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I was incredibly shocked. Because this is someone I've known ever since high school to be rather misogynistic... He was very bitter and would talk about "women playing mind games" all the time.

To the point where I started thinking he was an incel because he would always complain about women not going for shorter men, that no one would give him a chance, and that we're (as women) all superficial. And he was always buying those questionably young-looking tearful anime girl body pillows...creepy. Posting on fb talking about the traits he's looking for in an ideal woman to be worthy of him. All of a sudden he says he's a woman? What? WHAT?

And his reasoning for his realization is:

He says he's finally accepted that he's always been more sensitive and emotional in general, he doesn't feel "manly" and he can't relate to topics his peers discuss.

He says he always preferred pretty things and cute things and being around girls.

He says he likes having long hair and feels more like himself with it.

He feels more at ease wearing women's clothing and presenting as very feminine.

Honestly I kept thinking about it and I just can't come to terms with how superficial those reasons are. And also vaguely insulted? So if I like having short hair, wearing pants, like to play shooter games, and am generally stoic, that means I'm really a guy? And the thing is everyone accepted it! They all messaged things like "you're brave," "I'll always support you ..." Then he literally added just two letters to his name and said not to call him by the old name...but then he notices I'm being quiet and I guess that's not okay to him, because now he's saying I'm less feminine than him and it's not fair... What does that even mean?

The last time I checked, I'm a woman who has experienced sexual harassment, has had to fight to get the same opportunities as men academically/professionally, and never feels completely safe alone outside. Does that sound more like what it means to be a woman? I think it does.

Meanwhile how am I the only one in our group thinking that this is a farce? I know if I say anything to them I'll catch a ton of flak so I can only vent here. Thank you for reading.

I was incredibly shocked. Because this is someone I've known ever since high school to be rather misogynistic... He was very bitter and would talk about "women playing mind games" all the time. To the point where I started thinking he was an incel because he would always complain about women not going for shorter men, that no one would give him a chance, and that we're (as women) all superficial. And he was always buying those questionably young-looking tearful anime girl body pillows...creepy. Posting on fb talking about the traits he's looking for in an ideal woman to be worthy of him. All of a sudden he says he's a woman? What? WHAT? And his reasoning for his realization is: He says he's finally accepted that he's always been more sensitive and emotional in general, he doesn't feel "manly" and he can't relate to topics his peers discuss. He says he always preferred pretty things and cute things and being around girls. He says he likes having long hair and feels more like himself with it. He feels more at ease wearing women's clothing and presenting as very feminine. Honestly I kept thinking about it and I just can't come to terms with how superficial those reasons are. And also vaguely insulted? So if I like having short hair, wearing pants, like to play shooter games, and am generally stoic, that means I'm really a guy? And the thing is everyone accepted it! They all messaged things like "you're brave," "I'll always support you ..." Then he literally added just two letters to his name and said not to call him by the old name...but then he notices I'm being quiet and I guess that's not okay to him, because now he's saying I'm less feminine than him and it's not fair... What does that even mean? The last time I checked, I'm a woman who has experienced sexual harassment, has had to fight to get the same opportunities as men academically/professionally, and never feels completely safe alone outside. Does that sound more like what it means to be a woman? I think it does. Meanwhile how am I the only one in our group thinking that this is a farce? I know if I say anything to them I'll catch a ton of flak so I can only vent here. Thank you for reading.

60 comments

I mean... girlfriend you say incel or misogynist as though they're, like, shocking or unexpected or sth? (i could just be reading you wrong, text-only communication is no friend of mine.)

because they're not, at all. The incel+transfem venn diagram is a small circle (transfems) almost completely contained inside a larger one (incels)—like only the tiniest lil shard escapes outside the incel circle, and most of the people in that slightly-less-pathetic region are Bruce/Caitlyn Jenner's age or at least close. And misogyny, both deep and broad, is pretty much an absolute requirement for entry into the transF brotherhood. (Yep. I said brotherhood. Want me to say it louder? 💖🥰)

.

