[–] JoanOfBark 101 points (+101|-0) Edited

Warning: I work in an environment where I have to keep track of "internet personalities" like Gaiman and I am really mad with celebrities right now, so this might come off as unhinged. But I need to get if off my chest.

I have a list of famous people who use phrases like "history is with you" to justify what they're doing to kids and I keep their names like Arya in Game of Thrones.

In ten or twenty years, when there's an epidemic of young adults who were trans'd young and have health problems like weak bones and the inability to have an orgasm I will bring that list out again and remind every single piece of shit celebrity who supported this what they did to these young LGB and GNC kids. That might sound obsessive, but I very narrowly escaped this new wave homophobia by grace of my age and my heart is BROKEN for these kids and what's being done to them.

Their legacies will not go unscathed. The history they love talking about so much will remember them for the fact that they support homophobic parents in transing away their gay and gender non-conforming kids.

I'm genuinely not kidding about this. These assholes care SO MUCH about what social media kids think about them that they've dumped common sense and decency at the door.

ONE fucking celebrity cares about women's rights and every single celebrity, probably a bit bitter that her old books make more money in a week than their new ones do in a year, line up to denounce her "hateful" rhetoric against MRAs and conversion therapists.

They'll try to pretend they didn't condone this. And I will not fucking let them.

Every sexual assault in a woman's bathroom or jail, every devastated trans'd gnc or LGB kid, every sports event made for women dominated by men. I will be there to remind them that they supported this.

Enjoy the likes and glowing write ups in Jezebel and The Mary Sue Neil. You'll pretend you didn't support this hate movement and I'll be there to remind everyone you god damn well fucking did.

By the way, when the already pathetically washed up Harry Potter actors decide they want to attend a convention to make a bit of cash off the fact that they were relevant at one point, I hope Rowling refuses to sign off on it. Fuck them. Tax evading Emma, White supremacist BFF Daniel, and the other one whose name I can't be fucked to remember might have enough money thanks to the woman they hate, but all those extras and minor characters can feel free to get a fucking job.

I comfort myself with the knowledge that Gaiman, Teagan and Sara, every idiot who has made a career out of being irritating on Twitter, and that horrid Queer Eye dude will be irrelevant in 100 years and no one will remember that they even existed, unlike Rowling. Harry Potter will be remade a million times with hundreds of new actors, so the Harry Potter actors are replaceable as well. Go ahead and get your bitter jealously out now everyone. You're pathetic.

(Edited for angry typos)

[–] PaulaAlquist 38 points (+38|-0) Edited

I like your style, sis! I am taking names, too.

[With apologies to Emily Dickinson:]

I'm a TERF! Who are you?

Are you –a TERF – too?

Then there's a pair of us!

Don't tell! they'd advertise – you know!

How dreary – to be – a TRA!

How public – like a Frog –

To tell one's name – the livelong June –

To an admiring B[l]og!

[–] Hollyhock 23 points (+24|-1)

like Arya in Game of Thrones

I believe we'd be good friends. And you're doing the goddess' work btw.

[–] JoanOfBark 18 points (+18|-0)

lol, thank you. I know I probably sound insane but I've been forced to read every Twitter wokie viciously denounce this woman for calling out a death threat against her for 48 hours now and I am so glad I have off tomorrow.

[–] SulphuricMirror 6 points (+6|-0)

Oh my goodness I just left an almost identical reply before I saw yours, lol, sorry! She really is doing the work of the goddess 🌒🌕🌘 though!

[–] Ghostofbelaabzug 21 points (+21|-0)

In ten or twenty years, when there's an epidemic of young adults who were trans'd young and have health problems like weak bones and the inability to have an orgasm I will bring that list out again and remind every single piece of shit celebrity who supported this what they did to these young LGB and GNC kids.

I hope so. I want these people to be reminded of what they stood for, and for all of this to not get swept under the rug. I desperately hold on to the hope that there will be accountability one day.

