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They invest so much in their transition, and make highly detailed videos about what they've experienced. But try debating with any of them and it quickly becomes apparent to me that they have a very superficial understanding of what they are doing. They can basically only recite the bullet points on the informed consent forms but they don't know what any of it means. Common things I've seen:

  1. Poor understanding of research. "We don't have any research to say that it DOES harm you!" First of all, we do, but even if we didn't, that's not evidence that wrecking your hormones is a safe thing to do. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

  2. A belief that unethical doctors are extremely rare, and CERTAINLY never found in the transgender healthcare field! Even if they do acknowledge bad ethics en masse, they view it as historical atrocity. Or, they act like the opioid crisis and transition treatments don't come from the same field.

  3. Very vague knowledge of what hormones do. They know how hormones can change appearance but don't know what else they do for the body.

  4. Baaaaarely wikipedia level of understanding of DSDs.

  5. They think individual features all come together so that they will pass. "Some men are short." "Some men have big butts." "Some men don't grow much facial hair." They don't realize that individual features don't overrule the entire presentation. Humans can easily tell the difference between a short man and a tall woman. And there's a recitation vibe to it- like they are repeating what doctors have told them. It feels like these doctors are trying to convince TIFs that if they retain very female features, they will still pass.

  6. Early hysterectomies and the link to dementia is always news to them. "I have NEVER heard that." That's their dismissal, too, to imply that you're a nut with weird beliefs.

Maybe detransitioners can weigh in, here. But I just don't think doctors do a thorough job, helping their patients fully understand their new medications. Isaac, a detrans TIM, recorded his therapist being glib and shady. I know that's just his therapist and not his doctor. But combined with the way TIFs discuss this online, it seems like doctors in the gender business don't fully inform. As a habit. Dr. Gallagher feigns transparency by talking about her surgical techniques- "wee little chonkies-" but does she talk about dementia?

They invest so much in their transition, and make highly detailed videos about what they've experienced. But try debating with any of them and it quickly becomes apparent to me that they have a very superficial understanding of what they are doing. They can basically only recite the bullet points on the informed consent forms but they don't know what any of it means. Common things I've seen: 1. Poor understanding of research. "We don't have any research to say that it DOES harm you!" First of all, we do, but even if we didn't, that's not evidence that wrecking your hormones is a safe thing to do. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. 2. A belief that unethical doctors are extremely rare, and CERTAINLY never found in the transgender healthcare field! Even if they do acknowledge bad ethics en masse, they view it as historical atrocity. Or, they act like the opioid crisis and transition treatments don't come from the same field. 3. Very vague knowledge of what hormones do. They know how hormones can change appearance but don't know what else they do for the body. 4. Baaaaarely wikipedia level of understanding of DSDs. 5. They think individual features all come together so that they will pass. "Some men are short." "Some men have big butts." "Some men don't grow much facial hair." They don't realize that individual features don't overrule the entire presentation. Humans can easily tell the difference between a short man and a tall woman. And there's a recitation vibe to it- like they are repeating what doctors have told them. It feels like these doctors are trying to convince TIFs that if they retain very female features, they will still pass. 6. Early hysterectomies and the link to dementia is always news to them. "I have NEVER heard that." That's their dismissal, too, to imply that you're a nut with weird beliefs. Maybe detransitioners can weigh in, here. But I just don't think doctors do a thorough job, helping their patients fully understand their new medications. Isaac, a detrans TIM, recorded his therapist being glib and shady. I know that's just his therapist and not his doctor. But combined with the way TIFs discuss this online, it seems like doctors in the gender business don't fully inform. As a habit. Dr. Gallagher feigns transparency by talking about her surgical techniques- "wee little chonkies-" but does she talk about dementia?

42 comments

I think it’s outright denial.

We are impulsive creatures, we want what we want and we want it now. We don’t think about long term consequences in a way that holds much weight.

I have endometriosis and adenomyosis and am overly familiar with hormone treatment options ranging from basic female hormones out to things like danazol, Lupron, visanne, etc. I KNOW first hand the damage some of these hormones have done to me and my fellow endo warriors.

