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The article itself has already been linked in this forum, I’m surprised there is so little discussion here? There are well over 600 comments from NYT readers and almost all are pushing back on transition of children (and the broader gender propaganda movement). Many speaking from firsthand experience. Some even echoing exactly the sentiments of GOP legislation (these interventions should be illegal for minors, etc).

Apologies if this post is inappropriate/a duplicate, but want to make sure people are aware of this great response! The article itself was fine although left out a lot of important information and was too deferential to pro-transition arguments. But, baby steps.

The article itself has already been linked in this forum, I’m surprised there is so little discussion here? There are well over 600 comments from NYT readers and almost all are pushing back on transition of children (and the broader gender propaganda movement). Many speaking from firsthand experience. Some even echoing exactly the sentiments of GOP legislation (these interventions should be illegal for minors, etc). Apologies if this post is inappropriate/a duplicate, but want to make sure people are aware of this great response! The article itself was fine although left out a lot of important information and was too deferential to pro-transition arguments. But, baby steps.

51 comments

[–] Free_Metis RadFemMcGonagall 91 points

I really liked this comment (emphasis mine):

As a 50 year-old female seeking a standard surgical procedure to improve the appearance of my drooping eyelids, I was required to fill out a psychological questionaire. The purpose was to access my expectations, including took unrealistic ideations about what the surgery would achieve. For instance, if I believed the surgery would greatly enhance my love life - that would be considered a red flag. Given the comparatively higher risks of hormone therapy and non-reversible gender reassignment surgery, along with the known emotional changes inherent in adolescence, surely, an assessment by a qualified mental health professional is in the best interest of any teenager seeking gender reassignment therapy. As for such an assessment opening the door to suicide by delaying treatment for a week or two, the opposite is true. Any teenager on the brink of suicide needs a psychologist more than they need a surgeon.

This comment was perfect and it totally sums up the double standards in "trans healthcare" vs every other form of medical care.

Children are being fast tracked towards irreversible treatments and surgeries for entirely cosmetic reasons. And many insurance plans are forced to cover it. Meanwhile, I know multiple people who have fought for YEARS just to....

...get a breast reduction to alleviate back pain

....get basic dental care so they won't be in dentures in their 40s.

....get various minor & major surgeries for things like sinus issues, facial deformities, etc without having to pay thousands out of pocket

....not have to pay hundreds of dollars per month for drugs like insulin that they would LITERALLY DIE WITHOUT!

I've personally spent the past 3 years leaping through hoops to prove to my insurance that I really need a sinus procedure that would greatly improve my quality of life by allowing me to, y'know, breathe better. But a thirteen year old only has to say, "I'm trans! And I'll totally kill myself if you don't give me hormones and top surgery!!", and she's rushed into whatever she asks for. It's an outrage and its completely unfair to people with actual medical needs

I have a bartholin cyst that keeps coming back and no doctor will just remove the gland which means once every 2-3 years I am awake while they slice into my genitals to drain it then have a month long recovery period after which I have to carefully plan sex and masturbation so that it will be another 2 years before my cyst fills and fills til sex is uncomfortable/impossible again. but yeah. something about their tiddie surgery 🙄 I cannot believe this is the world we live in.

Ugh, I'm so sorry to hear that. I used to have that fucking surgery every 4-6 months. It's just horrible. I finally found someone who would take it out and even after getting a hematoma from the surgery, it was still such a relief. 5 years later and I haven't missed it for a moment. I hope you can find someone to help you. I remember how hard it was getting a doctor to take my pain seriously, even with a tennis ball sized lump on my freaking genitals. I'm sorry you're dealing with this.

COMPLETELY agree! My husband needs dental work done on some dying teeth - but the costs are out of pocket and currently out of our budget, so he deals w/ the pain and I worry they'll get infected and he'll have to deal w/ blood poisoning.

The state of dental care in this country is horrible. Even WITH insurance, basic care costs so much out of pocket

[–] Texture 1 points Edited

Have you tried telling them you'll kill yourself without the sinus surgery? Seems to work! /s

Have you tried telling them you'll kill yourself without the sinus surgery? Seems to work! /s

I'd have to claim that the sinus procedure helps my gender dysphoria. If I'm not trans, they'll just put me in a psyche ward for threatening suicide. LOL

Yes! I was literally bleeding to death but it took over a year to get the hysterectomy I needed, but they were fine with blood transfusions! Oh no,but not removing the uterus that bled non-stop 24/7 every day without pause, not menstrual!

Ugh

Oh no,but not removing the uterus that bled non-stop 24/7 every day without pause, not menstrual!

