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I think we've already it peak trans and we're now on the downward slope. In a few years being trans will no longer be trendy and we'll see masses of people detransitioning, lots of surgery regret, and people pretending that they never supported it in the first place.

The reason I believe this is because. 1) comparing now to say 2015, detransition is already a huge thing now. People are becoming more aware of the side effects. The harms of the hormones and surgery. None of this info was available back then. 2) it's a trend. 99% of the people claiming to be trans now are doing it to be cool. As soon as the trend is over they'll drop it very quickly. 3) authoritarian behavior on the part of TRAs. This to me is the primary thing actually keeping the scam going. But also a sign that their views are very unpopular. Acting this authoritarian and trying to force this stuff into everyone is a sign of desperation. No one wants this but a tiny minority.

If not for TRAs and their billionaire backers, this would have been over already. Right now, the reason why it's still being pushed even though no one wants it is because of major financial interests, big pharma, etc. This is a top down movement, not organic. The more people wake up the more obvious that becomes. Even with the growing push back from women, feminists and even some men - it's still being pushed down our throats. Why?

Anyway, this was supposed to be a positive post. I think we've passed the worst stage and can only peak more people from here. Once the great peakening starts, it can't be stopped. Because deep down everyone knows the truth. They've only been playing along for social status points or fear of losing their job.

I think we've already it peak trans and we're now on the downward slope. In a few years being trans will no longer be trendy and we'll see masses of people detransitioning, lots of surgery regret, and people pretending that they never supported it in the first place. The reason I believe this is because. 1) comparing now to say 2015, detransition is already a huge thing now. People are becoming more aware of the side effects. The harms of the hormones and surgery. None of this info was available back then. 2) it's a trend. 99% of the people claiming to be trans now are doing it to be cool. As soon as the trend is over they'll drop it very quickly. 3) authoritarian behavior on the part of TRAs. This to me is the primary thing actually keeping the scam going. But also a sign that their views are very unpopular. Acting this authoritarian and trying to force this stuff into everyone is a sign of desperation. No one wants this but a tiny minority. If not for TRAs and their billionaire backers, this would have been over already. Right now, the reason why it's still being pushed even though no one wants it is because of major financial interests, big pharma, etc. This is a top down movement, not organic. The more people wake up the more obvious that becomes. Even with the growing push back from women, feminists and even some men - it's still being pushed down our throats. Why? Anyway, this was supposed to be a positive post. I think we've passed the worst stage and can only peak more people from here. Once the great peakening starts, it can't be stopped. Because deep down everyone knows the truth. They've only been playing along for social status points or fear of losing their job.

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I think Internet citizens, who in many ways were the first to get saturated in TRA, are peaking. I've seen an enormous change there. I also notice that many feminists who used to passionately fight for trans rights are now quiet.

But - I also see a much larger group of people who are much earlier in their journey. They're just now going from "boys can't be girls!" to "Oh, all the celebrities I like are endorsing this and it's in all my TV shows and it seems like supporting it is what good people do." Their Internetting is Pinterest and Facebook. They'll never know who Buck Angel is or hear about AGP. But from mainstream media, they've gleaned that this is the new gay rights and they want to be cool. Unfortunately, I think it's going to be much harder to reach those people with stories about women raped in prison, because their information intake is so limited to generic news stories.

And I don't think sports will do it. GC people tend to see trans rights as one collective juggernaut of insanity, but I've noticed other people tend to divide it up into things that aren't okay (sports) and things they can turn a blind eye to (males in women's prisons and shelters and locker rooms.) I think we're headed toward a horrible "compromise" where people will agree that TIMs can't be in sports, then a few years after that, be scandalized by sterilized, medicalized kids. But at the same time, women will be expected to shut up and suffer from penises in the locker room, men running for women's awards and invading our communities. It's going to take a lot more effort to roll that back.

I agree, my boomer family members have only recently heard of trans people and say stuff like, "the only reason there are more trans kids these days is because they had to stay in the closet before". They haven't researched it at all, nor do they know any trans people, nor are they on sites like reddit, twitter, tumblr etc to see how abusive and insane TRA's are. I think there is a sizeable portion of young-ish internet dwelling adults who are peaking, but things may continue to get worse overall in the culture before it gets better.