Think I can tell a damned TRA anything about hormones I have been a lab test subject for for the last 25 years? No. We’re just dumb women.

They deny things like Lupron have any long term issues when it regularly fully sterilizes women.

Nope. I’m wrong. I have to be wrong. Because If im not wrong they have to face reality and these fucking people can’t handle reality.

I, a grown ass women, who is currently living in an unimaginable amount (and trust me when I say I’ve had enough pain to last me 25 lifetimes) of physical, mental, and emotional pain, will not touch fucking Lupron with a ten foot goddamned pole to help myself, maybe I might know more than you think or know!!!

It’s poison. It’s chemotherapy!!! It’s meant for prostate cancer, breast cancer. It doesn’t even help women with endometriosis!!! They just want to sell the damned pills to people, their health and outcomes be damned.

I have a female friend who was sent into chemically-induced early menopause after her damaged ovaries completely failed when she was given Lupron for endometriosis in her 30s. She is in her 60s now and had been on life-long HRT after this happened and didn't want to cease it because every time she did (even at the time women would usually go through menopause) it was hellish. She ended up with breast cancer (luckily unaggressive and caught at a very early stage) and had to stop the HRT cold turkey as her doctors feared it would increase the chance of reoccurence and so she went through cancer treatment and a non-natural menopause at the same time... I told her they give Lupron to trans kids and she was shocked out of her mind, she had no fucking clue that's the kind of shit they gave them.

Yes exactly! And we’re grown adults with larger mature bodies. I never had Lupron but I had another treatment called danazol, and although it did suppress my symptoms I also lost breast tissue, my voice lowered, and I now grow a beard, my liver was damaged, my bone density was affected. Luckily my ovaries didn’t lose function even though the dr left me on it for 5x the recommended length.

I went through menopause when they started me on it, that’s no fun at all. These drugs should be left to do what they were meant to: suppress cancer in life or death situations.

[–] Tq231442 Cervix owner 8 points

I'm so sorry you're in pain, sister. I don't suffer chronic pain and can only imagine what a nightmare it is.

I'm sorry to hear your struggle. Thankfully I do not have endometriosis, but I have had my own trials with allopathic medicine when it comes to women's health. It is like that part of medicine is stuck in the dark ages.

Have you tried a naturopathic doctor (definitely do a lot of research on who) or acupuncture? I had very good (lab verified) results from trying a alternative treatment for cervical dysplasia after a LEEP procedure didn't work and left me in pain and they just wanted to keep cutting away at the problem...

They get their Information from each other. It's a social contagion after all. They see their friends or the people on tiktok, youtube, twitter or tumblr being happy with their transition, at least on the surface, and they identify with these women. They too are not like other women, they in fact have no idea what it feels like to be a woman, not realizing that no woman "feels like a woman", we just are. Or they talk to their friends, who talk about being trans every goddamn day. You know how we all are astonished every time trans people only talk about being trans? Yeah, that not only means it's one of their only hobbies/identities. I noticed that recruits people with low self-esteem, makes them doubt their own sex. So in the end they all get their Information from their friends or Youtube/Influencer of choice. Now the top results on search engines don't even mention any of the side effects and list none of the actual research, only what they'd want to hear and make pharmacies tons of cash in the end.

The only time I saw TIFs consider research that goes against the narrative was from other trans people, and even then they cling to being trans.

Source: Saw it happen like this in friend groups.

[+] [Deleted] 7 points

So in the end they all get their Information from their friends

I have noticed this in my TIF family member. They are really quick to believe essentially everything that comes across their dashboard, and are shocked when it falls apart with just a modicum of googling. She has no idea how going on testosterone will affect her, and hasn't seem to have given any thought to how it will interact with her swath of existing mental difficulties.

Yep, this is exactly what lead me to find detrans lesbians and then radical feminism -- my therapist and other healthcare professionals who were so very encouraging for me to "just try it" wrt taking T could not describe the effects, side effects, or the health risks at all... It was very sus and my little paranoid anti-big pharma alarm bells were going off... Lead me down the rabbit hole online to find anyone talking about it seriously who wasn't a far-right lunatic homophobe... The rest is herstory.

