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I'm quite disappointed to see women here who are supposedly "gender critical" dismiss this woman so readily when it came to her "obviously unhinged " blogs like are you serious?? You're embarrassing and this is part of the reason it's getting increasingly hard to call myself GC. She was being attacked even by the ones who proudly call themselves TERFs you'd think they'd understand her a bit, but all these labels apparently mean we're pacifist and throw other women under the bus when it's bad optics. She is still a woman who is standing up to this ideology her own way, who has been abused herself but I guess it doesn't matter because "she makes us look bad" incredible. Her writing style is powerful and her rage is what's needed and being angry and reading women like her being rightfully angry as well is what made me see this ideology for what it is and because I felt that rage myself as should all of us. I just hate the absolute lack of female solidarity when it's inconvenient, like not even trying to understand her perspective just immediately villainizing her so we could be perceived as "the good ones". I guess im just disillusioned by how quickly these GCs were to paint her as this violent monster & compare her to TRAS like wtf?? also calling her mentally unstable, schizophrenic …and these are supposed to be feminists the fucking irony

Btw I'm not even gonna delve into her sexual assaults which she apologized and took full responsibility for, and the whole porn industry that she took part in as I obviously condemn it

I'm quite disappointed to see women here who are supposedly "gender critical" dismiss this woman so readily when it came to her "obviously unhinged " blogs like are you serious?? You're embarrassing and this is part of the reason it's getting increasingly hard to call myself GC. She was being attacked even by the ones who proudly call themselves TERFs you'd think they'd understand her a bit, but all these labels apparently mean we're pacifist and throw other women under the bus when it's bad optics. She is still a woman who is standing up to this ideology her own way, who has been abused herself but I guess it doesn't matter because "she makes us look bad" incredible. Her writing style is powerful and her rage is what's needed and being angry and reading women like her being rightfully angry as well is what made me see this ideology for what it is and because I felt that rage myself as should all of us. I just hate the absolute lack of female solidarity when it's inconvenient, like not even trying to understand her perspective just immediately villainizing her so we could be perceived as "the good ones". I guess im just disillusioned by how quickly these GCs were to paint her as this violent monster & compare her to TRAS like wtf?? also calling her mentally unstable, schizophrenic …and these are supposed to be feminists the fucking irony Btw I'm not even gonna delve into her sexual assaults which she apologized and took full responsibility for, and the whole porn industry that she took part in as I obviously condemn it

50 comments

[–] Turtlefuzz Flairy Godmother 32 points

She is still a woman who is standing up to this ideology her own way

She named prominent TIMs and said they should be lynched. That's completely uncalled for, and should be denounced.

Calling for death threats and violence is not the answer, as we point out with TRAs.

Exactly. It is not just bad optics, I have a moral disagreement with what she said.

Additionally, I have a moral problem with the fact that she assaulted and raped women, on video, and some of those videos were then monetized. "Well she said she was sorry" doesn't cut it for me.

Yes. I understand that she is both a victim and a victimizer but if one of those women she raped came forward to press charges, I would absolutely support a prison sentence for her. It doesn't matter if a rapist has a sob story or not, rape has to have consequences.

[–] BlackCirce 🔮🐖🐖🐖 30 points

She’s a lesbian, a proudly prostituted woman, a woman who is fully woman identified. Very few feminists or women are going to listen to her or want to be associated with her. I don’t know what she did in the sex trade that got her canceled, but I will assume she pimped/raped other women, so she’s a pariah. Suggesting women or anybody use physical means to protect women’s interests puts her outside the circle of female political innocence.

The funny thing is she never asked for approval from feminists or other women, but women are so accustomed to the idea of deeming which of us are acceptable, they are withdrawing approval she never had or asked for. She admits she’s a monster, she’s bad and she’s an outsider, and women are rushing forward to disown a woman who they never claimed to begin with. The issue of Lily Cade has always been sanitized or avoided in discussions of the cotton ceiling, because she doesn’t fit any easy narrative about women’s politics. She’s the Julia we can all point at and say “do it to her!”

Many gender critical women are putting stock in appearing rational, reasonable, nonviolent and passive as a political strategy. The idea is the state and society will side with women speaking calmly and nicely in a specific accent against men who are screaming sexualized threats. Sidelining women who are truly angry and use vulgar language is part and parcel of the strategy.

As for radical/cultural feminists, lesbian separatists, misandrists and the like, the male focused and male led gender critical movement has made their use of us and our theories, protests, research, interpersonal support, money and personal pain. They’re done with us. They now have the clout they need to claim leadership and primacy in the movement and marginalize us as activists. Men have taken control of “gender critical” just like they took control of social justice oriented feminist spaces in the 2000-2010s. It happens every time and will continue to happen until women take the principle of separatism seriously. And its not too late to do that. Women only political spaces are popping up in secret again in response to the male and male-identified invasion of gender critical.

