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Thomas has already been heard by another teammate bragging about 'coasting' in a race that he won -- and this is why there can be no compromises on male bodies in women's and girls' events at any level. Because they can all just pull a Hubbard and no one will be any the wiser. It's like allowing doping for some athletes and taking them at their word that it doesn't give them an advantage.

Such a joke, and so outrageous and sad that they are turning women's swimming into a farce rather than a dignified competition between women athletes who put their all into achieving sporting excellence.

Even if they didn't collude, the whole thing stinks. The TIF pulling down her swimwear to bare her self-harm scars in some kind of weird, 'look at me!' moment. You would think it would be hard to show any more contempt for women than rejecting womanhood while still competing in their events, but somehow she managed...

This is pretty much what I thought when Thomas lost. Though I figured he purposely lost, I didn't realize he'd actively collude with the TIF.

[–] hufflepuff-poet wytch babe 47 points

How can the NCAA justify both of these people being on a women's swim team? Either the "male woman" needs to get the boot or the "female man" needs to join the men's team. But we know neither of those will happen because women's sports are now just catch-all containers for "non-men" who want to have fun and be active! Fair competition for women and girls be damned.

[–] Eava 26 points

The TIF supposedly has only socially transitioned and has not taken cross sex hormones so she can compete on the women's team. Funny how wanting to swim overcomes the dysphoria and suicidal feelings enough for her to forego hormones.

The dysphoria is oddly correlated with chances of winning! A TIM wanting to win has overwhelming dysphoria that he must compete against women, even when the better he does the more clear it is he is a man and not a woman. A TIF wanting to win is just fine competing among women despite apparently being a man, because she'd get destroyed if she tried to play on the men's team.

If the TIF is just fine swimming as a "man" on the women's team, even being able to refrain from taking cross-sex hormones to do so, why can't Lia Thomas swim as a "woman" on the men's team, while still getting to take his cross-sex hormones? Hmm...

I don't believe for a second that she hasn't taken testosterone in the past.

And if she really has not, then I am VERY concerned about the state of "trans healthcare." I was under the impression that female trans people had to actually prove they were dedicated to transitioning and "living as men" before a surgeon would approve the removal of healthy breasts. And how else to prove their dedication than by adhering to a cross-sex hormone regimen? These surgeons are the same people who won't approve tubal ligations for childless women in their 30s because they "may change their mind," after all. Since she still wants to compete they could/ should have just made her continue to wear her binder, and then she could start hormones after her swimming days are done and THEN get the mastectomy.

If young women can just get their hair cut, shop in the men's section, and change their name and BAM they get approved for needless mastectomy then I really feel for these young people. They are so screwed.

One of the detransitioners on the 60 minutes episode had his testicle cut off after 3 months of being diagnosed as trans and put on hormones. The under 25s are screwed.

They can't justify it. By their own logic, either way, a man won the women's competition. But they don't give a shit. They're just going to steamroll over women.

[–] Althea 6 points Edited

When Jezebel ran an article on a "non-binary" athlete a while ago, they said it would be bigoted not to allow her on the women's team. I actually don't have a problem with her competing against women - the athlete in question was female, and as far as I'm aware she wasn't taking testosterone. But the authors at Jezebel are constantly insisting that sport should be separated by gender identity, not sex. Why, then, should a non-binary athlete compete on the women's team? (The possibility of joining the men's team, incidentally, wasn't even mentioned.)

There was a small window when Jezebel was actually pretty insightful about women's issues, but it's been well over a decade. I imagine they think she should swim on the women's team (but she's not a woman! somehow!) because their writers are too dumb to parse their own argument.

Why do "non binary" of either sex always seem to choose womens things?

Because "women" is now code for "people who don't identify as men". Duh!

My FIL is pretty based and he told us the story of Lia losing to this woman and was like "I bet they cooked this up". Then he said "Who would have thought when you start allowing men to say they're women in sports they would come in and win everything! Never saw it coming!".

I would love for someone to release that Thomas scrotes personal message history with the TiF. And then the NCAA to ban both of them for life for being cheating losers and trying to make a mockery of women’s sports. In a just world this would happen.

Statistics could answer this. Average his times in other races, control for days between races and time (first race of the day, third, etc) and get an average. Stats don’t lie.

[–] LOriginedumonde 30 points Edited

My original comment after the race:

How could anyone with even half a brain not see that this was a stunt? The TIF pulling down her swimwear was such a tell. These narcissistic clowns couldn’t be discreet even if their lives depended on it. I hope that this rightfully gets called out for being comically convenient.

Of fucking course Thomas colluded with the TIF! I also wouldn’t be surprised if it’s found out that TRAs instigated the whole ordeal.

Honestly, I assume every time a TIM unexpectedly loses a competition that it’s on purpose.

[–] goodyusername Team Terflair 8 points

I think in these situations they think they are on the right side of history, so that makes it ok.

Wouldn't surprise me AT ALL. Thomas is a narcissist (the bit about displaying the Penn logo on his chest while all the women on the team covered theirs is pretty telling) and certainly has no problem with cheating.

Urgh, that made my blood boil. They were told to do that since the Penn swim team is famous in a bad way, because of Thomas. The school told them to do that, and sent security with them to keep them safe from any harassment they get because of Thomas. And then Thomas goes and wears Penn gear anyway? He just keeps spitting in their faces! He should be benched the rest of the season just for blatantly disregarding the safety rules and putting his teammates at risk.

Cheaters? Is the NCAA going to investigate?

My guess is they'll investigate the female swimmers to see who spoke to Outkick (check phones, computers, email... etc.) Screenshot this, it's coming.

For sure the coach is going to rake the girls over the coals 😡

[–] Lipsy 1 points Edited

who "they"? and on what authority?

I could see this happening only in one case (which seems unlikely), which would be if the e-mails originated from an official universityname .edu account. In that case, the school IT dept would have admin access to those e-mails—probably even after they're deleted from the student-side account.

Under any other circumstance, a warrant or a subpoena would be needed.

A warrant is out of the question, as there's no probable cause to accuse anybody of a crime here. (Even the collusion itself almost certainly isn't criminal. In a professional sport, or in an amateur sport with prize money at stake, it probably would be, if it could be established beyond a reasonable doubt.)

Moreover—although this is still fledgling law that changes a lot—law enforcement might not be able to look through your phone even WITH a warrant. Last I read about it, the law on this issue was a hot-mess patchwork quilt (e.g. Federal LE could compel you to unlock an iPhone with faceID or touchID, but NOT with a passcode) and i don't know anything about east coast state statutes here, so ymmv but still.

A court could subpoena the information, but, only if /1/ someone had standing to sue—which I'm not seeing here (what tort(s) would be alleged? for what money damages?) ••AND•• /2/ the potential plaintiffs actually knew whom to sue AND could tie anonymous communications back to the defendant(s)—which would mean somehow tracing throwaway burner accounts back to their users, if indeed they had the basic prudence to make throwaway accounts, and without using any forensic methods that would get the evidence disallowed.

[–] BlackCirce 🔮🐖🐖🐖 4 points

The NCAA conducts investigations of possible violations of their legislation.

I was thinking the school would “investigate”.

Though I don’t trust law enforcement not to participate in the charade and trample over these womens rights.

I have no idea about NCAA swimming specifically, but match-fixing to prejudice a third party is generally against the rules.

[–] Lolo 12 points

This article really reminds me why refusing to use mind fuck pronouns is so important. HE, a fucking man, is making a joke women's athletics.

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