[–] remove_the_veil 13 points (+13|-0) Edited

Well-said!!! Such disappointments, all of them.

Admittedly, I never liked the HP actors, because I they didn't fit the headcanons I had for the characters at all. So ignoring them completely has never been an issue for me. Hope others do the same... :P

[–] SulphuricMirror 8 points (+8|-0)

Keep your list, you're doing the goddess's work, sister! I absolutely want to remind people who have failed women and children, and homosexuals, of what they did in the coming years. I won't forget, I won't let them pretend they are innocent. They don't get to pretend they did nothing wrong when they dehumanized over half the human race. Nope.

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[–] goatsauce [OP] 48 points (+48|-0)

Trans women are women. Trans men are men. Trans rights are human rights. I’m sorry that some people have such a hard time getting their heads around that. But the world is changing, and history is with you.

In response to an ask on Tumblr, Neil Gaiman takes his pot shots at JK Rowling (again), repeats the appropriate mantra to make sure we all know he's appropriately pious, and assures us all that the trans men and trans women are valid (you forgot the nonbinaries, Neil...1000 years jail!).

This is the same man who left his wife Amanda Palmer and their child in New Zealand for 9 months during quarantine to return to the UK, and is now getting a divorce after "upsetting" her with this move. I'm hardly surprised.

[–] Stealthygal 22 points (+23|-1)

Oh they actually ARE divorcing?

I fully accept that trans rights are human rights. But then we need to look at what rights MEAN. My rights stop where yours begin, my rights should not harm others and it is the same with trans rights. Human rights are food and shelter and equal access to participation in society. Not obliterating bodies and realities to suit your own preferences.

[–] IWantAGirlRiot 21 points (+21|-0)

To be fair, they’re both bonkers! She’s a grifter, he’s apparently flaky and has commitment issues. Neither one I look to for input on gender and women’s rights lol 😂

[–] remove_the_veil 17 points (+18|-1) Edited

That's the impression I got from their whole relationship, lol. I always expected it to implode because of their issues as individuals. They are both very attention-seeking people, and imo I think their types of attention-seeking were always destined to eventually clash.

That's why I was trying to say I didn't think it was necessarily due to 'age-gap' reasons, but more like personality and lifestyle choices (aka, their marriage was an 'open marriage', and every single couple I've known who has had one of those has eventually split up!)

[–] goatsauce [OP] 4 points (+4|-0)

This is true! Amanda Palmer has always seemed a bit off to me, but then again, I can never tell how much of that is me interpreting the narrative around her that's being told through a misogynistic lens and how much is who she really is and her real intentions (like with her stunt offering to stay in people's homes during her tours, but uhhhh for free?). Either way, being left behind in New Zealand with a kid would piss off any woman.

[–] IWantAGirlRiot 3 points (+3|-0)

For sure. I think Amanda was very different in her Dresden Dolls/AFP/Who Killed Amanda Palmer days, the performance and drama worked for her and it was early in the bloggy/SM days so she got attention for doing that. When she kickstarted that tour/started funding her life through Patreon…things changed a lot. I could sense a sort of entitlement (staying in homes for free, getting free labor) and a detachment from reality as she clung more to the “artist” title and relied more and more on online validation. I’m looking forward to seeing what she does post-Neil, if only because when they first got together they were obsessed with each other and it really consumed her especially.

[–] NewMa 14 points (+14|-0)

Oh wow.

The sixteen year age gap between them always icked me out a lot. But I hate it for any kid to go through the whole family-split thing.

[–] remove_the_veil 12 points (+15|-3) Edited

I can never bring myself to care that much about 'age gaps' (unlike a lot of radfems, i know), because my parents had a substantial age gap and that sort of thing has always been extremely normal for me. In fact, I am sometimes even quite pro-age gap (so sue me).

