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Two weeks ago, I decided to talk to my high school guidance counsellor to fix something online. While she was checking her computer, I said “this is unrelated, but what are the staff here going to do about non-transitioned trans-students in the female restrooms?”

She asked me to clarify, so I repeated that I wanted to know whether or not male-appearing trans girls were allowed in the girls’ restroom. She asked if it was happening, so I said “I heard TIM1 saying she was in it, and a lot of girls mentioned seeing TIM2.”

She said “well… I get where you’re coming from for asking; but yes, they are allowed,” oh no. “I understand if you’re uncomfortable, so there’s a unisex bathroom that you can use instead.”

After that, she asked for my opinion, so I said “I think they’re girls trapped in male bodies, but I also think male-sexed people should go into the male bathrooms, regardless of gender. I mean, HRT-TIM is at least understandable, since she looks like a girl.” He does not.

She just said “ah, that way of thinking is getting less common these days…” in a mildly-judging tone, then went back to the topic I came there for. When I left, she reminded me where the unisex bathroom was and said it was probably best to go there, so the TIMs don't make me uncomfortable and I don't accidentally make them uncomfortable.

That answer was expected, but hearing it was so different than just simply knowing it's the case. :(

At least, a friend and I are going to the superintendent together over this - I know it’s unlikely anything will be done, but it’s still worth a try. Plus, she's very popular and I'm known for being a shy person; so if we get detentions for wasting their time/'bullying' the TIMs, people would be pissed.

Two weeks ago, I decided to talk to my high school guidance counsellor to fix something online. While she was checking her computer, I said “this is unrelated, but what are the staff here going to do about non-transitioned trans-students in the female restrooms?” She asked me to clarify, so I repeated that I wanted to know whether or not male-appearing trans girls were allowed in the girls’ restroom. She asked if it was happening, so I said “I heard TIM1 saying she was in it, and a lot of girls mentioned seeing TIM2.” She said “well… I get where you’re coming from for asking; but yes, they are allowed,” oh no. “I understand if you’re uncomfortable, so there’s a unisex bathroom that you can use instead.” After that, she asked for my opinion, so I said “I think they’re girls trapped in male bodies, but I also think male-sexed people should go into the male bathrooms, regardless of gender. I mean, HRT-TIM is at least understandable, since she looks like a girl.” >! He does not. !< She just said “ah, that way of thinking is getting less common these days…” in a mildly-judging tone, then went back to the topic I came there for. When I left, she reminded me where the unisex bathroom was and said it was probably best to go there, so the TIMs don't make me uncomfortable and I don't accidentally make them uncomfortable. That answer was expected, but hearing it was so different than just simply knowing it's the case. :( At least, a friend and I are going to the superintendent together over this - I know it’s unlikely anything will be done, but it’s still worth a try. Plus, she's very popular and I'm known for being a shy person; so if we get detentions for wasting their time/'bullying' the TIMs, people would be *pissed.*

105 comments

What’s the difference? The girls bathrooms are unisex now too.

The only difference is that unisex bathrooms are less ~VaLiDaTiNg~ for TIM genderfeels than girls toilets. So you're slightly less likely to deal with TIMs there.

For now. After a while the girls' bathroom will be only for the TIMs while the girls all use the unisex bathroom. The TIMs won't feel "validated" (aka, aroused) by the experience anymore and will insist on going to wherever the girls are.

High school teacher here. Please continue making noise. I’ve raised concerns, only to be told that kids aren’t uncomfortable sharing space the way we old biddies are (I’m 49). I know it’s rank bullshit, but would LOVE the girls in my school to make a huge scene.

[–] hedy 14 points

Not all that long ago grown women regularly tolerated open sexual harrassment at work. No kids are fucking well not more comfortable with "sharing space". As misguided as plenty of liberal feminist thinking is, girls and women today tolerate a whole lot less crap from men, provided that they're allowed to identify (and not reflectively afraid to perceive) them as men.

[–] dove [OP] ฅ₍⸍⸌̣ʷ̣̫⸍̣⸌₎ฅ 1 points

Facts, even 'male' TIFs are saying "fuck cis men," or "kill all men (not trans men)!"