Why do people who know nothing about an issue and haven't done any research even offer an opinion? I avoid offering an opinion if I don't know anything about the subject. Then I go and do some research. Wish this was more common

I think you may be sadly right about prisons and shelters, given the tendency of too many to dismiss those like they're another world entirely (or, worse, like everyone in those places "brought it on themselves").

Locker rooms though, i'm not seeing it. There's just way too many of everybody's daughters and sisters and wives etc. in those rooms for them to just be out-of-sight out-of-mind.

The insanity with prisons and prisoners was sealed the minute we agreed to start treating these men with female hormones while they're in prison. If they've already cut their junk off when they get to prison, they get testosterone replacement therapy in mens prison. Wtf are we placating prisoners with this nonsense? No one is going to die in prison because the state or federal government won't give them "tittle skittles". Didnt Biden just sign yet another xo to mandate transfer of men to womens prisons at a federal level?

There was a leaked document about that. Nothing official yet. And really, maybe the leak was an attempt to gauge reaction.

I don't think peak trans has hit the mainstream yet. I think a lot of previous "allies" are starting to change their minds, which makes sense because after all this time being exposed to the news on the subject, out of interest as allies, they can't ignore what they see. I think a lot of people who saw it happening around them and didn't care either way but assumed the general consensus was pro trans are also starting to see why women are pushing back - or at least they can see there is conflict, people are being cancelled and they understand because they're hearing it all the time "the debate is toxic" - to me that phrase is just an excuse for rape and death threats. It puts the blame on the debate, not the TRAs, and it also discourages people from getting involved.

But, I think there are still loads of people who it doesn't affect who are still oblivious as to what the problems are for women, children and LGB. These are people who have never had to think about how vulnerable they themselves would be in prisons, rape crises centers or DV shelters, hosptital wards. People who have only encountered decent men and have been sheltered from violent abusive men, because single sex spaces have kept them safe so far. People who don't have to prove they would date someone outside of their sexual orientation because they're already in a relationship, or because they're bisexual or heterosexual.

I think we need to get our voices into the public and media more. This year I hope to see more protests, more campaigns, more court cases being won, because I think (after considering how marketing campaigns work, how fads and fashions work: money, psychology, conformity) I see that people tend to let the herd think for them. If they think the herd is pro trans, they will be pro trans. If they think a minority of bigoted women are transphobic, they will join the majority in condemning them. Mob mentality seems to be a survival instinct.

If they could see that the majority are against the erosion of womens, children's and LGB rights, if we could get it into the real world, into the mainstream media, into the streets, schools, etc, they would emphatically (or lazily in some cases) agree with us. People are afraid to be the outlier, to be the minority, to go against the grain. The pro trans movement has campaigned to make people believe the general consensus is that trnas people are special and vulnerable and should have everything they want. Until it's clear that lots of people don't believe that (social proof), they will be afraid to speak up, or afraid to even think about it.

Because people think the "right side of history" is "the general consensus". I've seen those psychology experiments where people copy what everyone else is doing even though it's irrational (there was one where everyone in a waiting room would stand up when a beep happened and the one person who had no idea she was part of the experiment stood up with them, because that's how conformity works. There was another one where a group of men answered questions about which line was the longest one, and most of the men deliberately answered the wrong one, and the oblivious man started to copy their answers, because that's how conformity works. We assume the group knows better than us, the majority must know something we don't, and so we go along with it even if we disagree) hence: we need to show the world that the majority are against this BS.

We assume the group knows better than us, the majority must know something we don't, and so we go along with it even if we disagree) hence: we need to show the world that the majority are against this BS.

Yes. Most people are followers. And sadly, the desire to fit in and be accepted by the group is especially powerful among the demographic (young women) most likely to be permanently ruined by this ideology.

[–] yikesforever 52 points Edited

I still think we're far from it. I think it's still gonna get worse. Woke, left-leaning places are still satuated with it and I don't see it cracking there at all yet. I don't think that's a minority. "Trans" to them is still this gay-adjacent thing that should be celebrated and any slight against it is "transphobic". There are a lot of people who believe this.

