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45 comments

Why can anyone afford to be cowardly? When you're not affected. It's no surprise that the men most public in their opposition to gender ideology are fathers of daughters. Or Graham Linehan for example, and this is not criticism but simply a fact, got involved after TRAs came to cancel him. So he was affected because they ended his career in legacy media.

The better question would be why so many men, who are aware of what is going on, are cheering it on in a cynical way, i.e. those who seem to watch with enjoyment "the left / feminism destroying itself". It's good that this article is addressing them. Cynicism is a form of cowardice.

By the way, I've identified as left-wing my whole adult (+adolescent) life, but since actually delving into materialist class analysis over the last couple years, I've come to believe that the left-right distinction in politics is as contrived as gender and only really helps to uphold the status quo. Of course I still have principles and didn't simply switch to the other team, but I also understand now why leftist politics --not in their idealized form but as they actually exist-- are so unpopular. Transgenderism isn't really a left-right issue, but the left-wing of the ruling elite vs all people who still live in reality.

I am stumbling towards the same conclusion are you have . . . I call myself an independent because there are things I love and hate about the left, and things I love and hate about the right. I feel so homeless! I keep imagining that if people like me could find each other, we'd discover we were the real majority and would have real power! But the false left-right divide keeps us divided and powerless for our capitalist overlords.

Some women seem to think that siding with conservatives or right-wingers against the trans lobby is somehow like supping with the devil, but if conservative men can openly support lesbians and radfems in this way then we need to be much more hands across the aisle with them.

No. Please familiarize yourself with Dreher's other work (in particular his fawning approach to Orban and other ethno-nationalist leaders in Eastern Europe). As with Tucker Carlson, gender critical feminists who ally with Dreher and other friends of the alt-right will be tarred as crypto white supremacists and the alliance will be used to undermine us (as it has been already). We do not need to gain the support of the right to stop gender ideology, as we already have it. We need the support of political moderates and the left. Every time we publicly ally ourselves with a far right talking head or pundit like Dreher, we push moderates and liberals who would otherwise be open to gender critical arguments away.

Lie down with dogs, get up with fleas.

Preach, sister! We need to stay as far away from conservatives as possible -- they are not allies. They are anti-gender ideology because they are controlling misogynists, not because they actually understand (nor care about) how gender ideology harms women and girls.

Thanks for this. I enjoyed most of this piece (for something written by a man, anyway) but I’m not familiar enough with the author to realize he’s Tucker-tier. I’m still glad to see conservatives talking to each other about this issue in a sensible way but yeah, that doesn’t mean we need to be part of their conversation.

No. This man is clearly seeing this as an opportunity to justify male heroics and ego trips under the guise of “women need us to protect them from TRAs.”

It’s like the “protect and provide” bullshit. Men create the danger and scarcity for women. Then they get to be elevated as heroes if they throw scraps our way.

We don’t need men in this movement. If they want to support, instead of writing articles that make them feel like a Keanu Reeves character, they can start having conversations with other men. And fighting for women’s liberation in ALL areas, including uncomfortable and unsexy ones like participating in household and relationship management. And not getting all the depraved sex acts they feel entitled to.

I wouldn't say Dreher supports lesbians. He likes using radfems and lesbians to back up his arguments against trans, but I've seen essays where he conflates trans rights with gay rights as the same poisonous march of corruption.

Strange bedfellows indeed. Dempsey breaks down the complicated alliance between feminist abolitionists and conservative/religious abolitionists to end the sex trade really well. I fully agree that it's not without trade offs. In the sex trade fight, feminists abolitionists see ending the trade as an important part of dismantling patriarchy while conservative abolitionists see it as critical to upholding it. I don't know how we reconcile this and still haven't made up my mind about whether "lying down with dogs" is the way to go. I do know, however, that in the US at least, we would not have able to resist all of the policy changes we've been to thus far were it not for this "unholy" alliance (and esp the funding that it brings). What a complicated mess.

Does wanting to be protected by men mesh with radfem ideals?

I’m not educated enough to answer this, but I generally agree with radfems about almost everything and this article’s premise makes me sick. Absolutely not.