In order of mention:

• The incel-to-transfem pipeline is absolutely a thing (especially given its constant chicken/egg cycle of reinforcement by the insanely incel-heavy demographics of reddit/4chan/8kun/etc, from which a frightening proportion of these supposed transitioners ("supposed" in the sense that they STILL can't even be bothered to shower more than weekly, let alone actually go for reassignment surgery or put in an honest EFFORT (le fucking gasp! Quelle horreur! What does this unfamiliar term mean exactly?) to feminize their facial looks, gait, wardrobe basics, mannerisms, weirdly blunt and abrupt speech cadences, or complete obliviousness to the needs or wants of anyone other than themselves or their manga-themed waifus AKA body pillows (the latter of whom are usually pretty submissive and don't have tons of demands baha... except they're kinda hard to clean for reasons I shall leave to the reader's fertile 👀 imagination).

• And I mean let's be fucking serious here for a sec, about the inherent misogyny. These are people with literally zero capacity for empathy (or even a negative number for this, if their tendency to project their own feeeeeels onto others is especially obnoxious and aggressive)—so uhm yeah, whence their notion of "feeling like a Woman"? Or, yeah eff it, their notion of a Woman herself in the first place? Porn, horrid regressive stereotypes, and more porn. And more goddam infantilizing stereotypes.

(Remember: GENDER IS STEREOTYPES. That is the whole entirety of what gender is... well okay, it's that, plus conversion therapy for anyone who's gnc or gay/Lesbian or even [[the world does not have enough strings of pearls]] both.)

These guys can't even get away from "I, I, I, me me me me mememeME!" for two milliseconds. There is NO CHANCE they will ever understand that, as Women and Girls, we define our very selves and our place in the world mostly, or even entirely, in terms of reciprocal relationships (Guuuuurl it's like other people exist or something!!!). I mean, fuck, most Female students have to be wheedled, cajoled, carroted and stick'd into using ANY "I statements".

Our fundamental core values have nothing at all in common with these most cognitively male of all males... leaving them with stereotypes. But not even the full boxed set of stereotypes, either—fucking literally just the ones that incels in their mommy's basement can at least pretend to intuit (so bye-bye to all the stereotypes about emotional overtime, GRL PWR in big groups of friends but self-hate and -harm in private, and so on).

Cute slutty outfits! Sucking dick! Really bad makeup that for some reason focuses on Kim K style contouring, which is super extra fucking weird because that's the one single aspect of younger women's MUA whose whole entire purpose is literally to masculinize Female faces (mostly to aspire to the "high cheekbones" look of runway and editorial models—where high cheekbones are one of the most prominent defining features of a higher-testosterone-generated, archetypally MALE face!!) Submissiveness! Stupidity! Emotional histrionics! That's literally all they've got. That is the whole list of "what is a Woman?" in their stunted little world (population: 1).

.

...Don't look now, but.... if we:

• scratch the contouring,

• convert the cute outfits to just masturbatory fantasy fuel (ahhaha imagine them being able to just walk up to a store employee with some try-ons... okay or maybe don't imagine that, for the poor employee's sake not to mention the actual Women in nearby changing rooms),

that remaining list is a pretty frighteningly accurate characterization of the TIMs themselves. Scary asf but, like every single other religious faith ever coined, they've created their icons/caricatures in their own image.

Fuck all of this fucking shit. Fuck it so hard.

Then go find a butch Woman and give her a hug. She's the very first target for erasure = "trans"ing = conversion therapy (3 names for exactly the same thing).

I would also like to add when you take away the materialism of womanhood (aka sex), all you have left is the social construction of womanhood (sex stereotypes).

This is extremely damaging because while you recognize women being defined by stereotypes as misogynistic and wrong, kids are being taught to think in this gendered framework.

As a result, they are developing more emotional hangups and distress (dysphoria) when not conforming to these stereotypes which leads them to seek hormonal and surgical interventions causing irreversible, life-long harm to their bodies and psyche.

kids are being taught to think in this gendered framework

This is what terrifies me the most. They are being indoctrinated with sexism. Not only will that be damaging to their own self-esteem, but they will likely terrorize women for the rest of their lives. And it is sooo easy to indoctrinate kids, but sooo hard to undo it.

[–] visits_radio 43 points Edited

Like others have mentioned, only a small minority of the trans community believes you need gender dysphoria to be considered transgender and they are called transmedicalist (or derisively called Truscum by the greater trans community).