I think the dishonesty and obnoxiously cheerful ignorance from the therapists and doctors is why plenty of transmasc women are one distrustful internet search away from becoming radfems.

my therapist and other healthcare professionals who were so very encouraging for me to "just try it" wrt taking T

"Just try it"!?!!?

I used to work in pharmacy before this trans madness took over. Female pharmacists were advised to wear gloves when handling any testosterone meds (ESPECIALLY the gels) because even a little accidental exposure could fuck them up permanently. And men who needed those meds were advised to be cautious about touching other people after applying the gel.

T isn't something you "just try out" like its an exotic food. The fact that medical professionals are saying shit like this to people is outrageous. Holy shit.....

Yeah.. it's been quite a few years since this happened to me but they would say "well you can just go on T and stop if you don't like it" as if it wasn't completely unpredictable and some things irreversible.. the therapist was especially cavalier about it but I was in and out of their offices for being a known flight risk back in those days so I think they were on that "obviously all this distress is bc she's a trans man so if she doesn't transition she's going to kermit" logic.

healthcare professionals suggesting you just try T? WTF?

[–] homosuperior 17 points Edited

YUP. There’s a semi popular TIF on Instagram, Luke W Pearson , and she had literally no idea that you have drains in after top surgery (this is about a week before her surgery in an IG live), she had no idea why after months on hormones she was having severe pelvic cramping that meant she couldn’t stand up. Don’t even think she knows that she needs a hysterectomy at some stage.

She’s less than a year into transition, now has no nipples just scarred lopsided areolas, keloid raised scarring like shoelaces, she’s gained loads of weight, has big rings under her eyes and posts the worst trans “bro science” I’ve ever seen, seemingly having no idea of how hormones work whatsoever. She also calls herself a straight male (despite being an open lesbian and in a lesbian relationship), and seemingly hasn’t linked her dad calling her a “gay loser” with her need to try and be straight via trans conversion therapy, but I digress …..

[–] goodyusername Team Terflair 7 points

That sounds nightmarish.

It’s so strange, I followed her pre transition and the moment she started sharing that her dad was ridiculing her for being gay, I said to my girlfriend “I bet she’s going to come out as trans in the next year or two”. My girlfriend wasn’t so sure because she was so hyper feminine (hair extensions, fake nails etc), but within 3 months she was talking about her male soul. I have a natural hormone disorder, produce 3x the amount of testosterone I should. I have no idea how these girls cannot connect the dots of their declining health and testosterone shots. They’re intravenous drug addicts.

Everyone has made some good points here. I wonder though if there's something at play here about female socialization and medicine.

You see it elsewhere, I think, maybe not to the same extent. But I was shocked at how many women just go with what their OB (and later paediatrician) says - like, yes, let's induce a primagravida at 39 weeks for no reason except the ARRIVE trial! Oops, she wasn't ready and it turned into an "emergency" c section - phew, thank heavens the OB was there!! When they probably could have politely declined and had a non traumatic labour at 41+5 or whatever is average for a first timer, perfectly fine. But no, OB is handing down the Gospel and should be obeyed without question, and the fact that inducing a primagravida raises her risk of caesarean by 50% isn't widely known.

I just tried reading up on the ARRIVE trial and the first hit was an article where the first paragraph discusses which “people” were eligible for the trial, without mentioning the words “women”, “pregnant” or “mother” even once! (A site called Evidence based birth).

Oh that site. Yes, fully given to the gender woo. If aliens were reading the web trying to understand humans, they would really struggle to work out how we reproduce, I think!

Because most of them are so young. Their puberties seem to be the triggering event for a lot of them. 13 - 16 years-old are not really self aware at that age.

The transitions are something they can all focus on. Which is why their Trans timelines are important to them.

There isn't a lot of curiosity about their bodies, because they are trying to remove everything Female about their bodies including hysterectomy.

17 years ago this would have been girls diagnosed with body dysmorphia. They would have been self harmers with other underlying mental illness problems.

I certainly thing age is a factor with some, but for me the linking factor across all ages is ignorance and a lack of curiosity.

