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[–] BogHag 31 points Edited

Predatory, abusive, and/or dangerous covers an extremely wide band of behaviors and attitudes. Unless you're looking for general feelings, you're not really going to get a clear picture of say, "What percentage of AGP do you think will commit a sexual crime in his lifetime?"

The idea behind AGP is predatory. It's fetishizing. It's pornified. The ideologies that support AGP are by their nature gaslighting and belittling women. Is autogynephelia itself dangerous? It's dangerous in the way it enables those with extreme fetishes to erodes women's sex protected rights. It's dangerous to the protection of women and children.

Even if you don't think each and every autogynephile is specifically committing crimes, autogynephilia as a paraphilia is inherently harmful in that it fetishizes a marginalized group and wears their oppression as a costume, further degrading them. How many are predatory, abusive, and/or dangerous? All of them. They're autogynephiles. It comes with the territory. Will they all break the law or commit crimes against specific individuals? Probably not, but they will at significantly higher rates than the rest of the male population without paraphilias.

The autogynephiles I met always seemed to hate women in an envious sort of way. They then justified their mistreatment of women as "equality," since they claim to be women too on the inside.

I met several autogynephiles in my personal life who fetishized and idolized the idea of being humiliated like women, and the idea of being sexually violated was a big aspect of their "feminine gender identity". By defining that desire as part of "being a woman," it becomes clear what sort of men they are. I would never trust a man who thinks that women exist to be treated like that.

Talking with them is a head trip, because if you say "wait, no, that's not what being a woman is like at all!", they turn around and suggest maybe you're a man or nonbinary if you don't agree. While I hope that some have a bit more self-awareness and aren't like that, the most abusive people I have ever met have all been sexist autogynephiles.

Ah yes, "an open mouth, an expectant asshole, blank, blank eyes".

This raises the question of what's "abusive" or "dangerous" and how. For example I've read about men who transitioned after feeling envious of their female partners for being pregnant. I'd imagine having a dad who's jealous of mom on the basis of her fundamental biology can't not be harmful, in no way can that not affect how the parents parent the child and how the father relates to the kid, but I also don't know the dynamics involved. Maybe the kid has two moms and that's that, but under the circumstances I kind of doubt it. I'm particularly worried for that kid on all sorts of levels if she's female.

[–] Tq231442 Cervix owner 4 points

I can't imagine finding pregnant me erotic, what with my constant farting, hemorrhoids, and shoving my face full of food all day. My husband thought it was cute, but I was carrying his child. These people are so bizarre.

Even if they aren’t abusing kids, they’re probably emotionally abusing their wives. I’ve witnessed it.

The venn diagram of sexual predators and men with paraphilias would be a circle.

My guess is, most of them.

At least those who brag about their autogynephilia in public.

It's a deeply sick and twisted thing, to fetishize the feminine gender role, the submission that goes with it, to the point of being sexually aroused by it.

Perhaps it is possible for a boy who is surrounded by patriarchy and porn to be socialized into fetishizing the symbols of the subjugation of women without actively seeking it out. But if at any point in time he realizes that women are human, he is going to find such a fetish to be incompatible with functioning as decent human being in society, and be ashamed of it and want to develop a healthy sexuality instead.

So yeah, AGPs are at least as dangerous as very aggressively macho men. It's basically a sign of patriarchal socialisation.

It depends on how you define “predatory”, “abusive” and “dangerous.” Is it predatory and/or abusive for an AGP (or any TIM) to force his way into women’s spaces? I’d argue that it is. Especially when those spaces are for women at their most vulnerable, such as the recent example of the TIM invading a female-only rape crisis group.

AGPs are doing this stuff to get off and they’re forcing women to go along with it. Rules are being bent and laws are being changed to accommodate them, so yes, I think every AGP who takes advantage of that is predatory and abusive.

As for being dangerous (will hurt, rape or kill) I think the number is going to be higher than for normal men. Maybe a bit higher, maybe a lot higher. That would be really hard to answer without more research.

As for being dangerous (will hurt, rape or kill) I think the number is going to be higher than for normal men. Maybe a bit higher, maybe a lot higher. That would be really hard to answer without more research.

And you know they're going to cover that up. One way they're trying to hide these stats is by recording them as women's crimes!

It can't be stressed enough that AGP hate women. They hate us. Is someone who hates you more likely to harm you?

