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I'm quite disappointed to see women here who are supposedly "gender critical" dismiss this woman so readily when it came to her "obviously unhinged " blogs like are you serious?? You're embarrassing and this is part of the reason it's getting increasingly hard to call myself GC. She was being attacked even by the ones who proudly call themselves TERFs you'd think they'd understand her a bit, but all these labels apparently mean we're pacifist and throw other women under the bus when it's bad optics. She is still a woman who is standing up to this ideology her own way, who has been abused herself but I guess it doesn't matter because "she makes us look bad" incredible. Her writing style is powerful and her rage is what's needed and being angry and reading women like her being rightfully angry as well is what made me see this ideology for what it is and because I felt that rage myself as should all of us. I just hate the absolute lack of female solidarity when it's inconvenient, like not even trying to understand her perspective just immediately villainizing her so we could be perceived as "the good ones". I guess im just disillusioned by how quickly these GCs were to paint her as this violent monster & compare her to TRAS like wtf?? also calling her mentally unstable, schizophrenic …and these are supposed to be feminists the fucking irony

Btw I'm not even gonna delve into her sexual assaults which she apologized and took full responsibility for, and the whole porn industry that she took part in as I obviously condemn it

I'm quite disappointed to see women here who are supposedly "gender critical" dismiss this woman so readily when it came to her "obviously unhinged " blogs like are you serious?? You're embarrassing and this is part of the reason it's getting increasingly hard to call myself GC. She was being attacked even by the ones who proudly call themselves TERFs you'd think they'd understand her a bit, but all these labels apparently mean we're pacifist and throw other women under the bus when it's bad optics. She is still a woman who is standing up to this ideology her own way, who has been abused herself but I guess it doesn't matter because "she makes us look bad" incredible. Her writing style is powerful and her rage is what's needed and being angry and reading women like her being rightfully angry as well is what made me see this ideology for what it is and because I felt that rage myself as should all of us. I just hate the absolute lack of female solidarity when it's inconvenient, like not even trying to understand her perspective just immediately villainizing her so we could be perceived as "the good ones". I guess im just disillusioned by how quickly these GCs were to paint her as this violent monster & compare her to TRAS like wtf?? also calling her mentally unstable, schizophrenic …and these are supposed to be feminists the fucking irony Btw I'm not even gonna delve into her sexual assaults which she apologized and took full responsibility for, and the whole porn industry that she took part in as I obviously condemn it

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[–] meranii 8 points Edited

I do not think we need to self-flagellate because one woman has, in a moment of desperation and rage, written something shitty and violent. It's tragic that the porn industry chewed her up and spit her out, and that she victimized so many women in a bid to cater to the male gaze more successfully. It is good, though, that she's speaking up because the machine that profited the most from all of it, is still running. In a way, the pornsick TiMs are symptoms of the entire woman-hating and objectifying depravity of that industry, so I get why she's angry as hell, even if I don't want anyone lynched (obviously)

I have seen, in my 25 years of reading online forums and social media, literally thousands of posts by men that were just as bad or worse than what she wrote. Not to mention actual videos and confessions of abuse and assault. And never have other men seen themselves or their political movements as personally responsible. Bringing this up is not whataboutism, it's pointing out the extreme double standards of patriarchy. A million men can enjoy women being abused from the comfort of their own homes, and pay for their continued degradation through porn, no one cares, don't kinkshame, blahblah. One woman, who was literally used and abused for years, tweets "violently", stop the presses, gendercritical feminism is to blame!

I don't think everyone here has to support her, but we also don't have to blame ourselves or attack her to "prove we're the sane ones". Women don't have to answer for everything another woman does, we have solidarity but we're not a hive mind. What we need to do is be heard and not back down so what happened to her and was done by her doesn't happen to other women.

[–] bumpyjerboa 15 points Edited

One thing I haven't seen mentioned or discussed is that JKR was completely calm, rational, and level in her writing of her big piece about this and TRAs levelled the exact same claims against her - that she wanted all trans people murdered.

I do wish Cade had chosen her words a little more carefully but honestly, no matter what anyone says in criticizing TRAs, those accusations will fly, won't they? A beloved children's author is painted as being just as "murderous" as a former porn star and admitted rapist.

It's not really about the words anyone chooses, it's about the fact that they are choosing words at all to express that they do not agree with the trans movement.

Amen to that sister. Amen. Placating doesn’t really work. Thanks to the other women here who pointed out that this is what trauma looks like.

