12 years ago this had already deeply infected lgbt spaces...

I think one of the worst things is it really gives people so little. There is nothing at the heart of it... It's a very superficial vacuous ideology. You just navel gaze about how feminine or masculine you are. And somehow they've built a mountain out of that that you can get lost in for years. It's pretending to be a whole, substantial meal of meaning and identity, but it's like a bunch of candy that makes you sick.

[–] Lipsy i/just/can't 18 points Edited

Heart-rending, lurchingly honest account.

OP is still young, though (30s). I hope they haven't traded the trans delusions for the delusion that this "destroyed life" is unrecoverable, because that's some concentrated condensed bullshit right there if so.

The huge vast majority of OP's adult life still lies ahead, and this extended disaster seems to have imparted some hard-won wisdom. There will be tons and tons and tons of opportunities to rebuild a better life with more mutually supportive relationships.

The only fuckup that'll plunge OP back into another hell of abusive codependency is trying to rush the building of a new life.

....30s. So much time.

I may be biased by the neighborhood grocery running my friends and i have done through covid (for 'young women' and 'young men' ranging from 70ish to 104 years old, a few of whom have successfully rebuilt fulfilling and full lives from heartbreak or tragedy that befell them when they were way, way, WAY past their thirties)... but... yeah. The first day of the rest of your life is today, and in your 30s there is a LOT of rest-of-your-life ahead.

Part of being very online is that you grow up within and normalizing the pedophilic, male-centric views of the anonymous male internet. That means you absorb all of their beliefs about women being only as good as their attractiveness, that women are most sexually attractive 20-24 and 30 is "the wall".

The internet in general really skews young, probably because as you get older you get your own life to worry about, and you learn to not put the things you care about online to be ripped apart.

That struck me as well. I think part of being Very Online is that online communities usually skew very young, and indeed most of the internet talks about 30 as The Wall.

1) A lot of us have nothing to "show" for our 20s. IME it's totally normal, even expected, to change significantly in your mid-late 20s so that the path you were on at 23, you abandon totally at 30. A lot of us make no significant career or financial gains in our 20s. A lot of us leave behind the relationships and social circles of our 20s. We arrive in our 30s without a serious relationship, new in our career and needing a new social scene. Normal.

2) What you have to "show" is not necessarily material. OP has a lot of self-insight and recognises that she is worth more than the abusive relationships she's been in. That kind of insight takes time and experience to develop, and honestly, so many people never develop it. OP's had a shit time, but it's not like it was all wasted, she did learn and grow.

Agreed, I think the internet and social media has convinced younger people that you're supposed to hustle in your 20s to make millions somehow, and then it's just coasting downhill towards the grave after you hit 30, which is absurd. I'm on the edge of 40, and my 30s have been vastly more productive than my 20s, and I can safely say the same for most of my friends. My body is also in better shape because I've focused on regular exercise, my opinions are better informed and more nuanced, and I eat healthier (because my digestion demands it), and just overall, I like myself better. I wish that was the message reaching young women: you can give yourself time to grow to like yourself, and radical surgery and hormones and treatments aren't necessarily the best way to do that.

[–] Lipsy i/just/can't 5 points

Yes to all of this.

Also, please have a good loud belly laugh at my expense, because my own thirties are still in the future. 😂😂 Am kinda curious whether my post above reads any differently (and, if so, how and to what extent) with this extra little tidbit baha

The only way it reads differently to me is it makes you sound wiser. You learned this without having to fuck up your 20s and get over it. :)

This is so, so comforting to read. I honestly thought I was a huge loser and failure for changing career paths when I was 29.

I think that's the first thought of anyone who's been around for a while. But I do understand her feeling of "a big black hole in my life" – I spent my 20s and 30s in a place I call "the dark years". It's shocking to wake up and see how all your friends have matured and built lives for themselves and all you seem to have is the wreck of fever dreams.

With any luck she'll see the wisdom she paid for so dearly. And take her time with a new direction.

I have had some therapy but when I tried to explain to her how my last ex was a transwoman, she could barely understand what I was talking about. I avoided the trans subject after that.

I cannot understand how therapists can be so ill-informed about people's lives. I was stunned when I discovered that a therapist acquaintance had never heard the term "gaslighting".

Yeah, it sounds like that therapist has been practicing under a rock.