People who have stuck their flag on this hill aren't easily going to see the truth and accept they were fools. People who are deep into it have made it their life. I think because we are looking for it, we see rays of light, but people believe in trans because of emotional reasons, not logical ones. The trans movement relies on people's empathetic reponse to their plights of "oppression", not logical arguments because they are all bullshit. They also rely on fear to keep dissenters quiet.

Maybe a lot of it grew as a push from various rich people and companies, but so did diamond rings for weddings and we're still stuck with that.

I still consider myself semi on the left (although not far left any more), and there is some peaking going on here, particularly among people who are homosexuals because we've gotten harassed so much by trans people. The gay people I know are slipping in little gc comments here and there to their friends. It will be hard for TRA's to maintain that "trans rights is the same as gay rights" if there are no gay people on board with them.

I think there is also a broader backlash against wokeism, not just among conservatives, but moderates and liberals realizing that we need to be respectful of different opinions. We can't just lash out and say anyone who has a different opinion or is a member of a different demographic is a nazi and expect to have many allies at the end of the day. It's not over yet, it will continue to wreak more havok, but there's a growing number of people who realize the problems with the constant oppression olympics, we just don't make as many tik toks as the self righteous people do.

[–] Kevina 12 points Edited

We need to teach kids/young adults that its ok to be wrong, or even to just change your mind about something. Mistakes and failure help us to learn and grow, and people aren't "wrong" or "nazis" just because they have a different opinion than you. I was never a TRA but I had never fully considered the impact to womens rights because I never thought they'd go this far, I never thought they'd claim, to actually be us and expect to be allowed to change next to us while sporting wood. I never thought I'd see "trans kids" because wtf such an idea is beyond ridiculous.

Hear me now world, I WAS WRONG. If you're lurking here, it's OK to admit it.

Yeah, it's crazy how fast they've moved the goal posts. I considered myself a trans ally like 15 years ago back when they were like "all I want is for you to show respect by calling me 'Samantha' now rather than 'David'. That won't cost you anything, we're not trying to take anything from you". Now they're trying to take a whole hell of a lot from women, including bodily autonomy and the right to say no to sex. The problem with their movement is there will never be a point where what we've given them is enough, because they will never reach their goal of actually becoming the opposite sex. Instead of coming to terms with that, they'll just keep taking it out on us. It's completely different from the gay rights movement for example, where there were specific, realistic goals like the right to marry, and now that we've gotten it we're happy.

The thing that saddens me is that I know several people, particularly women, who were staunchly left-leaning, now turning more to the right because they can't stand far-left behaviors and their ideologies. I can't stand it either, but I never see myself voting Republican. Throwing names and insults for disagreeing is turning people away, not helping the cause.

Yeah same, the other side isn't an option for me because of the reproductive rights stuff. I'm starting to donate a little to moderate republican primary candidates though. We need common sense moderates in both parties, everything is getting way too extreme at the moment. I blame the internet, it gives too many people a platform who shouldn't really have one, as awful as that sounds. People can lie about things, and crazy gen Z kids spreading hate towards all men, or all white people, or all cis people or whatever are making themselves the face of the left. I don't know how to combat it at this point.

People who have stuck their flag on this hill aren't easily going to see the truth and accept they were fools. People who are deep into it have made it their life.

Those people are not going to back down easily. But there are a lot more people who are passively going along with it. When those people peak, then we'll be in a different place. Kinda like how the republicans had a schism with the hard-core qanon folks.

Kinda like how the republicans had a schism with the hard-core qanon folks.

When did this happen?

The never Trumpers. The Lincoln Project. The mainstream Republicans never denounced qanon as loudly, but they didn't go along with it. I've always gotten the sense it was a bit fringe.

Here's one example: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-congress-conspiracy/u-s-house-condemns-qanon-conspiracy-theory-17-republicans-vote-no-idUSKBN26N372 There might have been 17 that opposed that resolution, but in order to have those number at least 136 republicans must have voted to condemn them. That was in Oct. of 2020, so before the election.