But I hadn't realised he LEFT her in New Zealand all that time....wtf??? I remember when the pandemic started and he flew to New Zealand to (supposedly) hole up there with his family, which I thought was admirable. I stopped paying attention after that though. Why the hell did he then proceed to leave them there? That's just nuts. O.o

[–] Stealthygal 15 points (+15|-0)

Because they were distracting him from his AHrt by being present and breathing and stuff, so instead of moving into a hotel nearby to work, which he could easily.have done, he flew across the world and drove to a.remote place in Scotland with his Covidy germs (fortunately he didn't actually get it en route).

He moaned about not being able to keep UK hours. Some speculated it was more about spending time with his young female assistant.

[–] floreo 12 points (+14|-2)

I don’t mind some age gaps either, as long as the people are well-balanced. I think there’s a good number of us, we just keep quiet.

Neil though, what the hell. And I really enjoyed his writing.

[–] defineyourterms 6 points (+7|-1)

My parents also had a substantial age gap (over 20 years) and it's one of the reasons I think substantial age gaps are a problem. Research shows the most succesful relationships have a 0-3 year gap, and I think being with someone who is in a very different life stage to yourself can cause problems.

That said, I also think there's a big difference between someone aged 25+ getting into a relationship with a larger gap versus people under 25 who haven't finished mentally maturing yet. I agree with your point below that there should be a bit more nuance when the gap is 10 years or under, but I still think being closer in age is usually healthier for a relationship.

[–] Carthimundia 14 points (+15|-1)

Don’t forget that at the height of the pandemic when the advice was stay put and don’t travel he travelled to his holiday home on a remote Scottish island and put people at risk. He’s such a dick.

[–] remove_the_veil 6 points (+7|-1)

That's the part I found most shocking, actually. I am oddly not surprised about the marital strain, but the fact that he thought he could just up and go in the middle of the pandemic and no one would criticise it seems like the height of entitlement to me.

[–] Raghaille 7 points (+7|-0)

He did get criticised in the press plus by the local people and their mayor. They were not happy but the damage was done by that stage so it didn't make sense to send him back. Male entitlement and delicate feelings win out again!!!

[–] Ghostofbelaabzug 34 points (+35|-1)

The Sandman novels blew my mind when I first read them. American Gods, Anansi Boys, all of Gaiman's books amazed me. Some of his stories still randomly pop into my head even though it's been years. He was one of the few male fantasy writers that actually wrote believable women and non-white characters. All that said, I realized a long time ago that if I was going to continue loving him the way I do, I would have to avoid knowing as much as possible about his personal life. Every new thing I hear about him makes me marvel at the fact that someone so pretentious and unbearable manages to write books that are so grounded and human.

Also, eyeroll at them referring to JK Rowling as a "certain British author." It's not cute.

[–] remove_the_veil 19 points (+20|-1) Edited

Neil Gaiman used to be one of my top fave contemporary writers. I was a total fangirl for nearly two decades.

But not since last year when he signed that stupid letter against JKR.

And never again.

Oh no. Should I ask what letter? Like I said, I knew he was "problematic," but I was hoping it was the kind of thing I could quietly ignore. I'm looking at my bookshelf right now in trepidation.

[–] remove_the_veil 10 points (+11|-1) Edited

Oh...it was the letter that a bunch of celebs/writers signed not long after the original Harper's Letter on free speech that had been published in support of JKR. It was like a 'reactionary' letter against that, though it didn't specifically say 'we're against JKR', it was more like a passive-aggressive thing where they were all 'we support trans people' (inferring that JKR did not).

ETA: I should clarify that I still admire a great deal of his work -- it's almost too deeply-ingrained in me to ever just discard it completely. American Gods, for instance, had an absolutely profound effect on me and influenced my own creative pursuits over the years. I can't pretend I suddenly don't like it. But I just mean that, unfortunately, my opinion of him as a person has greatly diminished because of all of this.

[–] littleowl12 2 points (+3|-1)

That's where I'm at.

