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Update 9 Mar 2022: Genspect has since published an official rebuttal to (but not specifically to) Karen's claims that their organization is linked with pedophilia. I've no doubt this will result in Karen doing another "takedown" style video nitpicking every paragraph apart to justify her views, but I'm personally not gonna watch it.

https://genspect.org/genspect-rebuttal/

https://archive.ph/4yA3K

The big “smoking gun”, as it were, is that our founder Stella O’Malley co-hosts a podcast Gender: A Wider Lens with Sasha Ayad. Sasha and Stella are exploring the pioneers of gender research in this podcast, and have carried out a series of interviews with experts in the field, such as Dr Paul Vasey, Dr Ken Zucker, Dr Susan Bradley, Dr Rittakerttu Kaltiala, Dr Annelou de Vries, Dr Thomas Steensma, Dr Michael Bailey and Dr Ray Blanchard, among others. To be explicit, none of the people named in the list above are part of Genspect, nor have they ever had any connection with Genspect. Nonetheless, these interviews have been incredibly informative, and Genspect is proud to sponsor this podcast.

Scientific enquiry is the basis of the most progressive thought, and this podcast is presenting the most wide-ranging and informative takes on gender that we know of. At Genspect, we strongly reject the concept of guilt by association, as would anyone who has any knowledge of history. Merely watching a stage production of The Crucible should suffice to justify this position. Frankly, it’s profoundly inappropriate for anybody to accuse Genspect – or anyone else – of links with so-called “pedo apologists” on such a flimsy basis. We request that we are judged by our work and not by vague and tenuous links to people whom Stella and Sasha have interviewed on their wide-ranging and very helpful podcast. Given that the podcast’s many guests would disagree with one another fervently and passionately on many matters, the flaw in the “guilt by association” model should be clear. Genspect fully supports Stella and Sasha in their excellent work with regard to gender issues.

==Original Post==

I've just found Karen Davis's YT content and I've also been catching up on Exulansic's stuff on Odysee.

I'm having a lot of trouble following the discourse: I have trouble digesting the way Karen presents (she comes on VERY strong and "unmovable" for me?) and I love Exulansic, but I normally have to listen to her videos 2-3 times before I can absorb it.

But now there's that and like... the number of people involved? Genspect, Gender Dysphoria Alliance, Aaron Kimberly, Dennis Noel Kavanagh, Morty Arty... I can't keep up with all the beef going on between all these different people, and somewhere somehow something about CAIS discourse? And Genspect got Exulansic kicked off youtube? And Aaron Kimberly and Dennis Kavanagh have something against Karen? And apparently now PITT (Parents with Inconvenient Truths about Trans)??

All I'm getting is that AK (TIF) and DK (gay) are "GC but still pro-trans" somehow, Genspect, GDA, PITT are "GC but pro-detrans and therefore still retain some TRA ways of thinking", and both Exulansic and KD are like "super hardcore TERFS" hence the clashes, and the CAIS/intersex community are mad at Exulansic for saying CAIS are male.

I just.... my fucking normie head OTL

Apologies if this isn't the right circle, I wasn't sure where else to post it.

**Update 9 Mar 2022:** Genspect has since published an official rebuttal to (but not specifically to) Karen's claims that their organization is linked with pedophilia. I've no doubt this will result in Karen doing another "takedown" style video nitpicking every paragraph apart to justify her views, but I'm personally not gonna watch it. https://genspect.org/genspect-rebuttal/ https://archive.ph/4yA3K >The big “smoking gun”, as it were, is that our founder Stella O’Malley co-hosts a podcast Gender: A Wider Lens with Sasha Ayad. Sasha and Stella are exploring the pioneers of gender research in this podcast, and have carried out a series of interviews with experts in the field, such as Dr Paul Vasey, Dr Ken Zucker, Dr Susan Bradley, Dr Rittakerttu Kaltiala, Dr Annelou de Vries, Dr Thomas Steensma, Dr Michael Bailey and Dr Ray Blanchard, among others. **To be explicit, none of the people named in the list above are part of Genspect, nor have they ever had any connection with Genspect.** Nonetheless, these interviews have been incredibly informative, and Genspect is proud to sponsor this podcast. >Scientific enquiry is the basis of the most progressive thought, and this podcast is presenting the most wide-ranging and informative takes on gender that we know of. **At Genspect, we strongly reject the concept of guilt by association, as would anyone who has any knowledge of history.** Merely watching a stage production of The Crucible should suffice to justify this position. Frankly, it’s profoundly inappropriate for anybody to accuse Genspect – or anyone else – of links with so-called “pedo apologists” on such a flimsy basis. **We request that we are judged by our work and not by vague and tenuous links to people whom Stella and Sasha have interviewed on their wide-ranging and very helpful podcast.** Given that the podcast’s many guests would disagree with one another fervently and passionately on many matters, the flaw in the “guilt by association” model should be clear. Genspect fully supports Stella and Sasha in their excellent work with regard to gender issues. ==Original Post== I've just found [Karen Davis's YT content](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYj9xEuFEQORfVK3k1kPxQw) and I've also been catching up on [Exulansic's stuff on Odysee](https://odysee.com/@Exulansic:d). I'm having a lot of trouble following the discourse: I have trouble digesting the way Karen presents (she comes on VERY strong and "unmovable" for me?) and I love Exulansic, but I normally have to listen to her videos 2-3 times before I can absorb it. But now there's that and like... the number of people involved? Genspect, Gender Dysphoria Alliance, Aaron Kimberly, Dennis Noel Kavanagh, Morty Arty... I can't keep up with all the beef going on between all these different people, and somewhere somehow something about CAIS discourse? And Genspect got Exulansic kicked off youtube? And Aaron Kimberly and Dennis Kavanagh have something against Karen? And apparently now PITT (Parents with Inconvenient Truths about Trans)?? All I'm getting is that AK (TIF) and DK (gay) are "GC but still pro-trans" somehow, Genspect, GDA, PITT are "GC but pro-detrans and therefore still retain some TRA ways of thinking", and both Exulansic and KD are like "super hardcore TERFS" hence the clashes, and the CAIS/intersex community are mad at Exulansic for saying CAIS are male. I just.... my fucking normie head OTL Apologies if this isn't the right circle, I wasn't sure where else to post it.

30 comments

Unfortunately, commercialized social media platforms thrive on engagement, and drama is peak engagement. Even if people are cognizant of that or don't make money off of it, these platforms are structured to promote drama.

The core issues are actually worth discussing though. How to separate trans from DSD? Complete ban on childhood "transition"? How to recognize a child who identifies as trans because of family abuse? Are paraphilias innate and immutable? (...)

For the last question for example, this appears to be the position of leading (male) sexologists. While they agree on the existence of AGP, they support "transition" because they think the paraphilia can't be changed. They think pedophiles need "support" networks. I guess going into sexology requires or fosters sympathy for male perversion. But it's up to others to reduce the harm resulting from it.

That's actually an important issue and raising it isn't the problem. Rather I think it's the form in which these debates take place.So it's not surprising there's too much "content" for you to keep up.

I tried to enter the field of sexology professionally as a researcher and.... It's basically impossible to get into that field professionally safely while contesting this stuff. Critical sexology is basically our only hope and doing research outside of academia.