You do not need the gender critical label if you are a radical lesbian yourself or a radical feminist, because those movements are based on gender criticism and incorporate criticism of transsexualism. There is no “gender critical” without us.

I wholeheartedly agree with everything you've said. Thank you for commenting people like you restore my faith in these spaces honestly.

Many gender critical women are putting stock in appearing rational, reasonable, nonviolent and passive as a political strategy. The idea is the state and society will side with women speaking calmly and nicely in a specific accent against men who are screaming sexualized threats. Sidelining women who are truly angry and use vulgar language is part and parcel of the strategy.

Are you calling for a violent political strategy? It's honestly hard to tell because you have grouped some different ideas together here. But I'm commenting specifically on your use of the word 'nonviolent' as something negative.

[–] BlackCirce 🔮🐖🐖🐖 5 points

I’m not sure the femino-politically correct way to say this but I am not a pacifist.

[–] Mikkal 28 points Edited

This is the "apology" she supposedly wrote - I could only find it referenced on a gossip site with no receipts (no archive, no screen shots).

She doesn't blame the victims here - she takes full responsibility. I have never seen a man take responsibility like this. Never.

I remember my father, after he'd been arrested, coaching me about "how he'd never done x" to me - he was lying through his teeth to protect his reputation, to prevent everyone - my mother, the police, our family from being aware of the full depravity of what he'd done.

I will say - she writes like a woman with PTSD. I don't say that to discredit her, to throw her under the bus, to diminish her in any way. I say it to acknowledge I've been there with her.

The monsters don't need to hurt all women. They need to hurt just enough of us to scare all the other women and keep us in line. To keep us afraid. A few women are the examples to everyone else - you don't have to have been personally hurt to be impacted by the violence against women. You're impacted to. You have a right to single sex spaces too.

Again - I can't find any proof she wrote it, but this is what everyone is passing around as her confession, if you want to read it.

I’m sorry, everyone. I have let you all down.

I’ve always hooked up with girls at porn parties and conventions, frequently on camera, in front of witnesses. I did this because I thought it was wanted, and that girls enjoyed it. The cameras enjoyed it, anyway. It was an organic thing at first. I did it before I was even really in porn and was a piece of how I got in. As the years wore on, I started to feel obligated to do it. It was my “thing”. The cameras would follow me around and I would get up to my usual hijinks. I tweeted about this. I posted pictures on social media. I didn’t conceptualize any of this as assualt, or I wouldn’t have done it much less promoted it.

Eventually, I started to hear complaints, through the grapevine. No one said anything to my face, but people complained to each other, and eventually it made it’s way to me without names or details that some girls didn’t appreciate the bathroom trips. I felt thrown, because I had thought of these as mutually pleasurable activities. My thinking was warped – I thought I was so good at reading people that I could tell when girls wanted it. I lived to get girls off. I thought of myself as being a good person. I wanted to stand for sexual freedom, not sexual coercion. I thought was on the side of the light. I have failed.

I’m deeply embarrassed by these revelations. I did not want to be evil. I remember the incidents with Jasmine Summers, Honey Gold and Maren. I misread the situations so completely that it came as a shock to me that these girls experienced them as assaults. I was aware of some situations where I’d crossed lines, but I didn’t know that these were among them. I didn’t know they felt violated by me. I feel gross about it. I feel stupid. I tweeted about all of these girls, posting photos of Honey and video of Maren. I gave them my number afterwards. I wasn’t ashamed about this, because I didn’t think there was anything to be ashamed of.

I feel ashamed now. I thought that that girls went along with me because they enjoyed it, but they did it because they felt like they couldn’t say no. I thought it was all in fun, but it wasn’t. I played a sexual predator in movies, but it was supposed to be tongue in cheek. I thought of myself as someone who helped girls in the business, not preyed on them. I thought of myself as an artist, not a monster. On the same party bus where Maren says I ruined her Exxotica, I shoved Ron Jeremy for refusing to back off from trying to get in some lesbian action. At another party, I broke Max Hardcore’s nose. I thought I was better than porn’s serial gropers, but I guess I was just the female of the species.

I’m deeply sorry for the way that I made these girls feel. I’m sorry to anyone I have hurt. I engaged in so much “partying” – I don’t know how much of it was ok and how much of it was damaging. I knew I had gotten lost in my persona and had been taking steps to come out of it and get treatment for my mental health. I had already stopped the substance use and the public sex, but it was too late. I am sorry from the bottom of my heart. I can’t take it back, and I don’t expect to be forgiven. I’m seeing a lot of warnings about staying away from me. You don’t have to stay away from me. I will be staying away. I will not be attending the award shows this season. You have nothing more to fear from me. This “party” is over.