Insurance companies prefer temporary, band-aid solutions like meds and blood transfusions over an expensive surgery that would fix the problem permanently. I hate being dependent on medications and getting constant infections because of my sinus issues. But the medical system prefers it that way because we're generating more profit for them.

I think that's why they're so eager to cover trans nonsense. Trans surgeries & hormones cripple healthy bodies and make them dependent on meds and additional surgeries forever. And there's no objective metrics for success because trans is a mental illness, not a physical one

This is a great take::

The rhetorical gymnastics in this topic are astounding. “Gender” and “gender identity” are now treated as more immutable characteristics than sex. Somehow literal conversion therapy (aka gender affirming) is being pushed as the best option while organic human development is recast as “forcing puberty.”

And this person backed up the stats:

In 2015, Dr. Richard Friedman, the Time's columnist on psychiatry, wrote that the accepted rate of severe gender dysphoria was 0.005%, one out of 20,000 Americans

This same thing is happening at the WaPo as they have put up 2 articles now on Lia Thomas and the comments are OVERWHELMINGLY past peak.

[–] gryffinterf252 21 points Edited

I think this comment is important, I haven't heard this take laid out so clearly before:

Some info on transgender lobbies and the medical/pharmaceutical lobbies, which are closely intertwined. A lot of the huge donations to governments and other entities globally on behalf of trans causes come from people with ties to medical and pharmaceutical companies. Jon Stryker is just one example ("Ballotpedia identified Stryker, a donor to several Democratic politicians, as a “top influencer by state” in 2016. [15], from this source: https://www.influencewatch.org/person/jon-stryker/). Here is an article about the powerful and organized lobbying tactics and the law firms and other entities behind them: https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-document-that-reveals-the-remarkable-tactics-of-trans-lobbyists. This article goes deeper into individual donors' ties: https://thefederalist.com/2018/02/20/rich-white-men-institutionalizing-transgender-ideology/. This market report summary reviews market growth projections (in the billions) for gender surgeries: https://www.gminsights.com/pressrelease/sex-reassignment-surgery-market. That does not include the market for hormones and puberty blockers, which is another multi-million/billion dollar growth projection area.

and one reply said: (emphasis is mine)

Do the research suggested above. This subject is about the money that can, and is, being made the whole trans movement. Those who buy into the woke idea that there is gender fluidity and see the majority of trans identified males (or females) as victims of discrimination are mistaken. They are, in fact, victims of the greed of the institutions noted above.

[–] Owl 1 points

Don't know if you're familiar with Jennifer Bilek and her 11th hour blog, (she wrote the Federalist article listed above also), but she's been writing about the gender medical industry for several years and she's laid all of this out in detail. https://www.the11thhourblog.com/post/who-owns-big-pharma-and-the-billionaires-invested-in-the-gender-industry

Do you think this is why WHO is spreading this nonsense and Ideological language?

Queer Theory formally started in the US but it's basis are the ideas of Foucault. It is part of the religion that is Gender Ideology. It's the metaphysics of the individual.

It got exported to the Anglophone Countries first. Then it was exported to Pakistan, which is currently in a " Westernized version of Trans Liberation. By proximity is seeping into India.

Of course it also are also spreading across the rest of Europe. Attached to it was the Cotton Ceiling Debate. Which seems to indicate that a lot more Straight men are identifying as Trans.

I never saw the money part of. This has driven political policies changing with most of them affecting women and girls.

I thought Foucault was interesting when I first encountered him years ago (some of his ideas re: mental illness were challenging) UNTIL I learned about him. He was very disturbed (as I'm sure you know). But the idea that someone who was so strange and his ideas so profoundly dangerous (child-sex) has taken hold..........

:(

I posted the wapo article on a democratic board (been a member for more than a decade) and

  • was banned.

I really hope the heavy-handed silencing is BECAUSE they are going to lose and a sign of weakness.

Oh no! That is so outrageous. Even the POSTING of a very tame article gets someone banned? My god, has everyone forgotten the Red Guard, the Stasi, Kymer Rouge re-education?

Thinking people should at least wish to address this - even if you think all TiMs belong in women's sports, you should be able to acknowledge that not everyone agrees with you and maybe a strategic discussion on how the Democrats should position this is needed. I'm in Democrat and Progressive political groups and am afraid to bring this up publically, despite having private conversations with individual members.

Love reading these comments. So many are personal stories from parents that ended up with major problems with their kids who had no history of dysphoria suddenly getting sucked into social media/online influencers. Europe is already scaling back their treatments for children after so many bad outcomes. The major difference is that in the U.S there's a huge capitalism/greed motive to keep these type of treatments and medications going for children (life long medical patients, $$$), while with socialized medicine in Europe these treatments are more easily looked at with a critical eye towards health and care outcomes and less motivated by money. I think for the U.S it is just a matter of time until we see some major class action lawsuits and this child trans scandal becomes a major headline. I'm very sad for the thousands of children that will be irreversible harmed until then.