I can't get specific, but I've known Lily Cade in real life as a casual acquaintance. I haven't spoken to her in a long time, but I know her. Her porn career took a lot from her. It was both her creative peak and her personal downfall. I know she's tried in various ways the last few years to get her life in order outside of porn and things weren't going too badly. I suspect her recent manifestos are a low key form of self harm, her last ditch effort to burn the Lily Cade persona to the ground publicly. She's stood up for herself mostly alone for so long that I think she was aiming for the shock value as well as the catharsis of unleashing her honest thoughts. I wasn't aware of the assault allegations, though I don't think that issue negates her other experiences as fucked up as it all is.

[–] LOriginedumonde 10 points Edited

I haven’t seen this explicitly mentioned in either post but I think that a lot of women are just disappointed with how things played out. A problem that we’ve been screaming about for so long was finally addressed in a mainstream media article and its disappointing that instead of people focusing on the TIM rape victims mentioned in the article, people are only focusing on the woman who has been a victim and perpetrator of rape, who has said that TIMs should be lynched (be it metaphorical or not), and who was included in the article purely for the historical context of the “cotton ceiling.”

Its just the same old “wOmEn RaPe AnD aRe ViOlEnT ToO” that is always used to discredit women who speak out against their rapists and male violence. That’s not Lily’s fault, or any of our faults, it’s the fault of society at large. Women should be allowed to be upset and to grieve over the way things played out, and that we will be associated with this regardless of the fact that she is one woman out of thousands who are speaking out against this evil ideology. In a perfect world normal people (not TRAs) should be able to distinguish Lily’s actions and words as her own, but in our fucked up world full of dense followers, that’s just not realistic and it fucking sucks that humanity has allowed ourselves to become this way.

We need to just keep going around the TRAs. Ignore them and keep marching on. Honestly, I wish all GC women and feminists would just stop paying a single iota of attention to the TRAs on twitter and just do our own thing, powerfully and without worrying about how they spin it.

Exactly. Unfortunately what TRAs do and say does bleeds over into the real world; however, that is rapidly changing. This would have been a big issue if it had happened just one or two years earlier. I personally don’t have any social media besides Ovarit but I can understand why women are apprehensive when TRA tweets have been taken as gospel for so long. They’re losing power and we definitely shouldn’t be giving their belligerent rants any mind, but we also shouldn't knock women for still being somewhat fearful after everything that we’ve been through. We just have to keep pushing forward.

I found her writing "unhinged" specifically due to her calls for violence, not the level of her anger. I take moral issue with her lynching statements, and she absolutely does NOT represent me as a GC person whatsoever. And yes, the TRAs claimed for years that GCrs/TERFS want them dead, well now they got their evidence so yeah. this was a very poor move on her part and set us back. We had just gotten a lot of folks' attention with the BBC article and she shat all over it and now everyone will just remember that woman who said we should lynch TIMs. I mean come on. Everyone here is angry, I doubt anyone has any issues with her being angry as well. Also, her having suffered from trauma and abuse does not give her or anyone else a pass to advocate for violence, full stop.

It only 'sets us back' if we let it, though. She is not associated with us at all. My frustration is acting like we are supposed to just 'allow' this to set us back. Who gives a shit what the TRAs do or say? We must do as Helen Joyce said and go around them. TRAs are a lost cause and the best thing is to totally ignore them.

Oh i don't care at all about how TRAs feel about her and I agree they are already a lost cause. My concern is the average unaffiliated person who hasn't really been exposed to GC ideas. They read the BBC article, it starts to turn some cogs in their head AND THEN they stumble across the Cade blog through that connection, and they are immediately repulsed by the violent rhetoric. Cade could literally be the first "TERF" an unaffiliated person could interact with online and that's a fucking shame because that's not who we are or what we're about.

It really doesn't matter though. I don't think it should matter this much. My frustration is due to the hypocrisy and double standards. TRAs have much worse optics, all it takes it looking at KF or terfisaslur or womenarehuman. This batle is against a huge lobby that has tons of money and can buy themselves 'good optics' in the mainstream press. We've never been allowed to 'look good'. I don't have in in me to allow them to let me feel upset about this. Every inch of progress we make they will ALWAYS try to do something, or use someting, to set it back. Just look at Keira Bell's win and how suddenly out of nowhere Ellen Page became Elliot Page that same day. Our good news is always short lived in this fight. We can't let it matter too much.

I enjoyed the sheer powerful rage of her piece, but I totally understand why others aren't on board with the foul and violent language she used.

