, education and acceptance? In what universe does providing a mastectomy to a healthy young woman constitute protection? That’s not protection it’s abuse.

If a masculine presenting girl says “I hate myself I want to be a man” how is saying to her “yes you’re right, you were born wrong” a therapeutic or caring response? It’s not. Something better would be “You know there are other girls who felt this way and they grew up to be brilliant women. Let’s talk about what’s bothering you.” Where’s the educational materials to guide young lesbians? Who is defending the lesbian community?

Another greats response is to ask simply “Why?” But that’s illegal! You can’t go around asking children why they hate their bodies! They might tell you they’re gay! Then you’d have to write that down and there would be a record of therapists referring gay and lesbian kids for chemical castration and breast amputation.

If a masculine presenting girl says “I hate myself I want to be a man” how is saying to her “yes you’re right, you were born wrong” a therapeutic or caring response? It’s not.

You are attracted to other females? You're uncomfortable being a female? Well we just need to get you a full body transplant. That's a totally normal, healthy, and medically do-able way to deal with it. /s

There's always been a war on lesbians. Men can't handle women being happy without men.

[–] Tesserae_Tali HERetic 6 points (+6|-0)

I agree with this so much. When I have these discussions, I also try to emphasize that sex change is not actually possible. If there were a magic spell that could transform girls into boys, it would still be sad and sexist to use that spell on self-hating gender non-conforming girls, but that spell doesn’t exist. FtM transition doesn't create boys; it creates girls with extreme body modifications, who will then go through life burdened with the associated risks to mental and physical health.

[–] questioningtw 2 points (+2|-0)

Apparently, people always want to take the path of least resistance, and this is totally normal and ok! Why change society for the better, when you can just make GNC boys girls, and GNC girls boys! internally screams

[–] XX_Power surf and terf 5 points (+5|-0)

So what i don't get is: the original "trans" were gay cross dressing men, correct? So, did they date other gay men? Were gay men somehow okay with gynecomastia and the inverted penis surgery? What about the original TIFs, did they even exist back then? Who did they date?

[–] Griffxx 5 points (+5|-0)

No there weren't TIFs. But TIFs have gone back in history and transmanned and Transmasc NB-ed Hard butches, the butches who were sometimes referred as he/him along with she/her and had male nicknames as part of Butch Culture. But they have Gay men counterparts use to call each other she/her and Judy/Mary as part of femme Gay men Culture.

But their have been a clear cut case of a woman who claimed she actually felt she was man. Was wearing men's clothes. She came to the attention of authorities at Ellis Island, because she was an Italian immigrant newly landed. So she had to explain herself to them.

The transing and Queering posthumously Lesbians and Gay men has been thoroughly bankrupt practice.

[–] ProxyMusic 4 points (+5|-1) Edited

So what i don't get is: the original "trans" were gay cross dressing men, correct?

No, the majority of "trans" - including the old school "transsexuals" - have always been heterosexual cross-dressing men with the male fetish now known as autogynephilia (AGP).

The idea of "female brian in a male body" and vice a versa is a notion invented by men, and they came up with it for a couple of reasons. One reason was to "explain," pathologize and do away with homosexuality - specifically or mainly male homosexuality - by separating out boys whose behavior in childhood indicated to them that said boys might possibly grow up to be gay, and setting them on a life path of embracing and mimicking the strict yet most superficial sex stereotypes associated with the opposite sex and making concerted attempts to change the appearance of their bodies to resemble facsimiles of women.

But another main reason that men came up with the idea of "female brain in a male body" is that it's an idea that also serves the interests of heterosexual men with autogynephilia - who have always been the majority of "MtF transsexuals" just as they are the majority of "transwomen" today.

IMO, what's caused the idea of "female brain in a male body" to catch on and become widely embraced by/in Western culture as a whole - and in a relatively short span of time - is that it benefits this much larger and more powerful group of heterosexual men with AGP - who, after all, have always been the drivers of the trans movement, be it transsexualism or transgenderism.

Similarly, IMO a main reason that so many people in the 21st century have suddenly gone hog-wild in their efforts to adopt, enforce and normalize notions and standards of "femininity" and "masculinity" that are more far regressive and rigid than they were in the 1950s is coz it serves the interests of AGP heterosexual men and many other men too. Including the many, many homosexual men who for generations have lionized hyper-masculinity as the gay male ideal and have shown a lot of unkindness (to put it mildly) towards gay men whom they deem insufficiently masculine.

[–] XX_Power surf and terf 2 points (+2|-0)

Wow i did not know that! I wonder how these men even got AGP, i always thought violent porn was at least partly to blame. Although i guess, that may still be true, as we're seeing much higher total numbers of AGPs today. Aren't they above 1% of the population already?

Just a guess as to how they became AGP - femininity is a man made construct designed to excite and flatter men when performed by women. Since it was made by men for the benefit of men I guess it was inevitable that some men would apply the model to themselves and become sexually excited by it.

[–] questioningtw 1 points (+1|-0)

Alan Hart was a very early one, and pretty much went out of their way to get hormones and surgery. If you read the wikipedia article, Hart was very much bullied for being extremely gender non conforming and thought of themselves as having an inversion.

[–] questioningtw 1 points (+1|-0)

I do think there are some people that are just naturally extremely gender non conforming, and instead of society accepting them, they instead pathologize their non conformity. I do wonder if we would see ANY trans people if people weren't huge judgmental jerks that think that women always have to be very feminine and men have to be very masculine.