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Update 9 Mar 2022: Genspect has since published an official rebuttal to (but not specifically to) Karen's claims that their organization is linked with pedophilia. I've no doubt this will result in Karen doing another "takedown" style video nitpicking every paragraph apart to justify her views, but I'm personally not gonna watch it.

https://genspect.org/genspect-rebuttal/

https://archive.ph/4yA3K

The big “smoking gun”, as it were, is that our founder Stella O’Malley co-hosts a podcast Gender: A Wider Lens with Sasha Ayad. Sasha and Stella are exploring the pioneers of gender research in this podcast, and have carried out a series of interviews with experts in the field, such as Dr Paul Vasey, Dr Ken Zucker, Dr Susan Bradley, Dr Rittakerttu Kaltiala, Dr Annelou de Vries, Dr Thomas Steensma, Dr Michael Bailey and Dr Ray Blanchard, among others. To be explicit, none of the people named in the list above are part of Genspect, nor have they ever had any connection with Genspect. Nonetheless, these interviews have been incredibly informative, and Genspect is proud to sponsor this podcast.

Scientific enquiry is the basis of the most progressive thought, and this podcast is presenting the most wide-ranging and informative takes on gender that we know of. At Genspect, we strongly reject the concept of guilt by association, as would anyone who has any knowledge of history. Merely watching a stage production of The Crucible should suffice to justify this position. Frankly, it’s profoundly inappropriate for anybody to accuse Genspect – or anyone else – of links with so-called “pedo apologists” on such a flimsy basis. We request that we are judged by our work and not by vague and tenuous links to people whom Stella and Sasha have interviewed on their wide-ranging and very helpful podcast. Given that the podcast’s many guests would disagree with one another fervently and passionately on many matters, the flaw in the “guilt by association” model should be clear. Genspect fully supports Stella and Sasha in their excellent work with regard to gender issues.

==Original Post==

I've just found Karen Davis's YT content and I've also been catching up on Exulansic's stuff on Odysee.

I'm having a lot of trouble following the discourse: I have trouble digesting the way Karen presents (she comes on VERY strong and "unmovable" for me?) and I love Exulansic, but I normally have to listen to her videos 2-3 times before I can absorb it.

But now there's that and like... the number of people involved? Genspect, Gender Dysphoria Alliance, Aaron Kimberly, Dennis Noel Kavanagh, Morty Arty... I can't keep up with all the beef going on between all these different people, and somewhere somehow something about CAIS discourse? And Genspect got Exulansic kicked off youtube? And Aaron Kimberly and Dennis Kavanagh have something against Karen? And apparently now PITT (Parents with Inconvenient Truths about Trans)??

All I'm getting is that AK (TIF) and DK (gay) are "GC but still pro-trans" somehow, Genspect, GDA, PITT are "GC but pro-detrans and therefore still retain some TRA ways of thinking", and both Exulansic and KD are like "super hardcore TERFS" hence the clashes, and the CAIS/intersex community are mad at Exulansic for saying CAIS are male.

I just.... my fucking normie head OTL

Apologies if this isn't the right circle, I wasn't sure where else to post it.

**Update 9 Mar 2022:** Genspect has since published an official rebuttal to (but not specifically to) Karen's claims that their organization is linked with pedophilia. I've no doubt this will result in Karen doing another "takedown" style video nitpicking every paragraph apart to justify her views, but I'm personally not gonna watch it. https://genspect.org/genspect-rebuttal/ https://archive.ph/4yA3K >The big “smoking gun”, as it were, is that our founder Stella O’Malley co-hosts a podcast Gender: A Wider Lens with Sasha Ayad. Sasha and Stella are exploring the pioneers of gender research in this podcast, and have carried out a series of interviews with experts in the field, such as Dr Paul Vasey, Dr Ken Zucker, Dr Susan Bradley, Dr Rittakerttu Kaltiala, Dr Annelou de Vries, Dr Thomas Steensma, Dr Michael Bailey and Dr Ray Blanchard, among others. **To be explicit, none of the people named in the list above are part of Genspect, nor have they ever had any connection with Genspect.** Nonetheless, these interviews have been incredibly informative, and Genspect is proud to sponsor this podcast. >Scientific enquiry is the basis of the most progressive thought, and this podcast is presenting the most wide-ranging and informative takes on gender that we know of. **At Genspect, we strongly reject the concept of guilt by association, as would anyone who has any knowledge of history.** Merely watching a stage production of The Crucible should suffice to justify this position. Frankly, it’s profoundly inappropriate for anybody to accuse Genspect – or anyone else – of links with so-called “pedo apologists” on such a flimsy basis. **We request that we are judged by our work and not by vague and tenuous links to people whom Stella and Sasha have interviewed on their wide-ranging and very helpful podcast.** Given that the podcast’s many guests would disagree with one another fervently and passionately on many matters, the flaw in the “guilt by association” model should be clear. Genspect fully supports Stella and Sasha in their excellent work with regard to gender issues. ==Original Post== I've just found [Karen Davis's YT content](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYj9xEuFEQORfVK3k1kPxQw) and I've also been catching up on [Exulansic's stuff on Odysee](https://odysee.com/@Exulansic:d). I'm having a lot of trouble following the discourse: I have trouble digesting the way Karen presents (she comes on VERY strong and "unmovable" for me?) and I love Exulansic, but I normally have to listen to her videos 2-3 times before I can absorb it. But now there's that and like... the number of people involved? Genspect, Gender Dysphoria Alliance, Aaron Kimberly, Dennis Noel Kavanagh, Morty Arty... I can't keep up with all the beef going on between all these different people, and somewhere somehow something about CAIS discourse? And Genspect got Exulansic kicked off youtube? And Aaron Kimberly and Dennis Kavanagh have something against Karen? And apparently now PITT (Parents with Inconvenient Truths about Trans)?? All I'm getting is that AK (TIF) and DK (gay) are "GC but still pro-trans" somehow, Genspect, GDA, PITT are "GC but pro-detrans and therefore still retain some TRA ways of thinking", and both Exulansic and KD are like "super hardcore TERFS" hence the clashes, and the CAIS/intersex community are mad at Exulansic for saying CAIS are male. I just.... my fucking normie head OTL Apologies if this isn't the right circle, I wasn't sure where else to post it.

30 comments

The internet and social media platforms tend to create and incentivize drama, which is unfortunate and actually a danger to our long-term success. We need people to be making content that explains these confusing issues to normies in a way that is not alienating or impenetrable. The drama may drive views in the short-term but in the long term this stuff will repel people from joining our movement for reality and common sense.

When I was first peaking two years ago, I found Arty Morty's videos and watching them allowed me to start to question things without thinking I was an evil bigot.

If I had gone straight to Exulansic from the beginning (if her videos had existed then) I don't know how I would have reacted. Of course, now I think she's brilliant and I am so angry that she was banned. (Although I still don't think her position on CAIS is humane or strategic.) But thinking back on my own trajectory, I see how important it is to have moderate voices who can help people understand reality without throwing them right into the deep end. We can never forget how shocking it is to deprogram yourself from this cult.

I'm very disturbed by the trend to police the purity of GC leaders. Institutions like Genspect and PITT are doing important work breaking through to mental health professionals, journalists, and other leaders. Certain opportunists out there are seeking to build clout by stirring up drama with these groups and IMO it's very counterproductive. A movement for reality and common sense needs to be somewhat mainstream and diverse, not an insular subculture full of conflict and personal beefs.