Surely though, there is no one true way to be a GC feminist? I very much appreciate that we all have a space here to discuss all this, and come to a mutual understanding of each other's thoughts and views and feelings, even when we do have sharp divisions of opinion.

I very much appreciate that we all have a space here to discuss all this, and come to a mutual understanding of each other's thoughts and views and feelings, even when we do have sharp divisions of opinion.

This is a really important statement and its always so inspiring to see whenever we discuss topics where we have sharp divisions of opinions. I hope that we can serve as an example for people outside of the Ovarit community because the world desperately needs this again. I’m so tired of tribalism.

[–] NotCis 10 points Edited

I am sorry for how much she has suffered and for how much pain she seems to be in. I also denounce her calls for lynchings and executions of trans-identified people and make no apologies for that. It's not about policing anger - I'm an angry woman too and I have suffered far, far less than she has. I just draw the line at specific calls to violence and want to make it clear that she does not represent my views (my anger is more "get the fuck out of my bathroom" and "stop trying to speak over me, you male asshole" - but I'm perfectly happy for trans-identified people to do whatever they want to do in life as long as it doesn't infringe on women's rights). I do not share her views, do not think it's good for other women to share them, and do not think we need those views in the GC movement. Our movement is strong and growing stronger - why would we need to embrace a radical, violent isolated perspective? What good would it do?

We can still hope that Cade gets the help she needs on a personal level without embracing her ideology. It's not leaving her out to dry or failing to understand that she is angry, but the place for her to understand that depth of anger is in a therapist's office, not on the frontlines of female political advocacy.

[–] [Deleted] 18 points Edited

Also people seem to be unaware that she accepts being called a rapist because she accepts she hurt people. None of the other women, and men involved in porn will own up to the fact that they too are rapists. She was a prostitute, payed to act out fetish for men. If you know what goes on behind the scenes then you fucking know the men behind the camera are often pressuring or outright forcing these women to commit these acts.

I've seen other women say their fellow actresses didn't want to do something and yet they did it(one woman says they didn't want to be fingered up the ass as that was not discussed and guess what she ended up doing it to them). I've seen women talk about blood being wiped off their ass during takes. I've read worse then this too.

Come the fuck on now, please be aware of the true inhumanity of this industry. It's not as easy as her being the bad egg, they all were and at least she go out. The rest are still hurting each other in the name of male pleasure, still forced to work for a shit system.

Her writings seemd incomprehensible to me but whatever, I just don’t understand why we needed a link to a porn site

I think the link to the porn site was taken down almost immediately? The rest was either reposted or archived. It goes against the rules to link directly to something like that here.

I thought what she had to say was powerful. We can't ignore women's voices just because they are rough. Being a women is rough. I don't have to agree with everything a woman has said or done to find value in her words. Every female perspective is important to me. The blog post that was copied here the other day just showed me how much we all have in common as women. She's deep into porn culture, but she still sees the truth of the trans madness. Obviously she has done bad things that she admits to and feels remorse for. That doesn't take away her credibility. Hell, how many men have done equal or worse and feel no remorse and face no consquences? How many male creators of any kind have committed sexual abuse and rape that we never hear about and we continue to support their work and listen to their voices? How many men do we know personally who have committed crimes we'll never know about but we still allow them in our lives? I find absolutely nothing wrong with reading the perspective of a woman deep in the pits of the worst patriarchy has to offer, and I will continue to fight so that other women never have to face the evils that she has.

How many men have written fictional accounts of the rape and murder of women with slavering delight? How much philosophy and religion has been written in absolute seriousness about how women should be controlled and killed if they don’t submit? Lily Cade is showing us the price of all kinds of misogyny. She’s paid that price. We are supposed to be for her too. She unequivocally stated that women are her people and her tribe. How many of us have done the same?

These are the women we should be fighting for as well and providing exists for, making them feel safe and understood if not we're just pushing them away from our movements that are intended to help all kinds of women

[–] [Deleted] 14 points Edited

Lot of women on here talk about fighting for and caring for those prostituted women, and yet they're balking when they're shown the reality of what that life can do to a person. She's not perfect, she's what came out of that abuse and degradation and you know what that's valid, we'll still fight for her liberation too.

I 100% agree. I've spent more time around broken women in bad situations than whole women living fulfilling lives. In fact I have been a broken girl in one bad situation after another, so I feel a kinship towards women like this. Truth can be ugly and hard to hear. Victims are not perfect people, nor can we expect them to be. They deserve our compassion regardless.

That's what's happening here imo, she's not the sanitized version of a woman, and there's a disconnect with people here because of that.

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