[–] dove [OP] ฅ₍⸍⸌̣ʷ̣̫⸍̣⸌₎ฅ 14 points

Aw it sounds to frustrating to be a teacher right now, I'm sorry that you have to deal with this. I'm going to continue even if nothing happens, that absolutely is bullshit that we don't care/aren't uncomfortable and it's so irritating that they'd speak for us.

I think some sincerely believe discomfort is outdated because girls are afraid to speak up. My school implemented the law (schools must permit students to use the bathroom confirming with their gender identity, even if that changes) by keeping the boys/girls rooms and taking at least one male faculty bathroom away and making it unisex (thereby requiring male teachers in some parts of the school to share the bathroom with, well, anybody - including students). I think the school cynically realized women teachers would freak, and put the burden on the men instead. I take issue with it either way.

[–] dove [OP] ฅ₍⸍⸌̣ʷ̣̫⸍̣⸌₎ฅ 1 points

They took away a faculty bathroom? That's so stupid, and the way they chose a male one is so telling lmao. I feel so bad for young GCfems and girls in general; if the trans cult ever dies down, they'll immediately think back to how fucked up it was when they were younger.

[–] BlackCirce 🔮🐖🐖🐖 67 points

“ah, that way of thinking is getting less common these days…”

Ominous af

“ah, that way of thinking is getting less common these days…”

[–] dove [OP] ฅ₍⸍⸌̣ʷ̣̫⸍̣⸌₎ฅ 36 points

Lmao ikr, it came off as longing for the past/mildly TERF-y and then I got caught off-guard by the "go to the unisex bathroom instead, you make the heckin' valid TIMs in the girls restroom feel uncomfortable :(."

also holy fuck TRA Tournament Match creator responded to my Ovarit post, I can die happy

I don't even think that's true, I think it's a cope. More and more people are peaking, especially the more people being confronted with the fact that most Tims are heterosexual males with a strong predilection for fetishizing all sorts of crap and being porn-fried. The only thing is a lot of people still falsely believe Tims are just gay2.

Damn, I’m proud of you for speaking up for girls. One would think the fucking guidance counselor knows it’s developmentally normal for teenagers to test boundaries so giving them this type of leeway (with bathrooms of all things!!) makes conflict inevitable.

Just to add unsolicited advice, try your hardest to remain calm and calculated (grey rock) when making your case to the superintendent because it will magnify even the slightest bit of hostility your opponents show.

[–] dove [OP] ฅ₍⸍⸌̣ʷ̣̫⸍̣⸌₎ฅ 25 points

Thank you so much! Also the advice isn't unsoliciated at all, I really appreciate it! :D I'm good at grey-rocking, but my friend who I'm going with gets pissed off easily, so I'll probably have to ask her if she'll let me do most of the talking (since I'm the one researching facts for this and she's more affected by it due to being in sports and dealing with TIMs there).

Awesome, you seem to have put in a lot of effort to be prepared. I doubt any TRAs/supporters at school have done as much!

Still, I can’t say it enough: The more straightforward you are, the more their bullshit circular logic will spiral into a frenzy. Good luck, I hope you regain privacy for yourself and all the girls socialized to minimize their discomfort with this stupid policy.

[–] dove [OP] ฅ₍⸍⸌̣ʷ̣̫⸍̣⸌₎ฅ 16 points

Thank you! I did a small presentation for my public speaking teacher (on trans medical care) a while back and actually got told I was over-prepared because I answered most of his questions with exact statistics and where they were from instead of just "oh well, I think it's X," lmao :D.

I'm just using facts to back up specific points, not facts alone, so that there's proof that we're not saying "MTFs harm women" in a malicious way. I'll try to call our token HRT TIM a 'real transgirl' and say we need to let 'her' stay and get the others out, as he'll graduate soon and he's only one actually trying to be feminine. I hope someday that policies will include that girls can have complete privacy from men, even ones on hormones.

That makes no sense. "If you're uncomfortable sharing a bathroom with male people, share a bathroom with male people."

[–] dove [OP] ฅ₍⸍⸌̣ʷ̣̫⸍̣⸌₎ฅ 25 points

Exactly! The unisex bathroom is actually a cubicle, so it doesn't need to shared due to being a single person space, but it's incredibly inconvenient to walk to (my classes are mostly in the end of the highschool hallway - the bathroom is in the middle of the office, which is near the entrance of the school - so walking there and back takes an insanely long time). It also likely doesn't have any tampons or pads, so it's not as ideal as the conveniently placed female restrooms with period products right next to my classes.