[–] [Deleted] 8 points Edited

Maybe you're right. I don't know. This is really a speculative post.

Maybe a lot of it grew as a push from various rich people and companies, but so did diamond rings for weddings and we're still stuck with that.

The difference is that rich people are funding the trans thing as a gateway to something else. Transgender isn't the end game. So it will go away once they proceed with the agenda. Diamond rings are the end goal for companies selling diamonds.

Yeah. Probably trans-humanism. Unnecessary surgery and pharmaceuticals would make them a lot of money.

What do you think the end game is? Pedophilia? Erasure of gays?

[–] Archie 12 points Edited

I think the end game is much more simple than transhumanism: allowing perverted rich men to live their fantasies in the open, and attack the credibility of the left to eventually destroy unions.

[–] Free_Metis RadFemMcGonagall 39 points

idk. I think the day I can have an open discussion with my best friend about my gender critical views without fear of her cutting ties over it, that will be the day I'll believe we are on the downward slope.

I agree there are a lot of quiet dissenters out there who are towing the line out of fear--I'm one of them. But I think when the majority of dissenters are no longer quiet, when it is no longer a risk to state the fact that a man is not a woman, when the authoritarians are the ones being shut down, that is when the country has hit peak trans.

In the US, which doesn't have the strong feminist Mumsnet site nor reasonable UK conservatives, I always believed sports would be the thing to would peak us. And in many ways, Lia Thomas was a gift to shine a light on this nonsense - an entitled, cocky, white, Ivy League male who thinks the world owes him everything - Americans hate entitlement almost as much as they hate unfairness.

But I don't think we were completely over the hill in the US. We are still dealing with an absolute divide between anyone on the left and the utterly undemocratic, Trump Maga GOP on the right. So, in the US if you are a decent person who knows Trump was a disaster, you're willing to accept most anything if it comes from the more moral side, so the TRAs knew they could sneak in their agenda by taking advantage of the good folks on the left who are too weary from the pandemic to worry about every policy item. Biden and Pelosi need to stop being afraid of the pronoun kids and pay attention - Virginia governor's election was an augury.

The media had better continue on this trajectory because they KNOW they've been silencing their readers and from the comments they let stand the last few days, it's clear the majority of us are not okay w/ men in women's sports or ideological gender woo experiments on children. I imagine there are some feet-stomping WaPo and NYTimes interns who think all the old folks are transphobes, but it's obvious some of them got a talking to this week. About fucking time.

I'm not sure what will peak Canada and I hope it's not something awful - like a mass murder or a rape they can't ignore. Also, France, another champion of the free press and Macron's strong defense of their egalite laws that should reveal how gender is a religion, is currently wrestling with feminists being silenced. Germany is gaining TRAs in government. We may be closer, but it's not over.

And a shout out to Australia for holding the line on that unvaxed Serbian tennis player - entitled men don't ALWAYS get their way. Serena Williams got her vaccine.

Almost no one has heard of Lia Thomas because no news sources that are considered moderate or leftist will cover it. People would peak en masse if they saw a picture of Thomas.

that's partially our job. We have to share articles (preferrably from respected outlets like the NYT) that have full body pictures of these people competing in sports next to their competitors. That is the issue that resonates with men. I'm like a broken record on here, but I really believe that this is the most promising wedge issue in the whole TRA belief system.

WaPo has two stories now on Thomas - and I agree, we need more than the Daily Mail or Fox News in order to persuade people.

Was there an nytimes article that has a picture of Thomas?

I have a few American friends who are very liberal, anti-Trump and conservative, and raging libfems. It sometimes feels like they desperately want to be "on the right side of history", so while they staunchly defended BLM, they're also very TWAW. One of them recently made a post about how feminism is about choice, one step away from women are free to sell their bodies if they so choose.

The whole Djokovic thing, while it was the right thing to do, it kind of felt like it was all about making ScoMo look good in the shadow of the RAT debacle, and all the bad horrible decisions he's made during the pandemic.

The far Right and the far Left are equally nuts. Americans closer to the center are the ones who are apalled.