I know one transitioning NB woman, she’s in her early 30s and she is one of the most uneducated people I know, despite being a graduate. She asks a lot of questions and you think she’s a curious person, but she never seeks out information on her own. She’s not stupid, if you give her info she can process it, but she puts it through zero filters in her own brain and discards it if it’s uninteresting to her.

People like her are primed for this movement, or any movement where you need to look at it uncritically to believe. I believe social media is successfully grabbing these people and brainwashing them on dozens of topics at all times. Tweet after tweet about how vulnerable trans people are, and they’ll just believe it because there is no impetus for them to find out more and they don’t ever question anything.

This is the way of ALL religions. Promise them paradise, in knowing a simple truth that will set them free. That they can be anything they imagine including men.

Judith Habersham a Queer Theorists has slowly been deconstructing her body. I'm her 50th year she had top surgery. In 2018 she had the audacity to encourage Feminist to lean into their Femininity.

Someone posited that Gen Z was going to fight this war of Ideologies. I doubt this is going to happen, because the 50% of their generation are being raised in Conservative households in the US.

All the Federal Courts have a majority GOP seated. They have SCOTUS and now the passing Draconian laws to suppress the vote. Gerrymandering is icing on this authoritative cake.

Anglophone Countries are trying to pass Draconian laws to permanently silence Gender Heretics.

We will win some major victories. Eventually wine he war. But it will be at a real cost.

The young age and naiveness of many TIFs is a factor, but I've also been shocked by how little knowledge and curiosity about medical matters that older TIFs have displayed - like Scott Newgent, Buck Angel and TIFs who are behind Gender Dysphoria Alliance. Newgent and Angel got educated after they experienced disastrous health consequences, but the GDA women seem willfully naive to me. Lots of "learned helplessness" at work.

TIPs seem to evince the same kind of denial that occurs with drug and alcohol addiction, and the same kind of "take it all on faith"attitude that you see with religious and cult true believers.

[–] BogHag 1 points Edited

They all seem so shocked when the strictures start. I would have thought, given how common they are, that covering that risk would be an essential part of the process. That is, if the doctors playing Mr. Potatohead with healthy urinary and reproductive systems gave a haggard shit about the long term health and well being of their guinea pigs.

There's a tendency towards being over trusting and naïve, especially towards people they perceive as being experts or parental figures. Is it accepted here that many TIFs are likely on the autistic spectrum? I'm not sure where I first came across that idea, but I definitely think it makes sense.

The therapists from the podcast Gender: A Wider Lens often say that trans people, especially when they're young, are too afraid to grow up because adulthood is hard. I'm poorly paraphrasing, of course, but assuming this is the case, it's no surprise they believe these doctors blindly.

I wish people would specifically mention the young girls afraid to grow into adulthood, and WHY that is (misogyny, sexualization, dehumanization) rather than using these broad terms. I really think that we need to focus on how misogyny has caused ALL of this if we ever hope to fix it.

On #6, far too many women are unaware of the SE of having hysterectomies - it's sometimes been seen as a right to demand a doc remove organs, and indicative of a lack of respect when people question a woman's free choice on the matter, rather than possibly good medical advice. It may sometimes be motivated by a lack of respect, of course, but as you say, hysterectomies are a bad idea for a lot of reasons and should be avoided unless completely necessary. It's not just easy birth control. So we are badly informed all over the place, not just when it comes to trying to remodel from one sex to the other.

I think this is a problem all throughout American/ Capitalist culture. The whole notion of "rights" has been merged with the idea of desires, so that people think it's their right to have whatever they want - more or less as long as it's something that could be provided without directly hurting others. Thinking about how realistic it is to get for everyone who would want it, how necessary it really is, and how beneficial it would be for the larger culture, all gets put aside - if people say they want optional surgeries, high speed internet, medical marijuana, then it's a human right. Don't worry about the fact that there are still parts of the US that don't have clean water...

Anyway, definitely people get sold a fantasy and then insist it's their right to have it, without critically addressing if it's a good idea, for them individually or the whole society. Does feel a bit like "decadence of the Romans..."

Honestly, I don't think the TIMs are much better in terms of researching these treatments before jumping into them. Its just more obviously damaging for the TIFs because hormones hit them MUCH harder than it does the boys who take estrogen

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