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My thoughts on this aren't very well sorted out and I am hoping that some wiser women can help.

I think there is something qualitatively different about the rights demanded by TIMs and TIFs, but TIMs try to conflate the two.

When TIFs insist that "men can get pregnant" and ask us to say "chestfeeding," it is obnoxious and denies basic reality. But it does not remove women's safety the way that demanding access to women's spaces does.

So I think what is happening is:

TIFs convince society that pretending men can get pregnant is the kind thing to do -- we all know that men can't actually get pregnant, but this makes TIFs feel better and we all want to be nice. So we agree to be "inclusive."

TIMs capitalize on this and demand access to the same spaces because we're being inclusive, aren't we? It would be MEAN to exclude them and we already agreed to be nice!

Thoughts?

My thoughts on this aren't very well sorted out and I am hoping that some wiser women can help. I think there is something qualitatively different about the rights demanded by TIMs and TIFs, but TIMs try to conflate the two. When TIFs insist that "men can get pregnant" and ask us to say "chestfeeding," it is obnoxious and denies basic reality. But it does not remove women's safety the way that demanding access to women's spaces does. So I think what is happening is: TIFs convince society that pretending men can get pregnant is the kind thing to do -- we all know that men can't actually get pregnant, but this makes TIFs feel better and we all want to be nice. So we agree to be "inclusive." TIMs capitalize on this and demand access to the same spaces because we're being inclusive, aren't we? It would be MEAN to exclude them and we already agreed to be nice! Thoughts?

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Actually, my experience has been that TiMs are parading TiFs around in order to minimize the fetish aspect of their demands, more of a "making TiFs have the demands that TiMs actually want" thing. For example: All of our school-aged concessions to the TRAs have had a biological female face. We have not even had a teenage boy ask to be put in the girls' locker rooms on the news. If one was only watching/reading local coverage, one might not even know about TiMs, but I know they are out there. It's very scary the capture of media on this issue, but it's very obvious why they are doing it that way too.

[–] Tesserae_Tali 23 points Edited

This, absolutely. Adult AGPs and their allies seek camouflage by shifting the spotlight onto childhood transitioners and teenage girls with ROGD. The focus on minors, particularly female minors, bolsters the lie that transness is innate and unrelated to any sort of sexual fetish. Unfortunately for the AGPs, any normie who interacts with a few trans-identified teenage females will quickly figure out that (a) virtually all of them arrived at their trans identities via social contagion and (b) many of them are very much sexually motivated. Even so, it’s still easier to make 5'2", sixteen-year-old Elijah look palatable to the public eye than it is to pass off 6'2", forty-six-year-old Valentine as a fragile little daisy.

Truth.

In high school I had a friend who became a TIF and she was and continues to be one of the most sexually aggressive people I know. At the time I thought she was cool and worldly, but looking back I think something must have happened to her, poor thing.

There was one in Missouri I think. The story was about all the girls walking out in protest. There’s video of the boy walking and you can see his penis through his skirt. He was on all the morning talk shows.

This. I just watched Ben Boyces interview with a TiF Aaron Kimberly and they talk about it. Morgane Oger wanted to silence trans men for the reason you are talking about. https://youtu.be/YIDwOk-bvtE @18 min mark

I always thought TiFs defence of TIMs was weird. Like they really believe they are more privileged than actual men and that TIMs are oppressed. I put them in the same category as handmaidens. TIMs are extremely misogynistic and I have seen how they talk about TiFs online... and let me just say they don't like them. One even said the only time he feels good about TiFs is when they get pregnant because its a "man giving birth".

[+] [Deleted] 9 points

I put them in the same category as handmaidens.

Same. At first I was really sympathetic, thinking these women just want to opt out of being sexually assaulted. But now I think this is just another manifestation of misogyny. It doesn't always come from men.

TIM use any and all excuses. They want to co-opt every "officially recognized as oppressed" group's struggle, the same way they colonized LGB.

It's a fetish. I've even concluded that for many of the women it's a fetish with all the anime and yaoi.

TIFs if they can't 100% pass as men, well I just worry about their safety a lot if they are really trying to enter men's spaces.

The hate, the aggression, the threats, the piles of abuse heaped on women are done by men for men. TIFs are an afterthought. TIMs don't want women to have anything that they aren't a part of, and are at the forefront of any language change regarding TIFs, imo. Because TIMs hate us and are jealous of us, , they will deny us everything possible, even our words.

Absolutely. They use TIFs as case examples to push through bathroom/intimate space access

I never have heard a TIF say that we need to say things like "men can get pregnant" etc. It's always been the TIMs. (I know that's not science or anything, just contributing my experience)

Same. The “inclusive language” isn’t for transmen or other TIFs at all, it’s for transwomen. So they can disassociate biology from womanhood, so they can pretend that lacking female bodily functions makes them anything but men.