If you have been harmed by me and wish to talk to me about it, I am here to listen and make amends if possible.

Thank you I've read her apology on twitter from TRAS themselves, but I do agree she most probably has PTSD I can imagine from being in the porn industry for so long.. what bothered me is the dismissiveness in calling her unhinged because of her writing style? have they not read Kathy acker she writes similarly to her. And I'm so sorry to hear your abuser didn't take responsibly for what he's done to you which must've been horrible to go through

Thank you.

Keep in mind when the TRAs read her work, they aren't looking to understand her point of view. They are looking to attack her. What can they use to attack her.

With Maya Forstater - they lied and lied and repeated the lies until people thought it was the truth. They said "she had a transgender coworker and misgendered them!" The reality was she misgendered a non-binary individual online, and apologized for it. The truth doesn't matter.

Most people on twitter will only read the excerpts that were selected for them to read - and taken out of context, when she says she's died before - they think that's "crazy" because they didn't read the full article or the Cliff Notes - they have no idea what she means. She's clearly not dead, therefore, she must have lost connection with reality?

There is a lot in there that taken out of context sounds pretty off the wall - it's a lot of exaggeration and hyperbole and I love that kind of talk, I use it too, and I know I get a lot of flack online constantly:

"There were NOT A MILLION X"...

Come on, I was using an exaggeration so obvious it was one... aka hyperbole... and not literally meaning "one million"...

[–] [Deleted] 21 points Edited

I fail to see how she’s “making us look bad” considering she doesn’t call herself a feminist. Conservatives/alt right/trolls/male comedians/gay men also being gender critical doesn’t “make us look bad” either because we aren’t any of those things. The whole damn world is mostly “gender critical” because it’s rooted in biological reality. Being GC is just part of feminism, not the whole deal.

I see a very angry woman who finally had enough and is venting. She’s speaking for herself, not us and power to her even if I didn’t agree with every single sentence. We should be angry. I agree. I am angry too. She had a lot of good points even if the language was vulgar and raw (something I actually find refreshing in all honesty).

Yes, it seems to be the TRAs and perhaps mainstream media are trying to label her as a radical feminist, when she is very clearly not, given her ongoing involvement in porn.

There are also attempts to suggest this piece is no different than an incel man's manifesto, and yet coming from the same men who wouldn't call out this kind of behavior or the actual violence these men commit.

I certainly don't agree with everything she wrote, but her writing style made me think of powerful feminist pieces I read in the 1990s, filled with rage and very deep feeling, and using very strong language. If people actually believe that she's going to go out and commit the violent acts she writes, then they are fools and idiots.

This is a really naïve take. You can write powerfully (see: Dworkin) without calling for violence.

This is also my take on it.

She can be angry. She should be angry. She can use any kind of language she wants, vulgar or not. Being a porn star (or ex porn star I'm not sure) is not a problem.

Calling for violence against trans people IS a problem.

[–] [Deleted] 13 points Edited

It's honestly worrying to me to see anyone here not agreeing with this.

I don’t think she is seriously calling for actual violence. I took that as the hyperbole of polemic to exhort us to stop being namby pamby placaters.

I agree. I saw the TRA tweets saying she was calling for the "mass murder" of trans women and went back and reread and I did not take it in that manner at all.

Probably.

But unfortunately, everything WE say is scrutinized and weaponized to the nth degree while TRA's can literally advocate for murder and rape and get away with it. It's just not a good look when they take it (in or out of context) and makes it very hard for us to argue that we're not the ones issuing threats.

[–] [Deleted] 18 points Edited

Also people seem to be unaware that she accepts being called a rapist because she accepts she hurt people. None of the other women, and men involved in porn will own up to the fact that they too are rapists. She was a prostitute, payed to act out fetish for men. If you know what goes on behind the scenes then you fucking know the men behind the camera are often pressuring or outright forcing these women to commit these acts.

I've seen other women say their fellow actresses didn't want to do something and yet they did it(one woman says they didn't want to be fingered up the ass as that was not discussed and guess what she ended up doing it to them). I've seen women talk about blood being wiped off their ass during takes. I've read worse then this too.

Come the fuck on now, please be aware of the true inhumanity of this industry. It's not as easy as her being the bad egg, they all were and at least she go out. The rest are still hurting each other in the name of male pleasure, still forced to work for a shit system.

