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28 comments

[–] itsnotaboutewe 37 points (+37|-0) Edited

I don't think there are very many honestly successful transitions. I think in this case the older trans person was probably very unhappy with his own transition and was encouraging this young man down the same path hoping the young man would have a better outcome so the older man could live vicariously through him. He was creating a younger version of himself that he could identify with and fantasize that he had been just as pretty and happy as his young friend would surely be. It seems it is only the old fashioned transsexuals who say that transitioning is a last resort for the handful of truly dysphoric people who just can't cope any other way. Misery loves company and any trans individual pushing someone else down this tragic path is most probably miserable himself.

[–] Perseph265 28 points (+28|-0)

In the long-term studies, wasn't the clinical success rate (lasting improvement of patient psychological state) of SRS something like 3%? I thought that was why Johns-Hopkins stopped doing it (at least for a while). The success rate was not only terrible, in the other 97% it often made things worse.

[–] itsnotaboutewe 26 points (+26|-0)

I can't remember the number but it was vanishingly small. I was talking to a surgeon many years ago about how we measure the success or otherwise of a particular surgery and she admitted that most surgeons are so busy admiring their handiwork that they fail to gauge whether the surgery changed the patient's life for the better or worse. They figure if the patient was referred to a surgeon then surgery was required so they didn't explore any other treatment options. I've never understood why a doctor would choose to treat a psychological problem with invasive, irreversible surgery.

[–] littleowl12 11 points (+11|-0)

Surgery makes an enormous amount of money. Psychiatrists are very wealthy in the US, but surgeons are multi-millionaires. One phalloplasty can cost about 100K. Some of that is for the hospital care, but the bulk goes to the surgeon. Since TIMs especially tend to be plastic surgery addicts as much as their money allows, they are predictable customers.

And there are a lot of surgeons who are ONLY surgeons. It's all they know how to do. They don't know shit about psychiatric disorders beyond what might land them in legal hot water. They don't know any ethics beyond their training.

[–] blahblahgcer 18 points (+18|-0)

Someone did a study and recently recanted saying that srs had no positive effect on mental health.

[–] Womancup 15 points (+15|-0)

It was a correction to a study that initially found positive effects but after many letters to the editor it was clear that the data didn't match the conclusion, so they were forced to issue a correction. Here it is I have bookmarked it, so that I can have it handy:

https://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/doi/10.1176/appi.ajp.2020.1778correction

[–] Amareldys 11 points (+11|-0)

Is there a page with all the studies on it?

[–] Perseph265 3 points (+3|-0)

I could swear I've seen an article with links to both major long-term studies, but I can't for the life of me remember what it was called or what website I found it on.

[–] [Deleted] 33 points (+33|-0) Edited

I don't necessarily have pity on TIMs, but this article made me sad. The regret this gay man feels now, with a mutilated body... it's infuriating to know that a gross adult TIM led him to this path by sponsoring his transition behind his parents back, when he was probably too vulnerable to recognize that that was nothing wrong on being a gnc gay man... How many TIMs are out there doing the same with young boys and girls?!

Edit: grammar

[–] Morningmist 1 points (+1|-0)

They aren't even doing this covertly either but with state sponsorship.

[–] RawSienna 32 points (+32|-0)

The piece of shit old trans preyed on the kid.

This has to stop. Grooming should be illegal. Why the fuck isn’t it? It’s interfering in the welfare and development of a child. Sounds like a goddamned crime to me.

[–] DaughtersOfLilith 22 points (+22|-0)

Grooming should be illegal. Why the fuck isn’t it?

Because too many lawmakers and politicians benefit from it. They protect their own.

[–] goldenheartcc 29 points (+29|-0)

I.... like you, OP, don't really have pity for TiMs (or any males, in general, since they have the power in society to deem what is good and acceptable) but. my heart hurt the entire time. And, while a massive wave of detransitioners and "sex change regretters" (in comparison to the number of trans identified people or those who underwent cosmetic surgery) will hopefully help peak normies... I fucking wish it didn't come at the expense of anyone's livelihoods - ESPECIALLY fellow women (the TiFs). It is going to be so sad and its going to get "worse"

[–] KissMyOvaries 20 points (+21|-1)

Not really sure why this account is being discounted because the author isn’t showing emotion.

This criticism comes from a very narrow view of the world.

Those being critical in this way, I urge you to do research into trauma. It’s two million percent common for trauma victims to be able to rattle off their trauma with no emotion. Shit, some of us will do this to anyone and everyone who will listen.