Yeah, I'm torn. Where is the line? I genuinely love his novels, but do I "cancel" him? On the one hand, I hate how easily TRAs cancel anyone who disagrees with them in the slightest, but on the other hand, I don't want to support someone who is okay with the erasure of women. I mean, as of right now, I already own all his novels to date, but should I discourage others from reading him? Should I ditch my copies of his books? I may re-read a book or two to see if I can simply take it for what it is.

[–] Triselly 12 points (+13|-1)

I think we are no better than they are if we go around cancelling our favourite authors for wrongthink/wrongspeak.

[–] remove_the_veil 7 points (+7|-0) Edited

Despite my anger at him, and the fact that my opinion of him as a person as at an all-time low, I don't intend to get rid of the books by him that i already own. I will likely even re-read them again someday. I just probably won't purchase any of his other works in the future...

[–] PinkPanther 4 points (+4|-0) Edited

I see it this way, I enjoy what I've consumed from the people. For example, if I've already read their work, watched their movies, listened to the song. But I will not follow, give views or support them any longer. They don't deserve it and I won't do it, my perception of their work in the future will always be coloured by what I saw anyways. There's degrees to this too if it's something like an idiot agreeing with the current agenda and selling out I still won't follow them any longer but if it's a scum of the earth then I won't even touch or look at their shit. It's my choice not to consume content by trash humans,I don't really go on a cancel spree online though as I don't even have social media. It's more about keeping my principles.

[–] Nurvilya 1 points (+1|-0)

I really enjoyed "The Graveyard Book", and liked the Coraline (book & movie). "The Ocean at the End of the Lane" on the other hand was one of the worst books I remember reading.

From what I know about that knobhead now, I definitely won't be reading any more books by him. No, thanks. I'm done with him. - But I won't let that situation ruin a book for me, that I loved back in the day when I first read it. I would feel like one of these raging TRA-children if I'd let current developments influence how I felt years ago. I might disagree with his actions now, but that doesn't mean that me from a decade ago was wrong to like something he created.

[–] Mikkal 19 points (+19|-0)

I've been disappointed in Neil Gaiman since the famous "George R.R. Martin is not your bitch" statement.

Keep in mind the timeline: The first three books said "trilogy" on them, so we got to the end of book 3 and were shocked it wasn't complete. But, you know, just one more book. Then, Nov 2005, fourth book in the trilogy was published, after a 5 year wait. At the end of the book, it said books 4 and 5 were split into two books, as it was too massive to publish as one unified book, and book 5 would be published in a year. When fans started complaining about broken promises, four years later - that's when Gaiman made his statement, in 2009.

It's crazy to think I read the first 3 books 20 years ago, thinking they were complete because they were being advertised that way.

[–] zephyrean 8 points (+9|-1)

It's crazy to think I read the first 3 books 20 years ago, thinking they were complete because they were being advertised that way.

I upboated, but I actually disagree with both you and Gaiman. Trilogy means three books. Writers (and other human content creators) don't owe anything to "fans" with regards to yet-unreleased and unpaid-for product. You are free to complain about an "unfinished" story the same you're free to complain about a "finished" but bad story, but the author is never under an obligation to continue (or to stop for that matter). Martin's promises are between him and whoever pays his advances.

On the other hand, an attention hog who thrives on "fandom" has no right to whine about it taking him or someone else to account.

[–] Mikkal 8 points (+8|-0)
  • Publishing companies shouldn't advertise a series is complete when it isn't complete. That's false advertising.
  • Publishing companies shouldn't publish "this book is complete and will be published next year" when that is a lie. That's false advertising.

The Publishing company did both. People have every right to be mad about being lied to.

[–] remove_the_veil 7 points (+8|-1) Edited

Agree with this. Despite being someone who has followed the A Song of Ice and Fire series since the early 2000s, I have never felt that GRRM 'owed' me anything one way or another. My only annoyance was that the god-awful tv adaptation ended up finishing before the book series did, but even that didn't make me feel like GRRM owed me anything. He's already written enough of the series that, if he keeled over and died tomorrow, I'd be sad the story was never finished, but I'd still be happy to have what currently exists and content to just imagine my own preferred ending.