[–] [Deleted] 8 points Edited

Often they are literally the same people. Like that whole "Nazi to trans pipeline" thing. Then you realize why suddenly the far left became so anti women and anti Semitic.

When men stop getting placed in women's jobs and sports and rape shelters and prisons and people can say "women are adult human females" without needing to worry about losing their jobs, I'll believe it. Until then, we are extremely far from peak trans. Germany and Canada just legislated self ID laws and Liar Thomas is still swimming.

I also think we are very close to that point. The fact that the New York Times, which has been stealth-deleting gender-critical comments for years, finally ran an ultra-cautious and incomplete, but yet not entirely idiotic, piece about transing youth is a real sign. I think parents are waking up to the fact that it’s not actually a good idea for teens to chop off their breasts and penises because Tiktok said it was cool.

That, and, like 99% of their usually-pretty-hard-left commentariat has now shown themselves to be TeamTERF both on sports and on the current topic of underage transitions. That's a damn good sign of where the mainstream is at right now (maybe because they've been pushed there by the insanity, but maybe because they've been there all along and this shit has just been a bridge too far for all but a certain lunatic fringe right from the start).

I always go through ups and downs on this, think something is obviously swinging people and then interact with people who very clearly are not being impacted and feel like there is just a new normal. Right now where I see evidence of the "new normal" is how Amy whatsit is being treated on Jeopardy. There are a lot of very uninvested people with no particular opinion or issue, who have happily accepted that Amy is the highest earning woman in Jeopardy history and that it's rude and politically incorrect to point out that he's actually a guy.

I think things just haven't gone quite 100% mainstream yet. I've usually lived in cities and been part of academic/ artistic cultures so this issue has been on my radar forever, and I have always thought it was problematic but also always hopeful tides were turning when actually they were getting worse. There has been a definite build up of more people being more openly upset about it - but largely because more people have become more widely and deeply accepting of it. So, I can see the idea that we could be climbing toward a peak, but I do not think it's a given. It's super important to consistently point out the obvious and remind people why it matters.

When it was just a fringe thing, I found it mildly disconcerting but just sort of accepted that you can't solve everything. Once Caitlyn Jenner was taken seriously it seemed clear we were going backwards in feminist issues. When high school athletes were getting gaslit and media were doing puff pieces about the stunning and brave cheaters, it was obvious things were turning upside down, and yet saying so was social poison. Now, at least coming out as "Terfy" is kind of a thing, not popular but more of a "oh, you're one of those" rather than shock worthy of suggesting you're a nazi. But whether it will lead to a peak where everyone agrees it was crazy, like the satanic panic or lobotomies, or a sort of constant unsolved issue a la abortion, gun rights, prison reform, maybe anti-vaxxers at this point? , where people feel strongly about their side but shake their heads about the other, isn't clear to me.

"happily accepted that Amy is the highest earning woman in Jeopardy history and that it's rude and politically incorrect to point out that he's actually a guy."

What's really funny are the people who now hold these two thoughts simultaneously in their heads: 1) Of course, Amy Whatsit is a real woman! 2) Oh, that's ridiculous. How can anyone say that Amy Whatsit is the highest winning woman ever?

Like...seriously?

It seems to be on a downturn but in my opinion there has been no qualitative change to the conditions that gave rise to transgenderism, and I don't see it going away until that happens.

I'm thinking of a term to describe these conditions... maybe porno-patriarchy because in my opinion a main difference from older forms of patriarchy is in the suppression of male perversion to some extent. Instead, sexual commodification of women has been increasing at a rapid pace. This is exemplified by the growth of porn, becoming as ubiquitous as the internet, and male perversion flourishing along with it -- all approved by our political system.

But the resistance to transgenderism is very encouraging in terms of people fighting back against the powerful.

I think you are right, but I fear the backlash. I think that the LGB and the radical feminist movement will largely get the blame for this, as though we were not the first to ring the alarm bells. I fear it will be used a justification and an increase for homophobia. I also fear for the safety of women who don't look very feminine and are now sometimes being accused to being "trans".

Yeah. This is already happening and it's scary. We don't deserve the blame for this.

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