And then of course there is the issue of young autistic people being particularly vulnerable to being groomed in this way. This is another explanation as to why the author isn’t emotional.

Yes you are free to be critical, but your criticism comes with significant blind spots.

[–] KissMyOvaries 17 points (+18|-1)

AND I would like to add, that it’s like not believing a rape victim because she isn’t showing any emotion when she is recounting the events of her rape.

[–] MiMi2013 14 points (+14|-0) Edited

Damn. Waaaay back in the early 1990s, I read a novel that had as a minor sideplot a married pair of sociopaths who gaslit a young gay man into thinking himnself trans ; after he had the surgery, they mocked and belittled him for getting it till he committed suicide.

I thought this was ludicrous. No gay man would fall for something that outrageous.No surgeon would just perform a surgery like that willy nilly ; they would insist on lots of psychological counseling. I thought the novel stupid and farfetched, so I dumped it as a tradein at a used bookstore.

I hate this year, and I am terrified all subsequent years are going to be even worse.

ETA : The novel is Frenzy, by Rex Miller (1989)

My heart breaks for anyone groomed into being harmed and mutilated like this, especially gays and lesbians pressured into full on transition.

[–] Marmorsymphata 6 points (+13|-7) Edited

The prose in this is very, very weird. Overly clinical yet informal at the same time. Reads like an outline/shopping list of events with no emotion or personal touch aside from the most politically relevant portions about jarring disgust for vaginoplasty-- like someone was making shit up but didn't finish it. For example, why is no focus whatsoever given to his loss of manhood or the destruction of his identity as a gay man? The lineup of priorities does not make sense. And you'd think someone with personal experience would have something of greater substance to say, more chutzpah to their entreaties to others. I have a hard time believing it's legit.

We can't be uncritical about shit just because it confirms what we believe. This reads like boilerplate propaganda.

[–] vauqueline 16 points (+16|-0)

I've written similarly toned accounts of traumatizing events I have undergone in my life before. My goal was to communicate what was done to me while also not diving too deeply into the pain caused by those events, because I still needed to function throughout my life, but also because by then, I had learned the hard way that displays of emotion would elicit reactions of disgust in the person I was breaking down around (or, in some circumstances, signal my vulnerability to an opportunistic predator). I would not use a somewhat dissociated tone of a piece of writing describing years of neglect and abuse as necessarily evidence of its falsity.

[–] BathMat 6 points (+6|-0) Edited

Same. There are no ways to talk about some things, sometimes all you can do is list the facts. And sometimes even make a joke or laugh 'inappropriately' to try and make it easier on the person that you know doesn't want to hear what you have to say. How could someone possibly write about having healthy testicles removed in a way that communicates what that has meant to them? People can keep on going through extreme difficulties, and taking an outside perspective on yourself is sometimes how.

[–] thedarkhorse 4 points (+6|-2)

It is a bit dry. I wonder how the website owner checks their sources. It would probably be quite easy to get receipts.

[–] littleowl12 5 points (+5|-0)

Trans activists are going to dismiss this "Oh, yeah, we all heard this in the 80s and 90s that gay people are recruiting youngsters, it's just the same thing applied to us, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah we're the real victims, here."

Except you've gone to extreme lengths to get your bullshit into public schools as quickly as you could, didn't you? You scream at any criticism or skepticism of your extraordinary claims.

And now that the T pretty much dominates the LGBT movement, what's going to happen when mainstream parents run out of patience for this shit?

Lesbians are acutely aware of what's going on, but gay men need to wake up and see how much they have on the line, too.

Contrary to other commenters, I felt the sadness and sober reality dripping all over this account. It must have been quite emotional to see it all laid out this way for him. I suspect also it needed to be this way to protect him from including any identifying details.

This wasn't just some TIM, this person was groomed from the time he was a child. He never had a chance. I feel extremely sad for him.

[–] crodish 4 points (+4|-0)

This is fucking depressing to read. Almost all of my anger went towards that initial transwoman who groomed a young teenager to believe his body was wrong. I hated that that transwoman committed suicide for multiple reasons: they were in their own private hell above all and wanted to end that pain, and while I understand and sympathize that, it doesn't dislodge the sheer hate I have for what his direct actions did to this young man.

I feel sad for the parents too. They were very cautious about getting a gender-neutral therapist, and I really wish it had ended there.

Fuck, this letter is just depressing. I thank him for sharing his story and I pray he finds his peace.

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