Does it have a bin for tampons and pads? I mean, if not, I'd just leave them on the floor, not your fault if they make an allegedly unisex bathroom and design it for males ...

(Of course, littering the floor would be most effective if boys occasionally do use it. Do they?)

[–] dove [OP] ฅ₍⸍⸌̣ʷ̣̫⸍̣⸌₎ฅ 3 points

I'm not sure whether it has a bin or not, but I doubt boys have used it - they don't have anyone invading their spaces. I might decide to switch to tampons and then attempt to flush it in there out of spite ;D!

Yes. Go during lessons and take a ridiculously long time. When you're challenged, explain you have to walk allll the way across school and why. If several girls start regularly doing this the teachers will notice and have to discuss how to manage it.

[–] dove [OP] ฅ₍⸍⸌̣ʷ̣̫⸍̣⸌₎ฅ 2 points

I think they'll 'manage' it by detentions, but if enough girls stop caring about detentions then they'll have to figure something else out.

You underestimate misogyny, if they can sacrifice girls' education on the altar of male feelings, they'll do it with a smile on their faces

So there are toilets for boys, toilets for anyone, and no toilets for girls.

[–] dove [OP] ฅ₍⸍⸌̣ʷ̣̫⸍̣⸌₎ฅ 8 points

Toilets for staff members, too. The only restroom where students cannot change their identities to invade. :(

You should identify as a teacher, then ;)

[–] dove [OP] ฅ₍⸍⸌̣ʷ̣̫⸍̣⸌₎ฅ 13 points

If you look at a scan of my brain next to a female teacher's brain and the average teenage boy's brain, it's more similar to the teacher's. Checkmate, facultyphobes!

Can staff members use students’ toilets? A TIM teacher somewhere wanted to use the girls’ toilets.

That's so messed up. In my country we dont use the students bathrooms, and its not normal to want to.

[–] dove [OP] ฅ₍⸍⸌̣ʷ̣̫⸍̣⸌₎ฅ 1 points

Oh god, that's repulsive. They can, most teachers at my school use the student restrooms since they're close, but some of them choose to only use the staff restrooms due to them being cleaner (they get someone to watch their class meanwhile because it takes a long time to walk there). I have no idea why a staff member would ever use a student restroom if the staff one was nearby, and there's no reason why a TIM should ever be with female students when they know for a fact they have other options.

you know I think a lot of schools are also adopting this policy because they know TIM are at much higher risk of being bullied by other boys and would physically be able to hold their own in the girl's toilet. I'd ask them the unspoken questions:

Why is a TIM not safe using the boy's toilet? Why arent the boys being expected to provide safe and accommodating spaces like us? How come your expectations are lower for boys? Can't they be good friends & allies? If you want a better society shouldn't boys be taught to be more tolerant of other boys' ways of expressing themselves? If a girl is having a very distressing episode with her periods, bleeding, or a miscarriage - why should that have to happen in front of a TIM

And as a follow-up, "If boys are dangerous to other male-bodied people who have similar strength and power, why aren't girls supposed to be afraid of male-bodied people who have MORE strength and power than girls?"

[–] dove [OP] ฅ₍⸍⸌̣ʷ̣̫⸍̣⸌₎ฅ 10 points

Ikr! And one of the girls is pregnant (probably - she hasn't taken a test yet) at the moment, she shouldn't have to be hormonal AND have to deal with men in her spaces. If trans girls are girls without being biological girls, they can still be girls even if they use male spaces, so including them in our spaces is useless.

There was probably a time when schools were afraid of lawsuits and would have told the boys NO you cannot go in the girls' room. EVER.

Hell, just in my younger days NOBODY thought you could change sex! (Yes, a few HSTS had radical surgery, but they were few and not in your face with period fetishes or claiming to be lesbians.)

so I said “I think they’re girls trapped in male bodies

I don't understand saying that. They're MALES in MALE bodies.

I feel like huge numbers of females need to announce "we're not coming to school anymore" -- shut this stuff down.

Full female boycott would shut down society, unfortunately males have destroyed female class consciousness.

[–] dove [OP] ฅ₍⸍⸌̣ʷ̣̫⸍̣⸌₎ฅ 16 points

I meant that in a "they're just like biological women and TWAW; however, they have dicks and must be banished to the dick-haver room," way. I don't actually believe that it's possible. I miss back when we made fun of stargender people, I can barely even imagine a time where nobody thought sex-changes were possible.