[+] [Deleted] 1 points

There was a comment by an AGP on a (now deleted) Mumsnet thread that gave me a lightbulb moment; he was arguing that women are AGPs when we get dressed and stand in front of a mirror. According to him, women get a frisson from dressing as women in feminine clothing. And I suddenly 'got it' in a way I hadn't before; they tell themselves 'this is what women do' so that when they do it, it makes the pretense more realistic.

Maybe this is why they get so angry with us online? They can't control our responses as easily as they can when we talk face to face. Its easier for us to be bolshy and put unwanted ideas into their heads. They dont get as much useable material from us, especially as they can't see us.

[+] [Deleted] 13 points

As Ray Blanchard points out, vanishingly few women struggle with unwanted genital arousal every time they put on women's garments, whereas this is a common woe for AGPs. I’m willing to entertain the proposition that a minority of females have sexual paraphilias that to a degree mimic AGP—ironically enough, this seems to occur in some trans-identified females—but I think that female (pseudo-)AGP never fully operates like male AGP, and it’s certainly not standard female sexuality.

Yeah, I remember some crazy TIM on Reddit asking if masculine women get off to wearing boxer shorts (wtf). That's when I started to understand the level of depravity here.

[–] hmimperialtortie AGP = evil 10 points

All of them. Even the so-called good ones who criticise those other AGPs. The concept is inherently abusive.

[–] actualdyke 9 points Edited

AGP in and of itself is predatory and certainly dangerous to women. how many AGPs are actually going to act upon that predatory mentality and harm women? i don't know (although it certainly seems like a lot). but how many AGPs are inherently predatory and dangerous to women? yeah, it's all of them. you literally cannot be an AGP if you don't fetishize, sexualize, obsess over, and deeply hate and disrespect women.

edit: and how could i forget to mention how it's basically impossible to have AGP without other paraphilias as well. from what i've seen of AGPs the most common ones are (auto)pedophilia and bestiality. so not only is AGP bad enough on its own, it almost always indicates even deeper and further levels of depravity and danger to others.

There was something somewhat related i saw recently that male prisoners who identify as transgender are registered sex offenders at a rate of 21%, whereas other men at 15% https://t.co/CpPcmqMr5Z

I doubt we will get accurate statistics any time soon about this because of the stigma against naming transgender predators. From my own experience, it was really not too long after a TIM i knew announced he was trans and his eventual disgrace and removal from the bdsm business he created because of predator behavior. So, at least in that case the stigma or the abuse was more important than his identity.

That paper you cited was published in 2009, and relies on research done in 2008 or before. So it in no way represents the situation today, 13 years later when there's been such a huge boom in people coming out as trans since 2014 or so.The paper also says that in the CA prison population in 2008

The majority of transgender inmates are sexually attracted to men(81.9%), but a considerable minority indicated being attracted to both men and women (15.6%). Only 1.3% of transgender inmates reported being sexually attracted exclusively to women.

This is the complete opposite of the sexual orientation of TIMS in general both in 2008 and today. The vast majority of TIMs - 75% at least - are AGPs sexually attracted to women; only a minority are attracted to males.

The stats from the paper you cite about the percentages of homosexual TIMs in prison in CA in 2008 being registered sex offenders would indicate that homosexual TIMs have a higher rate of sex offending than the general population of incarcerated males. But when AGPs are added in, I would think the percentages who are convicted sex offenders would be far higher.

Looking at the TIMs in the UK in recent years (2017-20), the rates of sex offending is much higher. The stats released by the Ministry of Justice show that, depending on the year, 48-59% of TIMs in prison in England and Wales have been convicted of sex crimes. Compared to 17-19% of the overall male prison population there.

Ministry of Justice show that, depending on the year, 48-59% of TIMs in prison in England and Wales have been convicted of sex crimes.

That's interesting, they're between three times and double as likely. The proportion of crime in general has more sex crimes in it. With all the drug charges and how our judges don't take sex crimes seriously in USA, i suspect it'd more indicative of our respective legal systems then men's behavior.

I suspect it's more or less the same percentage as it is for other heterosexual men.

I'll bet it's way higher. Paraphilic men usually have abusive attitudes and it's inherently abusive to force your wife to call you by female pronouns, and order your kids to start calling you mom.

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