I thought what she had to say was powerful. We can't ignore women's voices just because they are rough. Being a women is rough. I don't have to agree with everything a woman has said or done to find value in her words. Every female perspective is important to me. The blog post that was copied here the other day just showed me how much we all have in common as women. She's deep into porn culture, but she still sees the truth of the trans madness. Obviously she has done bad things that she admits to and feels remorse for. That doesn't take away her credibility. Hell, how many men have done equal or worse and feel no remorse and face no consquences? How many male creators of any kind have committed sexual abuse and rape that we never hear about and we continue to support their work and listen to their voices? How many men do we know personally who have committed crimes we'll never know about but we still allow them in our lives? I find absolutely nothing wrong with reading the perspective of a woman deep in the pits of the worst patriarchy has to offer, and I will continue to fight so that other women never have to face the evils that she has.

These are the women we should be fighting for as well and providing exists for, making them feel safe and understood if not we're just pushing them away from our movements that are intended to help all kinds of women

[–] [Deleted] 14 points Edited

Lot of women on here talk about fighting for and caring for those prostituted women, and yet they're balking when they're shown the reality of what that life can do to a person. She's not perfect, she's what came out of that abuse and degradation and you know what that's valid, we'll still fight for her liberation too.

I 100% agree. I've spent more time around broken women in bad situations than whole women living fulfilling lives. In fact I have been a broken girl in one bad situation after another, so I feel a kinship towards women like this. Truth can be ugly and hard to hear. Victims are not perfect people, nor can we expect them to be. They deserve our compassion regardless.

That's what's happening here imo, she's not the sanitized version of a woman, and there's a disconnect with people here because of that.

How many men have written fictional accounts of the rape and murder of women with slavering delight? How much philosophy and religion has been written in absolute seriousness about how women should be controlled and killed if they don’t submit? Lily Cade is showing us the price of all kinds of misogyny. She’s paid that price. We are supposed to be for her too. She unequivocally stated that women are her people and her tribe. How many of us have done the same?

[–] bumpyjerboa 15 points Edited

One thing I haven't seen mentioned or discussed is that JKR was completely calm, rational, and level in her writing of her big piece about this and TRAs levelled the exact same claims against her - that she wanted all trans people murdered.

I do wish Cade had chosen her words a little more carefully but honestly, no matter what anyone says in criticizing TRAs, those accusations will fly, won't they? A beloved children's author is painted as being just as "murderous" as a former porn star and admitted rapist.

It's not really about the words anyone chooses, it's about the fact that they are choosing words at all to express that they do not agree with the trans movement.

Amen to that sister. Amen. Placating doesn’t really work. Thanks to the other women here who pointed out that this is what trauma looks like.

I can't get specific, but I've known Lily Cade in real life as a casual acquaintance. I haven't spoken to her in a long time, but I know her. Her porn career took a lot from her. It was both her creative peak and her personal downfall. I know she's tried in various ways the last few years to get her life in order outside of porn and things weren't going too badly. I suspect her recent manifestos are a low key form of self harm, her last ditch effort to burn the Lily Cade persona to the ground publicly. She's stood up for herself mostly alone for so long that I think she was aiming for the shock value as well as the catharsis of unleashing her honest thoughts. I wasn't aware of the assault allegations, though I don't think that issue negates her other experiences as fucked up as it all is.

[–] LOriginedumonde 10 points Edited

I haven’t seen this explicitly mentioned in either post but I think that a lot of women are just disappointed with how things played out. A problem that we’ve been screaming about for so long was finally addressed in a mainstream media article and its disappointing that instead of people focusing on the TIM rape victims mentioned in the article, people are only focusing on the woman who has been a victim and perpetrator of rape, who has said that TIMs should be lynched (be it metaphorical or not), and who was included in the article purely for the historical context of the “cotton ceiling.”

Its just the same old “wOmEn RaPe AnD aRe ViOlEnT ToO” that is always used to discredit women who speak out against their rapists and male violence. That’s not Lily’s fault, or any of our faults, it’s the fault of society at large. Women should be allowed to be upset and to grieve over the way things played out, and that we will be associated with this regardless of the fact that she is one woman out of thousands who are speaking out against this evil ideology. In a perfect world normal people (not TRAs) should be able to distinguish Lily’s actions and words as her own, but in our fucked up world full of dense followers, that’s just not realistic and it fucking sucks that humanity has allowed ourselves to become this way.

We need to just keep going around the TRAs. Ignore them and keep marching on. Honestly, I wish all GC women and feminists would just stop paying a single iota of attention to the TRAs on twitter and just do our own thing, powerfully and without worrying about how they spin it.

Exactly. Unfortunately what TRAs do and say does bleeds over into the real world; however, that is rapidly changing. This would have been a big issue if it had happened just one or two years earlier. I personally don’t have any social media besides Ovarit but I can understand why women are apprehensive when TRA tweets have been taken as gospel for so long. They’re losing power and we definitely shouldn’t be giving their belligerent rants any mind, but we also shouldn't knock women for still being somewhat fearful after everything that we’ve been through. We just have to keep pushing forward.

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