ETA: Also agree that it's annoying that Neil Gaiman seems to think that just because he has a tumblr account he needs to insert himself into every fandom discussion regarding his fellow fantasy authors.

[–] Carthimundia 14 points (+14|-0)

This entire exchange is so weird. Someone seeks out Neil Gaiman and asks him to display his loyalty to trans ideology to make them feel better about the disloyalty of another author. Gaiman then immediately launches into the creepy mantra to show he is a true believer.

[–] TinyCatSkeleton 7 points (+7|-0)

It's exactly like 1984; loyalty to the Party over literally everything else. Anyone in the Party can be interrogated at any time regarding their loyalty. If they fail the test, they are sent for "re-education". If a member of the Party feels that you haven't been as publicly loyal as your neighbor was this week, (or just needs some extra UwUs to soothe themselves after they've been literally murdered by being "misgendered" on Twitter), they can make you publicly grovel for the Party's forgiveness. If you're convincing enough, they'll leave you alone for another few days. Your friends, neighbors, and family have to suffer through watching your display; outwardly pretending to hate you for your transgressions, and inwardly knowing they don't believe, either.

We honestly don't know if Gaiman is a true Party loyalist, or just someone whose profession as a writer makes their performance in public Loyalty tests very convincing, indeed.

[–] IrishTheFrenchie 14 points (+14|-0)

Not even a little bit shocked. Can’t get the lucrative work in Hollywood without spouting the party line.

[–] goatsauce [OP] 15 points (+15|-0)

Can't make his new woke Sandman show with "Mx Justin Vivian Bond" as Desire if the trans kids don't like him enough to watch it.

[–] el-sol-duerme 2 points (+2|-0)

I've been a huge Neil Gaiman fan since I read The Sandman as a teen. I in no way ever felt that I could personify the androgynous nature of Desire. Desire can be genderfluid - he/she is a fictional character! Desire does not, and should not, represent real life.

[–] goatsauce [OP] 2 points (+2|-0)

I feel like androgyny of that sort doesn't exist anymore, tbh. You can't represent a fantastical genderless being without it somehow rubberstamping someone's gender feels. Something that should be allowed to be totally fantasy even now has to be rooted to reflect someone's real life feelings.

[–] BathMat 9 points (+9|-0)

I HATED American Gods when I tried to read it. Women were either devouring vagina monsters or sexy young things who got cut up. I wanted to like him because I loved Good Omens, but I think that the humanity in that all came from the wonderful Terry Pratchett, who certainly saw women as equally human and deserving of respect. But I felt only misogyny from undiluted Gaiman. I feel the same about Alan Moore.

[–] Tnetennba 8 points (+8|-0) Edited

Same. I seriously don't understand the Gaiman worship that seems to infect people's brains. Everything he's written has been so boring, IMO.

I love Pratchett, tho! Agree with your take 100%.

[–] goatsauce [OP] 0 points (+0|-0)

I think I preferred the American Gods TV show (or at least the first season) to the books. The female characters had more depth to them and I didn't mind the use of all the vaginal devouring imagery when it was embodied by a woman instead of written by a man. I similarly don't like Alan Moore and I think he really seems to hate women from the works of his that I've come across. I do worry what Pratchett's modern day input would be on the JK Rowling/trans issue, but I'm also glad I don't have to know on the off chance that he'd disappoint me. He didn't seem to like JKR much, though it may have just been the media's interpretation of his wording.

[–] mountainwitch 9 points (+9|-0)

These people don't believe a word of the shit they're peddling. Just enjoying spoonfeeding one another doublespeak for the sake of the woke factor and internet points. Garbage 🗑️.

[–] Luske 7 points (+7|-0)

You'd think an author had enough imagination and writing experience to express his point of view in his own words rather than just repeat the same tired mantra.

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