I don't think the freshmen nor sophomores care about this, so I don't think they'd be interested in skipping. I'm trying to peak as many of my classmates as possible and get them to start caring or tell their parents in hopes that something will be done, it seems to kind of be working. It doesn't seem like it's anywhere near enough to shut this down, no matter how many of them begin to vaguely start caring. :(

I don't think the freshmen nor sophomores care about this, so I don't think they'd be interested in skipping.

You'd be surprised at the amount of people and type of people who actually do care. Just because it seems like they don't doesn't mean they don't. They just might be afraid to voice their concerns like a lot of people are right now. Just look at what happened with the schools in Virginia and how They walked out to protest.

[–] dove [OP] ฅ₍⸍⸌̣ʷ̣̫⸍̣⸌₎ฅ 1 points

That's a really good point! I'll try to get my friend (who knows the lower grades) to ask around for their opinions - there might be more than I assumed at first.

[–] VestalVirgin 29 points Edited

If nothing is done after you complain, identify as male and use the male restroom.

Once it makes the males uncomfortable, something might be done.

Plus, it's safer. The men who still use the men's room after getting permission to trample all over women's spaces? They really just want to pee. No one will put up secret cameras in the men's room.

Edit: She is worried you might make the TIMs uncomfortable? Hm. Perhaps you could try that. If they're the young gay kind of TIM (not the AGP one) talking very loudly about periods might offend them enough to get rid?

[–] dove [OP] ฅ₍⸍⸌̣ʷ̣̫⸍̣⸌₎ฅ 14 points

Yes! Sadly, they're the normie-AGP and spicy bisexual-AGP kinds, so periods won't scare them away, but asking them for quarters to buy tampons could make them 'dysphoric' LMAO. I.e., "can I have a quarter for a tampon? You don't even have periods, what could you possibly use a single quarter for that would be more important than giving it to a girl - I mean, another girl?*"

I can't go to the male restrooms, the underclassmen scare me (not physically, just... what is wrong with 14-15yo boys?), and one of my peers charges money for guys to use the stalls and guards them lmao. Also, my female socialization doesn't want to make men feel uncomfortable, either, even if it's a fun concept lmao.

[–] wafflegaff 5 points Edited

what is wrong with 14-15yo boys

It's one of a male's most unfortunate life phases. You are wise to want to keep your distance. Someday you'll look back on this question and understand it as a rhetorical one. ;-)

my female socialization doesn't want to make men feel uncomfortable, either, even if it's a fun concept lmao.

It's a pity your elders can't just go in and do this for you, because I am pretty sure a bunch of us would be all over it. I know I would.

[–] dove [OP] ฅ₍⸍⸌̣ʷ̣̫⸍̣⸌₎ฅ 3 points

Actually... yeah, facts. Perhaps making a small TERF gang and guarding the male restrooms until they say "trans women are men, stan JK Rowling," would be effective! At least, then someone would start to care.

You and your friend are very brave for standing up for yourselves and your peers. I have such little hope for young people to go against the gender woo, so to see this post fills me with a bit of hope ❤

[–] dove [OP] ฅ₍⸍⸌̣ʷ̣̫⸍̣⸌₎ฅ 18 points

Thank you so much! I know quite a few young anti-gender-woo people, but most of them just don't care enough and go along with it anyway :(. I love how supportive the people on Ovarit are towards younger GCfems. <3

yeah. I was once sexually harrassed and they moved me across the room into the corner. I was the one told to leave.

[–] dove [OP] ฅ₍⸍⸌̣ʷ̣̫⸍̣⸌₎ฅ 13 points

That's absolutely disgusting, I'm so sorry that happened to you! I hope you're doing better now, you deserve to feel safe and not isolated.

I'm fantastic now, thank you! as much as we all can be with all this shit going on of course. I will never forget the cruelty of men though and that's something that helped teach me about men in power and what the underling men can learn from such an event.

[–] dove [OP] ฅ₍⸍⸌̣ʷ̣̫⸍̣⸌₎ฅ 3 points

I'm so glad! It's amazing to hear that you were able to overcome it and use it as a learning experience to stay aware in the future, even if the situation was traumatic like that. <3

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