The vast majority of the trans community and all major trans advocacy groups define transgender as a person whose gender identity is inconsistent with their sex assigned at birth (note the word 'assigned' - a lot of these people believes sex is a spectrum or a social construct and therefore somehow sex is a less legitimate basis of defining men and women in the legal and social spheres than a person's self-perception or feeling)

---Note: when gender identity is protected in law, all of women's sex-based protections can be overridden or dismantled by any man's whim because gender identity is literally the idea that someone's identity should supersede their sex (that is why people use preferred pronouns) so whenever there is a conflict between sex and trans identity, trans identity wins). That means no single-sex spaces for changing rooms, domestic violence shelters, prison, sports, nor single-sex requests for health care providers, forensic rape examiners, security patdowns, etc. and wherever sex becomes relevant in law, the law becomes corrupted (so no accurate statistics, crime reporting, healthcare data, etc.)

Women used to be the undisputed term for adult human females but so-called progressives thought this definition was too exclusionary (overlooking the fact that it includes half of the adult population and has no restrictions on dress, social norms, behavior, appearance, etc). When a defining trait of a category is removed (like sex), a new definition has to be created in order for a category to remain coherent.

And in this case, women are being redefined and it is being redefined on male terms (as their population that is being now included and whose population violated the original definition). You will find men (especially men who do not recognize women as autonomous independent beings separable from themselves) do not come with great definitions for womanhood -to put it lightly their definitions tend to be simple, superficial, insulting, and oversexed. But that is what happens when you make womanhood the intellectual property of men.

Just look at the ‘Danish Girl’. The dude was serious and smart.

Then he decided he was a woman and became a ‘slutty bimbo’. For some reason, he suffered none of the hate that actual women did if they acted this way

So if I'm understanding correctly, the trans community calls ppl who put emphasis on dysphoria a pejorative term even if they are trans? What is the origin of truscum? Thanks for your comment.

Yes, your understanding is correct. Truscum is a shortened name for 'True Scum'. It is an insult to transpeople who believe gender dysphoria is a definitive trait of transgenderism from transpeople who do not believe that.

Only transpeople are called Truscum by the trans community, A person outside the trans community holding the same view is more likely to be called a TERF, a transphobe, a bigot, etc.

Grey rock and grey rock. You say he’s a colleague? Screen shot the creepy shit he says online. Keep a log in case you need to send it to HR for harassment.

That's the thing though, he's always been open about his views on social media... But it's like no one remembers that part?

Doesn’t matter. Screen shot, archive that shit. They can be reminded when he’s acting worse and worse but hard to pin down to fire him.

[–] Turtlefuzz Flairy Godmother 30 points

A common incel-to-TIM "epiphany" is "if you can't find the woman of your dreams, just become the woman of your dreams".

This guy sounds like he's on that track. I would not be surprised if he starts dressing really inappropriately, and starts talking about genitals, and getting a boob job soon.

I agree with Gould2022, don't talk to him. Just ignore him and "grey rock" him.

"After having watched pornography for years while in the Army and being married to a woman who resisted my demands to become the ideal female, I became that female instead." -- James Shupe

Source: https://www.dailysignal.com/2019/03/10/i-was-americas-first-non-binary-person-it-was-all-a-sham/

"...demands to become the ideal female" is that dehumanizing or what, barf.

Yeah I actually didn't say a word to him but he noticed my silence and took it to mean provocation, I guess. I still didn't say anything but I was boiling inside...

[–] Turtlefuzz Flairy Godmother 5 points

You're doing the right thing. Don't say anything to him, don't give him any ammunition to twist against you.

I know it's going to be tough, but you will be tougher.

This guy seems to be a threat to you. He may stalk you, your social media profiles, or try to imitate you or steal your name.

I recommend you read about and employ the grey rock method around him.

Trans"women" are more manly and misogynystic than the general male population, that is saying truly something. I see TIM's as the end of the masculinity spectrum with no empathy, social awarness and tons of fetishism, they are superlative men.

Yes, from what we know about men, from what they have taught us through the society they created (against our will) and the way they behave and speak, the "transwoman" is the logical conclusion of manhood.