Their life is recoverable, but - age 30 is roughly a third of the way through your life. And no guarantee of that - depending on how long you live, maybe that's the halfway point. And 12 years is a significant percentage of a normal lifespan.

I mean I still hope they move on and do something else with the rest of their life, but - 12 years is significant.

Sometimes, I think about all of the time I have spent reading about this topic online. Come on, none of us are innocent either.... I have probably spent more time reading about this issue than any other in the last 5 years.

It does really make you think about what you could have achieved, if you had chosen to focus elsewhere.

(Of course, I'm not saying we shouldn't know what's going on or fight back. Just musing on the nature of being overly-online in general)

I get where you're coming from, but I think it'll always depend on what else you're doing. Everyone needs hobbies and bullshit in their lives. Reading the news, being educated on certain topics, this is a sign of a curious and active mind.

Speaking personally, I've been reading about this topic, and then finding ways to use this topic as an opportunity to practice other skills -- namely, coding. I've learned how to set up relational databases to keep track of all the information I read about. I've learned how to build websites so I can put my research out there. I've grown in so many ways as a technologist by scrutinizing this issue. I'll never regret the amount of time I've spent on the subject, because that time has come with significant gains in my professional skillset.

I've found that anytime I start getting demoralized or too sucked into the Trans Stuff, it helps to go focus on a coding project that helps get the word out. Maybe the work I'm doing isn't moving the needle for anyone but me, but at least I feel like I'm doing something instead of just being part of the captive online audience.

I have been in this for 2 years and the first year especially got me extremely depressed. And yeah i know way too much about horrifying male fetishes now. Also my opinion of males has dropped to an all time low.

However i also learnt a bunch of stuff about women, women's bodies, i learnt to love my body like never before. I learnt more about women's rights and the history of our fight. I got to talk to all kinds of cool women here, on twitter or discord. I peaked my friends and family. I have sky high standards for men now.

For me peaking was overall a good experience!

I feel like through this, I met living, breathing feminists (instead of just people in books) and I couldn't turn away! I think as I positively reframe this I'm going to take your approach. It has been amazing to share commentspaces with so many women I never would have met before.

But is it your only activity (aka hobby). I work plus I have a few hobbies at the moment; printing, dyeing shibori & katazome, sourdough

Been a TERF is not a full time job for me.

It's definitely not! All of those are very cool hobbies, by the way. Shibori dye patterns are so lovely!

I've heard it said that this is exactly the point - that one of the designed aims of the whole trans movement is to make us waste our time and direct our attention to this dangerous nonsense instead of focusing our energy on healing and developing our societies for women and girls.

I think it's more an emergent effect thats socially sanctioned. It benefits the current social order as it utterly fails to challenge it.

"They" use it as a smokescreen for all sorts of issues now, not just women and girls! How many journalists who would be focused on other, more important stories about the reality of corruption in the US and the world have spent years typing away about their deep thoughts on pronouns?!

[–] Gould2022 12 points Edited

Sad read

TIM grooming - mirroring priest groomers. No surprise there.
These kids need interests/hobbies/goals/jobs outside of sexual orientation or gender ideology training/grooming. Time to learn other stuff. Could be a big need for youth activities centres with a diverse range of activities; pottery, woodwork, rock climbing, sailing lessons, music, art, sport, painting, driving lessons etc.

I hope she finds Ovarit. Or a “I was in a cult” recovery community.

I can assure you the whole thing affects boys too. Not in the exact same way but no less importantly. While the effects on boys may well be physically and mentally different, they are still there. I hate to say it, it really should never be a male vs female conversation. More it should be male and female. While there may be different lists going on, neither is more or less important. As the guy below me says, girls are bailing on womanhood. > But men are bailing on manhood too. It's all very fucked up and while the general ideals on how we fix it may differ between the sexes, the quicker we give up the male vs female thing and realise we're all 50% each of the world, the quicker most of what you and others say can be combatted.

Ew, pandering to the MRA. Oh well. Reddit gotta Peddit.

I sucks that there are little boys with homophobic parents who are getting sucked into this as well; however, it’s been statistically proven that young trans identified girls immensely outnumber young trans identified boys which says a lot.

Also, the effects of cross sex hormones for female are much more dangerous, especially in the long term. That comment also doesn’t take into account that girls are opting out of womanhood because they hit puberty and realize that women are still oppressed and treated as sex objects, while some boys and men are opting out of manhood because they don’t like the criticism that men are finally receiving and believe that women live life on easy mode.