I’ve said this before, but I think the easier access to transition in the UK and other European countries precipitated the peakening there. Here in the US, with our spotty health care, medical transition is still a relative luxury, which gives it a status it doesn’t have in other countries. The media promotes gender identity as the latest must-have luxury, the new wheatgrass smoothie or infinity pool. The exceptions, and groups that have relatively good healthcare out of proportion to their status, are prisoners, who have obvious reasons to want to move from male prisons into female ones, and members of the military, for whom a switch in gender identity is often a response to trauma.

[–] yikesforever 11 points Edited

We have socialized health care in Canada though. Though perhaps it's because we're more docile and politically apathetic here, idk.

socialized medicine isn't free though. The pharma companies still make bank. It's just that the gov. pays instead of you. It's still profitable for them to push this stuff in countries other than the US.

Here's an example of another comment (on the transgender children article https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/13/health/transgender-teens-hormones.html?smid=em-share) that encapsulates your thoughts:

When this paper is ready (maybe never) to address the issues of girls safety and single sex prisons as playgrounds for men who identify as women, I will finally exhale.

I too read these comments and I came away thinking that gender critical type positions are strongly held by the majority of their readership. They were usually thoughtful, insightful comments motivated by concern. Many of them came from direct experience - parents, teachers, doctors.

I had to go a long way to find a trans activist talking point. The first one was, these treatments are need because otherwise it's really hard to pass and the second was the suicide one we're all used to.

No wonder trans activists want to avoid debate.

For me, this is by now The Peakening 4.0, meaning I've thought there were several other times that The Peak had been reached.

However, you may be right. This could indicate the critical mass needed for "trans rights" to no longer be an unquestioned dogma among the media class.

I personally think this is the pre-Peak, and that there will be a very large, unignorable moment (likely related to sports, possibly in the Olympics) where the whole issue will be presented before the worlds' eyes and the argument will crumble.

Yeah, I agree, I’m definitely not saying this is “the one” mass peak event… unfortunately things are moving in the wrong direction behind the scenes in law/policy. But despite that, or perhaps because of it, I do think public opinion is starting to shift. Sunlight is the best disinfectant, etc… people can’t as easily ignore the obvious lies and fallacies when they experience this IRL as opposed to as a hypothetical.

It is heartening to see that (some) people are also still able to step back and see the influence of sexism and greed/corruption. Maybe the propaganda hasn’t been as effective as we feared.

[–] real_feminist 11 points Edited

There was another article on the same day about 'petulant vulnerability'. I asked people to send feedback in the activism circle. (I suppose people can commenting would be helpful too.) I wasn't sure if I should cross-post that in the GC circle too? https://ovarit.com/o/Activism/59239/send-feedback-to-nyt-on-hypocritical-author

Anyways, I do wonder if the NYT editors were aware of the obvious? How could they not be?! Were they subtly trying to peak people without explicitly saying anything opposed to trans-ideology?

Anyways, I do wonder if the NYT editors were aware of the obvious? How could they not be?! Were they subtly trying to peak people without explicitly saying anything opposed to trans-ideology?

I think the Penn swim team situation has been a very eye-opening experience for chattering class parents who have daughters. I think they can see where this is inevitably leading and they're now going to try to stop it without blatantly calling it out. It seems to be sinking in that this particular luxury belief may have real consequences for their daughters, but they're also terrified to just push back because they know there will be some negative consequences FOR THEMSELVES.

Invasion of women's shelters didn't matter. Invasion of women's prisons didn't matter. Invasion of the very few spaces lesbians have to themselves didn't matter. Women saying "NO" over and over again didn't matter.

Oh, but mess with a bunch of spoiled rich kids and their elite sport teams? Now it's a problem. Well, at least we are more likely to see change now.

[–] hellamomzilla 1 points Edited

This is why the trans religion is a luxury belief. The holders of it are mostly certain that it won't affect THEM or THEIRS.

Also, journalists get the double whammy, though, because they try to push the luxury belief on everyone -- and many of those people WILL be negatively impacted. I am not too broken up about their daughters getting their sport messed up because, while I love sports and I don't like that this is happening, I also think it's the most minor thing going, as you point out. But, the parents think they're better than everyone and that all this is is being "kind" to people and they fail to see the manipulation and sexism and if it takes their daughters losing swimming races at fancy colleges? So be it.

im lazy but will dig if no one has the link readily available but drop it here if you do please!

I've been watching the same thing and it's made me hopeful for children.

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