Does wanting to be protected by men mesh with radfem ideals?

Men are 50% of the population. Like it or not, we need their support if we're going to push back against this shit politically

[–] hmimperialtortie AGP = evil 11 points Edited

A fucking drag queen in a church?

Demolish the bloody place.

I’m starting to think “male bodied” is not a great term. It almost implies there’s something about them that isn’t male. They’re MEN.

Yeah. It drives me nuts every time they say "biological male" as if there were any other kind.

Who on earth is a. Serious enough about religion to get their kids into church clothes on weekend mornings and make financial donations regularly and yet b. Frivolous enough about religion to be into Pastor Stripperella here? I just do not understand why there is anybody in the overlap of that particular Venn diagram.

[–] pennygadget 6 points Edited

Who on earth is a. Serious enough about religion to get their kids into church clothes on weekend mornings and make financial donations regularly and yet b. Frivolous enough about religion to be into Pastor Stripperella here?

The people who have rejected religion but are still attached to the culture & rituals of the church. So they create new sects of secular groups that pic and choose the warm and fuzzy aspects of the faith while ignoring the parts that would condemn a man in a dress lecturing children about his queerness

I believe the old fashioned term for them is "Cafeteria Catholics"

[–] hmimperialtortie AGP = evil 4 points

The only mob I would have thought even slightly likely to allow this shit would be the Unitarian Universalists, who hardly even rate as a religion from what I know of them (which admittedly isn’t much).

My Quaker monthly meeting (congregation) has been utterly captured and pozzed beyond belief with this shit. I stopped attending because there were TIMs in there being fawned and feted over, and so many handmaidens in there with pronouns in their bios tripping over themselves to be the biggest "ally" aka ball gargler of them all. I felt like it was such a violation. Quakers are supposed to use logic and rational thought, but that is out the window now. Virtue twerking at every meeting... I couldn't do it anymore.

[–] vulvapeople 2 points Edited

There are many congregations of historically conservative Protestant denominations that behave much like Unitarians these days. I've heard of similar attitudes from Methodist, Lutheran, and Congregationalist congregations. Congregationalists were the Puritans 400 years ago.

It's likely a combination of institutional capture and a misguided attempt to draw in young adults with wokeness.

OMG, this is the very definition of sanity. Some day we may thank Liar Thomas for peaking so many.

Men aren't cowardly. Men just don't care enough until it comes for their daughters or their balls.

On the other hand, does the Bostock ruling tie SCOTUS’s hands in this matter?

Republicans spent the Trump presidency watching him commit 10 felonies a day in full public view, but once they get the chance to do some good for once, it's time for hand wringing about following every detail of the letter of the law. It is to laugh.

But in general this article was good. We need normal people of both sexes to help join the fight. If he needs to couch it in the "find your balls, man!" style that will resonate with men who pride themselves on being productive members of society then so be it.

This piece is more effective, pointed, and passionate than almost all the rare gc criticism coming from the liberal/left.

Speaking of the “cowardly” males that Dreher challenges, what ever happened to traditional Protestantism? (Drag Queens in a Lutheran pulpit) It just might serves as a bulwark on this issue, if hadn’t caved to the white evangelicals who, if they take on this issue at all, do so in a scattershot & narrow way.

[–] hmimperialtortie AGP = evil 4 points

Can you imagine Luther’s reaction if he saw that? If he didn’t die of apoplexy on the spot he’d be nailing a lot more than theses to the door.

The comments are all over the place, but Dreher's essay is good.

At least he's open-minded enough to give credit where credit is due: to radical feminists and lesbians. He's clearly done his homework.

I do not agree with him on everything obviously but can vouch that he’s a good person. I’d take his company any day over that of a lot of men who vote more like me.

Of course you would, and men like him know that. The existence of such depraved and disgusting evil men makes men like Dreher seem good by comparison. Trans ideology also does this and allows him to LARP as a hero who can save the women.

Or, y’know, there can be good people whom we genuinely like while disagreeing with them strongly on some issues.

I refuse to consider everyone who does not share my politics to be somehow immoral. You can’t have a society or a democracy if too many people think that way, as the US is starting to discover.