A lot of the 'newer' TIMs (not truscum) seem to think it's 'unfair' that woman can behave in stereotypically masculine ways and still be perceived as female, whereas he has to do the whole performance the whole time in order to... what, actually, for real? I mean let's just suppose for a moment that he's not just a sexual fetishist or autogynophile, which seems unlikely, but for the sake of argument. Why would he want to spend his entire life performing as a woman? Even for real women, that's exhausting. Does he feel he's escaping the narrow constraints of masculinity? Or that he was assigned at birth to some club where he doesn't feel he fits in and so he's going to force his way into the only other club available?

I am fairly sure that everyone else in your group finds this as much of a farce as you do, but nobody wants to say it, because, like you, they don't want to be dogpiled, ostracised and excluded. You make it sound as if this is an online group. Do you have any way of knowing whether he's trans in any other part of his life, or whether it's just a little show he's putting on for you and your online group of friends?

The question nowadays really is, why would any man NOT claim to be trans? It wins them gushing adulation and praise, makes them infallible, allows them to control women's reactions to them, and gives them an all-access pass to women's spaces.

This is a group of real life ppl I've known for over ten years. I don't meet up with them due to distance (and COVID) but keep in touch through social media and he's a prolific poster.

[–] butchplease 2 points Edited

Exactly. EXACTLY!!! Like god damn if I were a failed loser man you BET I'd become a "transwoman". It's a real surprise that "cis men" still exist tbh.

because now he's saying I'm less feminine than him and it's not fair... What does that even mean?

It means it's not fair that you're a woman not matter what even if you don't perform the clown world femininity act men invented, and it makes him angry that he has to play dress up so people can pretend to coddle him and perform their clown world virtue signalling, and he knows that. He knows no one will ever see him as a woman, people will just pretend to look woke, and everyone sees you as a woman matter what, even if you don't wear heels and lipstick.

[–] Lilith 27 points Edited

sounds like a case of transmaxxing.. incels who intentionally use trans female status for the perceived benefits.

He's a narcissist. You should be prepared for narc abuse and that begins with his acquiring allies to help him target you for abuse and gaslighting until you validate him/quit.

[–] real_feminist 8 points Edited

OP - you should look up resources for dealing with a narcissist. I think the recommended approach is to make yourself as uninteresting as possible so that they leave you alone. (Edit: I'm now realizing that's the 'grey rock' approach everyone else is mentioning.)

Grey rock is suggested for dealing with the narc themselves. OP is going to need more help in her group dynamics and personal resiliency if he truly commits himself to bullying her through proxy. Grey rock won't help her with the stress of ostracizing.

I was bullied growing up so having to deal with this possibility as an adult is so annoying!

[–] Nene 12 points Edited

Seconding this he's not gonna stop being a misogynistic incel and if you get labelled as a "terf" it's gonna be a white card for him to make your life hell. Be careful OP.

Well, shit. I was perturbed by how he addressed me when I hadn't said a peep. I would like to just continue to ignore him but I feel like that might cause others to talk. :/

nobody knows what you are thinking...just remember that. Be professional and practice words like, "I see." "Let's discuss x project now." "hmmm"

[–] Lilith 0 points Edited

Yes. He already knows. You didn't have to say a word to communicate to him how you feel about his announcement, because even silence is a form of communication.

And his behavior, his response to that silence also communicates something. It communicates a take-no-prisoners approach to resistance. This is part of a very old pattern of behavior that we can see in the TRA community ... and in other places. Communist regimes used to do something similar. They would target and accuse people - people who were too quiet, people who weren't enthusiastic enough. This was used as proof of disloyalty, and those people were turned in to be tortured and killed.

In the TRA community, we see the women who are the most shell shocked, the most afraid, speaking the most loudly to condemn TERFs. We can see them eager to condemn women like Rowling, and eager to be the first to condemn. They have been at the receiving end of pile-ons, or else they've witnessed them. They don't want to be targets. And they, too, know that silence is no protection from abuse.

I'd recommend transferring somewhere else in your company, especially if you notice your coworkers all jumping to support him. Your alternatives are not going to be pleasant.

In the meantime, watch your words and keep your true opinion close to your chest. He'll never be able to prove his suspicions of you, but he will double down on his efforts to get you to out yourself. That's their MO.

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